Flynn and Mitchell actually went on to become 2/3rds of the best 4th line in the league. Genius? No. They were obvious trades to make that made the team worse.
Sabres Management and Coaching Thread
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Flynn and Mitchell actually went on to become 2/3rds of the best 4th line in the league. Genius? No. They were obvious trades to make that made the team worse.
- Aug 19, 2005
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Stewart and Neuvirth both stem from the Miller/Ott trade, which also brought in a 1st rounder (used to acquire Kane), Carrier, and two 3rd rounders (Fitzgerald).
Stewart was moved to Minny for 2017 2nd rounder. We still have that pick.
And yes, Chad Johnson too.
Sabre Dance
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Exactly. That's all they were. Deadline deals. Trading those players was not about the tank. Trading Myers, Stafford, and Enroth was. The Sabres were not in danger of losing last place when the real tank trade was made.
I hate the fact people defend Murray with the "he secured Eichel" argument. Eichel was secured by ownership and a fanbase that supported losing to win. Murray had nothing to do with it. Murray's job was to rebuild after the tank, that's all we should focus on.
OkimLom
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- May 3, 2010
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Where did I say ANYTHING like that?
I gave factual statements, and somehow you pulled THAT out of it?
he secured Eichel by taking the tank path from the beginning
Had Pat Lafontaine had his way, we would've re-signed Ryan Miller, and never tanked. Murray won the argument, and secured Eichel.
You don't like the argument, because it's true.
Husko
Registered User
Wish I had a spreadsheet that tracked where posters fell over time on the big ticket issues. Would be interesting to see how many camps have stuck together on different issues. Where did Drury supporters fall on the 3-way goalie dispute? How do the anti-tankers feel about GMTM now? How do those that defender Nolan feel about Bylsma? Etc. etc. Would be neat to see if there are trends.
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So you weren't making a point? Just stating that Arizona closed the gap?
OK, yeah Arizona closed the gap. That's a fact. 12 point cushion down to 4 at the deadline. Arizona lost 8 straight. Sabres were getting thoroughly outplayed and coming away with points which closed the gap.
I don't think enough emphasis has been given to the expansion draft when talking about Murray.
Go back to October 1st, before the season began and I think we were ok with a top four, if healthy, of Risto, Bogo, Kulikov and McCabe. Three of which were semi proven. It's a decent top four. Kulikov getting injured made Gorges indespensible. Could Murray have brought in another D? Sure, but at what cost, and more importantly, they would've needed expansion protection.
I still think of Murray as a mad genius that analyzes over and over. The expansion draft was on his mind with each move, or non move. Kulikov doesn't get hurt, our defense is ok. Not contender worthy but enough for playoffs. Same thing goes with Eichel.
The only move Murray has made that I would not have is Lerhner.
As for Blysma, he needs to go. If the players haven't bought into what you're selling, you need to go. Most are under 25, you would think they'd be full of happiness but does anyone watch the games and see happy players???? To me, it's as simple as that. Forget the x/o's, or the need to start with ROR/Eichel/Reinhart down the middle, the guy is lame. This is a physical game, where is his fire? The players simply are not playing for him.
I go back to the PP, when you let our skilled guys go out and play/create on their own, they're pretty darn good.
Everything about Blysma is wrong to me, everything. On top of that, is he pissing off our two #2 picks???? Will that cause damage when it comes to resigning in Buffalo? He needs to go asap.
I'm still in the like when it comes to Murray. I'm still going with he's set us up perfectly for the expansion draft, where we are going to loose a bad contract. And as soon as that draft is over, Kane is being moved for D. At that point, with a new coach of course, we'll be in the playoffs next year. Actually, a pretty decent, fun team next year.
Go back to October 1st, before the season began and I think we were ok with a top four, if healthy, of Risto, Bogo, Kulikov and McCabe. Three of which were semi proven. It's a decent top four. Kulikov getting injured made Gorges indespensible. Could Murray have brought in another D? Sure, but at what cost, and more importantly, they would've needed expansion protection.
I still think of Murray as a mad genius that analyzes over and over. The expansion draft was on his mind with each move, or non move. Kulikov doesn't get hurt, our defense is ok. Not contender worthy but enough for playoffs. Same thing goes with Eichel.
The only move Murray has made that I would not have is Lerhner.
