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Sabres Management and Coaching Thread

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Jame said:
Going in to the 2013/Risto draft, Regier was still talking about re-signing Miller and Vanek. He was totally in rebuild mode. He was never a tanker.

Yes, he talked about getting to the prime area / top 3-5 of any draft (through the rebuild process), but he was never a tanker. That was all Murray.
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Vanek was traded by Regier. He was tanking but probably would've screwed it up.
 
Jame said:
Going in to the 2013/Risto draft, Regier was still talking about re-signing Miller and Vanek. He was totally in rebuild mode. He was never a tanker.

Yes, he talked about getting to the prime area / top 3-5 of any draft (through the rebuild process), but he was never a tanker. That was all Murray.
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I don't remember there being any serious contract efforts on Regier's part there. Every GM pays lip service to their vets if they're asked the right question, so you'd have to point me to what you're talking about specifically.

Getting to the prime area of the draft means different things in different years. In 2014, it did mean top 3-5. We walked into draft day having no idea how picks 1-4 would play out, and three years later, pick #8 is in the middle of that conversation, too. In 2015, everybody knew it meant top 2.

So just saying the same conclusion about the tank being all Murray isn't sealing it for me. I thought I knew Darcy's plan the day he was fired, based on his actions, and I was pleased as a peach that Murray continued to execute it.
 
I wonder how many people actually think the tank was a failure? It doesn't even matter who started it either.

I actually think the tank was a great success. Building blocks are there.
 
Der Jaeger said:
:huh:

GMTM traded away useful players to secure the worst record. Both Flynn and Mitchell played well for the Sabres, though in 3rd and sometimes 2nd line roles for the team. Mitchell especially helped the team win by providing stability at center.

But you trade them away in a tank where McEichel is the goal. All day. Getting Eichel is far more important than retaining two 4th liners.
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I agree. They were useful players, especially Mitchell. I used their role as the best 4th line in the league as having a positive impact on the team they play for. He made the team worse in order to try to get McEichel.
 
I miss Regier. I am nervous everytime Murray makes a trade. Reiger set this team up beautifully. We should have brought in an experienced GM. This team was loaded with picks and prospects. All Murray had to do was make the picks and the team would be in great shape.
 
The impression I got was that DR was burning the team down too. He just decided to fill it with his teenage 1st rounders while doing so. Fans hella revolted, he fired Ruff, and was let go himself.

History perhaps will show us that at least 3 of Risto, Z, Girgs and Grigs shouldn't have been in the NHL yet.
 
HeartforReinheart said:
I miss Regier. I am nervous everytime Murray makes a trade. Reiger set this team up beautifully. We should have brought in an experienced GM. This team was loaded with picks and prospects. All Murray had to do was make the picks and the team would be in great shape.
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Yes, I too miss Darcy and his choice of coach to develop these prospects that he recently drafted and brought up too soon and put them in the wrong leagues to develop as well...
 
I like most things Murray does. Mistakes he's made I can see the reasoning behind it and can't argue in theory.

But if he doesn't fire Bylsma this summer he can burn in the riots too for all I care
 
OkimLom said:
Yes, I too miss Darcy and his choice of coach to develop these prospects that he recently drafted and brought up too soon and put them in the wrong leagues to develop as well...
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Which prospect and what league are you talking about?
 
HeartforReinheart said:
I miss Regier. I am nervous everytime Murray makes a trade. Reiger set this team up beautifully. We should have brought in an experienced GM. This team was loaded with picks and prospects. All Murray had to do was make the picks and the team would be in great shape.
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Utter nonsense
 
haseoke39 said:
I don't remember there being any serious contract efforts on Regier's part there. Every GM pays lip service to their vets if they're asked the right question, so you'd have to point me to what you're talking about specifically.

Getting to the prime area of the draft means different things in different years. In 2014, it did mean top 3-5. We walked into draft day having no idea how picks 1-4 would play out, and three years later, pick #8 is in the middle of that conversation, too. In 2015, everybody knew it meant top 2.

