Confirmed with Link: Ryane Clowe to Rangers for NYR 2013 2nd, FLA 2013 3rd, Conditional 2nd 2014

[wolfgaze]

I don't see why many compare Clowe to Dubi, Avery, Prust. He is meaner and has more offensive ability than all 3 combined, and only Prust can somewhat hang with Clowe in a fight. The guy is a legit top 6 power forward. Clowe brings a lot of what this team has desperately needed for years - if this was 2008. His age is the only issue with this deal, but it's huge. Most PFWs don't age gracefully in this league, with guys like Gary Roberts being a noteable exception. Obviously Sather is banking on the latter. It's a dangerous bet.

I fully expect Clowe to be resigned whatever it takes. Probably an 8 year deal to keep the cap hit manageable. Trading 2 high picks in a good draft for a rental when you're a bubble team would be utterly idiotic. Sather has never been a man with a plan and is prone to bad risks that blow up in his face, but he's not a moron. Let's hope Clowe looks more like Roberts in 5 years than most power forwards.

You had me until the '8 year deal' part, lol.

 

[chosen]

I'm wary of giving up picks, but I love Clowe. He's freakin' awesome, and he's exacly what this team needs. A mix of toughness, skill, and size. When was the last time we had a Ryane Clowe-like player?

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
As per @Real_ESPNLeBrun, it's SJ's 2nd, FLA's 3rd and conditional 2nd (on re-signing or winning two playoff series). If not, it becomes 5th.

I believe that the last time the Rangers were involved in a deal where a player with zero goals moved was Jeff Halpern.

 

[Esa 10]

You had me until the '8 year deal' part, lol.

Not advocating it, but can see Sather doing to save cap space for RFA resignings and other needs. He gave Redden 6 years off 2 bad seasons with Ottawa. Clowe isn't in that kind of decline. It's basically a Holmgren move - trade for a guy you were gonna throw everything at anyway in the summer before other teams get a chance to.

 

[Beacon]

My guess is that Slats will be moving some additional players (Fingers crossed for Pyatt at the least, Boyle following) for draft picks and some middle aged talent... Not young (we have plenty of very solid prospects right now), and not Beaver Brad age.

It would be a mistake to go for picks considering that this team is clearly planning an all-out push next year and for the rest of Lundqvist's prime. It would make much more sense to go for a semi-ready prospect like Lindberg who may be ready at some point during 2014. A draft pick will require 3-4 years of waiting, while a decent prospect could be had for the same price, but be ready faster (though without the high, but rare upside of a draft pick).

Acquiring a few guys who will be cheap ELCs would be useful as we are trying to acquire highly paid veterans like Clowe.

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

Beaver brad age? Do people think Richards is 40 years old or something?

 

[TheRightWay]

It would be a mistake to go for picks considering that this team is clearly planning an all-out push next year and for the rest of Lundqvist's prime. It would make much more sense to go for a semi-ready prospect like Lindberg who may be ready at some point during 2014. A draft pick will require 3-4 years of waiting, while a decent prospect could be had for the same price, but be ready faster (though without the high, but rare upside of a draft pick).

Acquiring a few guys who will be cheap ELCs would be useful as we are trying to acquire highly paid veterans like Clowe.

You're pretty optimistic if you think we're going to get guys close to NHL ready who have any upside at all for our depth forwards

 

[Ola]

Let's be realistic here, we are more or less getting a Wojtek Wolski -- that can fight. Nothing more nothing less.

I love the toughness, but on top of his game is he is a 2nd lineer, when not on top of his game he is more or less a 3rd/4th lineer (don't get me wrong, but a player like him becomes very ineffective offensively if he isn't provided with certain elements on the ice).

What worries me is his future cap hit, not if he can help us because he can. But like if he is making 3.75m per or in that nighborhood, we need to get him in a great environemnt and he needs to stay 100% for him to be worth just that. Definitely never more. He would never be a bargain.

I like Clowe in the mix with our kids JT Miller, Kreider, Fasth and Lindberg. If McI makes it under next season, we are stepping up again physically and if we carry -- at least as a 13th forward -- a heavy weight and dress him against selected opponents, we are half tough again for sure. But can we get him on a contract that makes sense???