As for Blysma, he needs to go. If the players haven't bought into what you're selling, you need to go. Most are under 25, you would think they'd be full of happiness but does anyone watch the games and see happy players???? To me, it's as simple as that. Forget the x/o's, or the need to start with ROR/Eichel/Reinhart down the middle, the guy is lame. This is a physical game, where is his fire? The players simply are not playing for him.
I go back to the PP, when you let our skilled guys go out and play/create on their own, they're pretty darn good.
Everything about Blysma is wrong to me, everything. On top of that, is he pissing off our two #2 picks???? Will that cause damage when it comes to resigning in Buffalo? He needs to go asap.
I'm still in the like when it comes to Murray. I'm still going with he's set us up perfectly for the expansion draft, where we are going to loose a bad contract. And as soon as that draft is over, Kane is being moved for D. At that point, with a new coach of course, we'll be in the playoffs next year. Actually, a pretty decent, fun team next year.
OkimLom
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Would be easy to track. I mean nobody can change their mind/opinion right?
I will guarantee, that personally, my thoughts from 2013 on how and what I wanted from the team are different than what I think nowadays.
Sabre Dance
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he secured Eichel by taking the tank path from the beginning
Had Pat Lafontaine had his way, we would've re-signed Ryan Miller, and never tanked. Murray won the argument, and secured Eichel.
You don't like the argument, because it's true.
The owner was already committed before Murray and Lafontaine. You're creating a story.
Ryan Miller was not going to stop the tank either. Lafontaine would have had to do a lot more.
- Aug 19, 2005
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Miller had a moster season for Vancouver in 2015-16. If you don't think his presence in Buffalo doesn't secure at least 3 more total points for the season, thus forcing us to miss out on drafting Eichel, then you cray-cray.
No, that's not objectively not true. Terry Pegula's first hire to turn the franchise around was NOT on board with the tank. Lafontaine was taking a "change the culture" approach, they were going to rebuild, NOT tank.
Murray came in and put the tank in place and Lafontaine quit because of it.
You don't seem to understand the huge difference between selling off and rebuilding, and tanking.
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Now that I think about it Miller was probably good for 5 more wins that year and finish 3rd which would have secured us McDavid.
. It's fun creating stories.Or both.
Carrier-O'Reilly-Nylander
Girgensons-Eichel-Rodrigues
Kane-Reinhart-Gionta
Smith-Ennis-Moulson
Deslauriers scratched
Now that I think about it Miller was probably good for 5 more wins that year and finish 3rd which would have secured us McDavid.
At least you just admitted that Murray made the decision to tank
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Tim Murray takes over as GM in Ottawa and ruins them instead of Buffalo in my story.
You're just saying random things at this point. Do you even have a point other than "Tim Murry sux" at this point?
Sabre Dance
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I created a story like others were doing.
The facts are the tank was a commitment by ownership and the fanbase long before anyone knew who Tim Murray was.
Sabretooth
Registered User
I'm more interested in how people arrive at their opinions, regardless of whether they changed. Even the seemingly irrational opinions.
Take the opinion some have that murray should be fired. What got those people to that opinion? Why do people think that how the team performs in a meaningless game at the end of the season adds to or subtracts from their opinion of murray? A get that a lot of it is just reactionary frustration but, we've known since the trade deadline at least what this team was and where it was going the rest of the seasons (no where). So here we are going no where "RAWR FIRE MURRAY WORST GM EVAH" as if murray was supposed to do something between the TDL and now to change that.
It's not surprising or unexpected but I still can't make sense of it. Are these thoughts people have always had and just now are frustrated enough or confident enough in the opinion to voice it, or was last nights game specifically really something that some people are evaluating murray on?
It's a fact because you say so? It was just explained to you how that's not a fact.
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Wrong.
Poster doesn't understand the difference between ownership committing to a rebuild under previous front office (Regier), and committing to an actual Tank job under Murray. The McEichel strategy was Murray's. Lafontaine was not on board. Murray won the argument, and implemented the plan. Lafontaine quit.
I think the odds of you being correct on something by accident are actually pretty low, you actually put effort in to being wrong.
haseoke39
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- Mar 29, 2011
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I really don't know if that's true, outside of Lafontaine not liking it. Whether Darcy was setting up the tank is speculation, but I'd imagine more likely than not. At least most people around here thought he was.
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