So just saying the same conclusion about the tank being all Murray isn't sealing it for me. I thought I knew Darcy's plan the day he was fired, based on his actions, and I was pleased as a peach that Murray continued to execute it.
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Tim Murray did not pay lip service

You thought you knew Darcy's plan, then you saw what Murray truly had to do to guarantee mceichel, and you objectively look back and realize, yea... Regier was never that committed to actually tanking.

Murray showed us the difference between rebuilding and tanking.
 
I mean, Regier got fired because the on ice optics were even worse than with Nolan when he finally pulled the chute. I don't think he combats the Arizona tank nearly as aggressively though, and that might have been the difference.

The issues with Darcy were putzing around rushing dudes to pro leagues because he wanted every last lottery ticket with the Rochester core before fully committing to the tank, and being absolutely trash at player acquisition since the lockout. His positive adds:
Ehrhoff
Zubrus
Grier
Leopold
...Regehr/Rivet?

That's the list. And the bottom end of his rosters were arguably worse than Murray's.
 
Jame said:
You thought you knew Darcy's plan, then you saw what Murray truly had to do to guarantee mceichel, and you objectively look back and realize, yea... Regier was never that committed to actually tanking.

Murray showed us the difference between rebuilding and tanking.
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That's one set of assumptions.
 
haseoke39 said:
That's one set of assumptions.
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Sure. The logical one. As opposed to the assumption that Regier was fired for successfully tanking, while a president of hockey operations who was against tanking was brought in, and then hired a guy who would return to the tank causing said president to quit

Again, without a good definition of rebuilding vs tanking, I can see how the lines can get blurred.
 
Jame said:
Sure. The logical one. As opposed to the assumption that Regier was fired for successfully tanking, while a president of hockey operations who was against tanking was brought in, and then hired a guy who would return to the tank causing said president to quit

Again, without a good definition of rebuilding vs tanking, I can see how the lines can get blurred.
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That's not what I lack. I articulated a fine definition of tanking for you earlier.

Your summation of events just calls to attention that the team hierarchy was confused for a moment, which we all knew. For all we know, lafontaine never sold the pegulas on any specific team building plan and regier was fired because the fan base was so disaffected there had to be a purge. No one would accuse the pegulas of clear or consistent leadership.
 
haseoke39 said:
That's not what I lack. I articulated a fine definition of tanking for you earlier.

Your summation of events just calls to attention that the team hierarchy was confused for a moment, which we all knew. For all we know, lafontaine never sold the pegulas on any specific team building plan and regier was fired because the fan base was so disaffected there had to be a purge. No one would accuse the pegulas of clear or consistent leadership.
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You did not.
 
Really, the idea that regier was fired for losing only to bring on an anti tank guy who would, two months later be forced out in favor of a guy committed to losing requires every bit as hare brained a theory for what the pegulas were doing as the theory that Darcy was sacked because the fans were shouting down the pa announcer with fire Darcy chants.

Either way, it was a confused time for team leadership, and pointing to lafkntaine as proof of anything really ignores how fleeting and feckless his presence on the team turned out to be. If you need proof that **** was disorganized, just remember that lafkntaine himself hired Murray and somehow didn't know his philosophy in he process.
 
haseoke39 said:
Transforming the roster with the primary goal of getting to the top of the draft, not acquire futures or get younger. What's your conniption over this.
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That's not tanking.
Tanking is actively working towards as bad a roster as possible with the primary goal of the season being to lose as much as possible.

Tanking is not converting current assets to future assets with the understanding that you won't be very competitive... that's rebuilding


There's a distinct difference
 
haseoke39 said:
Really, the idea that regier was fired for losing only to bring on an anti tank guy who would, two months later be forced out in favor of a guy committed to losing requires every bit as hare brained a theory for what the pegulas were doing as the theory that Darcy was sacked because the fans were shouting down the pa announcer with fire Darcy chants.

Either way, it was a confused time for team leadership, and pointing to lafkntaine as proof of anything really ignores how fleeting and feckless his presence on the team turned out to be. If you need proof that **** was disorganized, just remember that lafkntaine himself hired Murray and somehow didn't know his philosophy in he process.
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I don't think it's hair brained for Lafontaine to sell one approach, and then have Murray sell another.
 
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