 

[Ola]

I have been saying this for a while (before missing out on Nash last February) that Gaborik will get traded at the 2013 Entry draft.

Yeah for sure.

I mean, that is the plan atleast. Nothing is done before it is done. If Gabby develops instant chemistry with some guys on this roster and wins Conn Smyth and we the Cup, Slats/Gorton can always alter their plans.

But we know for sure that Slats/Goron has called around about Gabby. Given Gabby's mood lately, I am not at all suprised if he has been asked to supply a list of 8 (?) teams either. When doing this, Slats/Gorton has asked if their is interest in Gabby right now, with the return being something that fills holes currently on the roster and down the road. Basically on the level that they are asking for like Duchene from Colorado and players like that. It doesn't seem like anyone will bite.

From those that don't bite, I am certain they also are asking if they will be interested in being involved in talks about Gabby at basically the draft -- if we need to move him for cap purposes -- with the price basically being picks & prospect oriented. And for that compensation, this summer -- take my word for it -- I am certain enough teams will be interested. Many teams every year are in the same position as Toronto were when they traded for Kessel. IE, they have good assets, they believe in their future, they have a dissapointing season behind them, and they are looking to give the kids they keep a good environment and jump start their future. Their GM's have a ton of pressure on them to take the last step. By getting Gabby they will certainly move in the right direction.

And when giving up the number of picks we have currently, it definitely seem like we are expecting to get some picks back...

 

[Jackpot]

Let's be realistic here, we are more or less getting a Wojtek Wolski -- that can fight. Nothing more nothing less

Are you speaking in numeric / stat terms? Because they're no where near the same type / style of players... I think due to the time zone deal not very many here have watched Clowe play. That's no exaggeration, not even CLOSE to the same, other than how and when acquired....

Edit: If I'm Clowe I'd drop the gloves, that's an insult!!!
Seriously though, Clowe's game is a throwback, physical game..pound and score, no where near a floater, if he's not impacting the scoreboard, he will be impacting bodies..

 

[TheRightWay]

Let's be realistic here, we are more or less getting a Wojtek Wolski -- that can fight. Nothing more nothing less.

I love the toughness, but on top of his game is he is a 2nd lineer, when not on top of his game he is more or less a 3rd/4th lineer (don't get me wrong, but a player like him becomes very ineffective offensively if he isn't provided with certain elements on the ice).

What worries me is his future cap hit, not if he can help us because he can. But like if he is making 3.75m per or in that nighborhood, we need to get him in a great environemnt and he needs to stay 100% for him to be worth just that. Definitely never more. He would never be a bargain.

I like Clowe in the mix with our kids JT Miller, Kreider, Fasth and Lindberg. If McI makes it under next season, we are stepping up again physically and if we carry -- at least as a 13th forward -- a heavy weight and dress him against selected opponents, we are half tough again for sure. But can we get him on a contract that makes sense???

I like you Ola but the comparison is not good. Clowe doesn't have the hands or speed that Wolski does. Wolski doesn't have the hitting or board play that Clowe has.

 

[haohmaru]

I like you Ola but the comparison is not good. Clowe doesn't have the hands or speed that Wolski does. Wolski doesn't have the hitting or board play that Clowe has.

Clowe actually does have great hands. That's why he's scored quite a few goals.

In any event, nearly the entire Rangers fan base is bemoaning that fact that we've lost sandpaper and character players (Dubi, Prust, Mitchell) and now we get one of those types of players back, that's better than any of those we lost, and now those same fans are crying about 2nd and 3rd round picks and "the future".

If 1st rounders were involved, I'd agree. Those should be reserved for deals for players of great talent (Nash) that aren't rentals and will be around long term.

2nd rounders can be reacquired via future trades and, in most cases, result in players that don't play in the NHL. Those aren't made up figures. They are facts. You can tell me that the Rangers have been really successful with later round picks, and they have, but that doesn't mean they will continue to be nor does it mean that any of them will be better than a player like Clowe in his prime at 30. This was a great time to trade for Clowe because of his down season. Think this would've gone down last year? Or the year before? Clowe would've gotten a 1st and prospects or a 2nd+ if we had gotten him last year.

