Value of: Ryan Strome’s next contact

[Overrateprospects]

Lias absolutely over suzuki/villardi/necas. 100% mistake.
Chytil was drafted at 21, all 3 were off the board by 13. Thomas at 20 is another player i'd have loved to have right now.

Chytil was rated in the 40’s and honestly why not trade down and get your guy. The same with Lias. He drafted Lias,Chytil and Kravstov.

I’m not sure why he gets praised for what he did with Bruins. Looks more like Bruins have a great scout team because he never once landed a Lucic,Kessel or Marchand for Rangers. He also thought Howden was a first liner and that Hajek was a top pair Shutdown Dman…..

 

[bernmeister]

Who can step in and be a #2 for a team with playoff aspirations who can also shoulder the load if a #1 center goes down? Chytil looks terrible at center and Barron's played what, five games in the NHL total?

I mean, go for it but teams will be licking their chops knowing they just have to worry about one center on the Rangers. Gives them more time to try to shut down Panarin and try (if it's possible) to slow down Fox.

I do not share yr pessimism
Also, smart play is add assets now rather than piss away on self rental

 

[bernmeister]

you can have that opinion but it won't change reality. Accept that Drury will not trade Strome. We just landed #1 in the NHL. Drury is gonna make a run which means we are more likely to purge assets instead of acquire them.
Also, not sure who can step in for Strome. Chytil hasn't had a chance but I would not hedge my bets there. IF Gallant can play Chytil with Panarin when he gets back AND Chytil activates his Saiyan mode, THEN you can start entertaining trading Strome but that guy just makes everyone he plays with better. That is a player you want to keep. AT LEAST have the contract discussions first before you throw the baby out with the bath water.

We MIGHT get lucky and win it all this yr, but smart play is to add assets, then any deals we make armed w/more firepower + surplus is from a position of strength.

Also, DO NOT REPEAT THE EFFIN MISTAKE WE DID W/BUCH
GET MORE BY SELLING W/TERM
STOP BEING GREEDY AND TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTYH WAYS

 

[IDvsEGO]

Chytil was rated in the 40’s and honestly why not trade down and get your guy. The same with Lias. He drafted Lias,Chytil and Kravstov.

I’m not sure why he gets praised for what he did with Bruins. Looks more like Bruins have a great scout team because he never once landed a Lucic,Kessel or Marchand for Rangers. He also thought Howden was a first liner and that Hajek was a top pair Shutdown Dman…..

Chytil was rated in the 40's and yet has turned into an nhl player, and is better than almost anyone in the 2nd round or later from that draft.
Chytil may never 100% put it together and become more than a 3rd line guy, but he is an nhl player.

Howden was absolutely terrible, hajak has looked better this past week under gallant.
Lets look at why jeff gorton is "praised"
For Rick Nash - The pick that turns into K'andre Miller, Ryan Lindgren, Ryan Spooner ( which turns into ryan strome).
Getting a first for Brady Skjei, which turned into Schneider.
For Brassard - Mika zibanajad + 3rd round pick, which turned into pavel buchnievich.
The macdonagh trade is his "worst" and we still got nils lundkvist out of it, and he's looking like he'll develop into a solid top 4 nhl defenseman.
He also "acquired" trouba for essentially Neal Pionk.
Signed panarin, extended mika to a great 5 year deal.

Gorton also timed the rebuild almost perfectly.
Had the rangers waited another year, they would've had almost no assets to move.
Getting kakko and laf were pure Luck, and had we not gotten them we likely tried to draft(from insider information on the boards), either zegras or newhook in 19, and lundell in 20.
Gorton has a good eye for talent. Thats why he's praised.

 

[Overrateprospects]

Chytil was rated in the 40's and yet has turned into an nhl player, and is better than almost anyone in the 2nd round or later from that draft.
Chytil may never 100% put it together and become more than a 3rd line guy, but he is an nhl player.

Howden was absolutely terrible, hajak has looked better this past week under gallant.
Lets look at why jeff gorton is "praised"
For Rick Nash - The pick that turns into K'andre Miller, Ryan Lindgren, Ryan Spooner ( which turns into ryan strome).
Getting a first for Brady Skjei, which turned into Schneider.
For Brassard - Mika zibanajad + 3rd round pick, which turned into pavel buchnievich.
The macdonagh trade is his "worst" and we still got nils lundkvist out of it, and he's looking like he'll develop into a solid top 4 nhl defenseman.
He also "acquired" trouba for essentially Neal Pionk.
Signed panarin, extended mika to a great 5 year deal.

Gorton also timed the rebuild almost perfectly.
Had the rangers waited another year, they would've had almost no assets to move.
Getting kakko and laf were pure Luck, and had we not gotten them we likely tried to draft(from insider information on the boards), either zegras or newhook in 19, and lundell in 20.
Gorton has a good eye for talent. Thats why he's praised.

Chytil is not a true Centre and should be on wing if they want him to produce.