 

[offdacrossbar]

The funny part of all this, and other acquisitions, is that we are all looking at clowe based upon what he was. If it we're 5 yrs ago I would b way more excited.

What he is now is an aging power forward type player who has had an awful year.At this point, we need this guy to just not suk.

He brings an element to this team that on paper sounds good. He's hard to play against but that's when he's on the top if his game. He's not. And at this point of the season with this team, we need goals and this guy brings exactly zero of those with him.

He's trending down and he's been hurt. With his struggling game and his so-so skating, I'm not sure i would be looking at him as anything more than a rental.

 

[beastly115]

Gaborik will be traded at the draft.

Richards will likely be bought out next summer.

Do we make the playoffs this year?

 

[RangerBoy]

Jeff Gorton likes players with size. He had a role in some of the players Boston drafted. Big players. Physical players. People complained the Rangers were bounced around by Boston. You add Clowe. Add McIlrath. Add another rough and tumble bottom six guy. The Rangers aren't going to be bounced around anymore.

Clowe on the left side with Hagelin and Kreider. Richards,Stepan,Miller and Lindberg in the middle. Nash,Callahan and Fasth on the right side. The Rangers will need their young cheap ELC players to contribute. $64.3M cap.

 

[TheRightWay]

Clowe actually does have great hands. That's why he's scored quite a few goals.

In any event, nearly the entire Rangers fan base is bemoaning that fact that we've lost sandpaper and character players (Dubi, Prust, Mitchell) and now we get one of those types of players back, that's better than any of those we lost, and now those same fans are crying about 2nd and 3rd round picks and "the future".

If 1st rounders were involved, I'd agree. Those should be reserved for deals for players of great talent (Nash) that aren't rentals and will be around long term.

2nd rounders can be reacquired via future trades and, in most cases, result in players that don't play in the NHL. Those aren't made up figures. They are facts. You can tell me that the Rangers have been really successful with later round picks, and they have, but that doesn't mean they will continue to be nor does it mean that any of them will be better than a player like Clowe in his prime at 30. This was a great time to trade for Clowe because of his down season. Think this would've gone down last year? Or the year before? Clowe would've gotten a 1st and prospects or a 2nd+ if we had gotten him last year.

You're right, I worded it poorly. I didn't mean so much as shooting as I meant that Wolski can pull of nice dekes and make saucer passes halfway across the ice and that sort of thing. A finesse guy. Clowe is a north-south player.

 

[Zil]

Jeff Gorton likes players with size. He had a role in some of the players Boston drafted. Big players. Physical players. People complained the Rangers were bounced around by Boston. You add Clowe. Add McIlrath. Add another rough and tumble bottom six guy. The Rangers aren't going to be bounced around anymore.

Clowe on the left side with Hagelin and Kreider. Richards,Stepan,Miller and Lindberg in the middle. Nash,Callahan and Fasth on the right side. The Rangers will need their young cheap ELC players to contribute. $64.3M cap.

That'd be great if the dominant factor in today's NHL were size. It's not. The modern game is all about speed and the organization appears to have little to no grasp of that.

 

[Riverdale]

The funny part of all this, and other acquisitions, is that we are all looking at clowe based upon what he was. If it we're 5 yrs ago I would b way more excited.

What he is now is an aging power forward type player who has had an awful year.At this point, we need this guy to just not suk.

He brings an element to this team that on paper sounds good. He's hard to play against but that's when he's on the top if his game. He's not. And at this point of the season with this team, we need goals and this guy brings exactly zero of those with him.

He's trending down and he's been hurt. With his struggling game and his so-so skating, I'm not sure i would be looking at him as anything more than a rental.

Exactly how I feel. Another case of getting a player who is getting older and is going down. Rangers need players who are tough to go up against, but at what cost?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Look, no offense, but if you are "fairly new" to the sport, don't try telling people who sucks and who does not suck. You have been doing this since your first post here, basically. We all love new fans of the game, but I don't think you're really in a position to judge players based on limited viewing.

It is offensive. Another person telling me I am not even allowed to discuss what I see in an entertainment figures performance as if they are so important? I don't tell people what to think if I can help it. I look to share my opinion and I try to avoid the patented HF passive aggressive condescencion towards a dissenting opinion. Maybe I failed in my discussion with you or maybe you were pushing your opinion on me without reason (I specifically said I was open to logic and reason and NONE was given) and I pushed right back but it was a stupid GDT who cares?

Sorry but I have every right to try judging a player and say who sucks especially when I can actually watch them and they do suck. In fact thats the point to discuss and judge and let loose a bit. it's a forum for being a hockey fan and that includes the armchair GM's, couch coaches or whatever the heck you want to call it. You kinda have to just get over it so long as I'm not calling you an idiot or something all opinions are valid here even if they are incorrect. If they are incorrect it should be relatively fun and easy for a vet such as yourself to disprove.

I haven't gotten to watch Clowe and I can bet money most here in NYR HF haven't so your advice has no bearing on this thread and situation since I did not judge or evaluate Clowe at all. I don't want to assume what motivated you to make this post after the stupid GDT the other day but I posted about Richards in the appropriate thread so please quote me there and respond.

 

[Crease]

I like it and hope they extend/re-sign him. He'll fit nicely on the third line.

 

[Riverdale]

I like it and hope they extend/re-sign him. He'll fit nicely on the third line.

Do you think he can keep up his previous years' production if he is resigned?

 

[Crease]

Do you think he can keep up his previous years' production if he is resigned?

No. He's on the downside. But as long as they're not paying him for past production, I'm fine with retaining him.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Short memories. Poor judgment.

I actually think it's foresight based on performance, cap and contract status. Either could be legitamately argued

 

[Ola]

I like you Ola but the comparison is not good. Clowe doesn't have the hands or speed that Wolski does. Wolski doesn't have the hitting or board play that Clowe has.

Are you speaking in numeric / stat terms? Because they're no where near the same type / style of players... I think due to the time zone deal not very many here have watched Clowe play. That's no exaggeration, not even CLOSE to the same, other than how and when acquired....

Edit: If I'm Clowe I'd drop the gloves, that's an insult!!!
Seriously though, Clowe's game is a throwback, physical game..pound and score, no where near a floater, if he's not impacting the scoreboard, he will be impacting bodies..

Well its ment as an insult!!!

Seriously though, we are paying quite much and we get a player who, if we are going to resign him, will carry a quite heafty price tag. It is fair to point out that this guy is someone who is not self-sufficing on the ice. He needs alot of support to be effective. Can we give him that?

If not, we are giving up here alot and resigning him might be a misstake.

If we do, boy could we use his toughness long term.

 

[Ola]

Jeff Gorton likes players with size. He had a role in some of the players Boston drafted. Big players. Physical players. People complained the Rangers were bounced around by Boston. You add Clowe. Add McIlrath. Add another rough and tumble bottom six guy. The Rangers aren't going to be bounced around anymore.

Clowe on the left side with Hagelin and Kreider. Richards,Stepan,Miller and Lindberg in the middle. Nash,Callahan and Fasth on the right side. The Rangers will need their young cheap ELC players to contribute. $64.3M cap.

It would be optimal if we could work in Zucc into those names.

Don't get me wrong, I also see the deficiancies in Zucc's game. He is darn small and weak, and not very fast. But we could certainly use his creativity.

You list 10 names. Realisticly, Fasth and Lindberg will need time, I doubt both are ready from opening night. That leaves us with 9 minus injuries with the addition of Pyatt and Boyle. I don't think we overbalance the lineup with top 9 guys if we keep Zucc either.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think the Wolski comparison is fine. I don't believe Ola meant they're comparable in terms of style or skill set, rather that we're acquiring a guy that had been productive in the past but was struggling at the time of the deal. It's an trade in the Wolski mold. Taking a flier on a talented player, hoping they return to glory, so to speak.