K’Andre Miller pick was from Sens who we traded up. We used the 2nd round pick from Grabner to move up 4 spots.

Rick Nash trade to Bruins we took back Belesky at half cap and ate half on Nash’s cap hit. I agree that was an excellent trade but Dolan made it happen since he was the one who wanted to rebuild after Gorton’s failure at retool.


Brass Mika was a 2nd round pick which we used to get Brendan Smith. Gave up more for Brendan Smith than what we got back for Zuc…….


Buch was Glen Sather move which we acquired in Rick Nash trade 2012.

We traded Pionk and a first for Trouba and he gave him 8.5 per despite Trouba being a career 2nd paired Dman instead of the Norris trophy contender that he thought he was getting.

Panarin? Anyone could’ve been GM and he needed Donal to make it happen. The reason he took “less” was Rangers offered most signing bonus money.

His 3 best moves was Panarin,Nash trade(18) and Mika/Brass trade. All involved Donal’s money


His best moves was small moves like Grabner,Blackwell and Rooney. The one trade he did well with was Strome/Spooner but luckily Petey was GM instead of Holland.Gorton wanted to keep rebuilding this season so what was the point of signing Kreider and Panarin? Wait till they were both past their prime?

I think he wasn’t the worst but mediocre at best who couldn’t manage the cap to save his life. Rangers had him drafting for 6 years if you count 2015 and how well was his drafting success? I hope his Marchand pick is going to be Berard but we will have to see in 3-5 years from now

 

[n8]

We MIGHT get lucky and win it all this yr, but smart play is to add assets, then any deals we make armed w/more firepower + surplus is from a position of strength.

Also, DO NOT REPEAT THE EFFIN MISTAKE WE DID W/BUCH
GET MORE BY SELLING W/TERM
STOP BEING GREEDY AND TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTYH WAYS

yes, that is the smart play. Drury traded Buch. You think he is gonna do the smart play? I'm just telling you, capslock all you want, Drury will not make the smart play. Drury will self rent Strome. Worse case, he will resign Strome for $7M per. I'm not being greedy. I can't even say Drury is greedy. He's in the business of winning. He's here buying cryptocurrency and you're asking for a diversified portfolio. I'm just telling you what will happen. You are deluding yourself thinking Drury would do otherwise.

 

[bernmeister]

yes, that is the smart play. Drury traded Buch. You think he is gonna do the smart play? I'm just telling you, capslock all you want, Drury will not make the smart play. Drury will self rent Strome. Worse case, he will resign Strome for $7M per. I'm not being greedy. I can't even say Drury is greedy. He's in the business of winning. He's here buying cryptocurrency and you're asking for a diversified portfolio. I'm just telling you what will happen. You are deluding yourself thinking Drury would do otherwise.

thanks for admitting my advice = the smart play whether Drury listens or not.

But as for still wanting to go the other way, you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts, and math does not lie.
If there was any way they could have extended him without protection, they would have done that.
That ship sailed when Zib and Fox extended.

THERE IS ZERO ROOM FOR HIM TO SIGN IN 2022 FOR ANY $$$.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

thanks for admitting my advice = the smart play whether Drury listens or not.

But as for still wanting to go the other way, you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts, and math does not lie.
If there was any way they could have extended him without protection, they would have done that.
That ship sailed when Zib and Fox extended.

THERE IS ZERO ROOM FOR HIM TO SIGN IN 2022 FOR ANY $$$.

Well of course the smart long play is the trade Strome so he doesn’t walk for nothing potentially but competitive teams, which the Rangers now are, don’t sell off key pieces going into the playoffs. I don’t know if the Rangers will re-sign him but it’s either that or he walks. There’s no way in hell he’s getting traded.

 

[n8]

thanks for admitting my advice = the smart play whether Drury listens or not.

But as for still wanting to go the other way, you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts, and math does not lie.
If there was any way they could have extended him without protection, they would have done that.
That ship sailed when Zib and Fox extended.

THERE IS ZERO ROOM FOR HIM TO SIGN IN 2022 FOR ANY $$$.

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying Drury 100% isn't going to agree with you. He will self rent Strome JUST to spite you.

 

[bernmeister]

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying Drury 100% isn't going to agree with you. He will self rent Strome JUST to spite you.

Ef Drury if that is the case.
I love our Rangers, and when they're right they're right.
But when they're wrong, they're wrong.

I have not forgiven Cat Francis for dealing Ratelle + Park for Espo + Vadnais.
Couple of others also

Smart move is get 2nd + for Geo + Strome
THEN
at draft, move up of sell for a better pick down the road

DO NOT BE STUPID AND WASTE

At the end of the day I can't control if the moves they make are arguably correct/incorrect on merit, but I will not hesitate to point out where bern agrees or would have gone in a different direction

 

[Vitto79]

Ef Drury if that is the case.
I love our Rangers, and when they're right they're right.
But when they're wrong, they're wrong.

I have not forgiven Cat Francis for dealing Ratelle + Park for Espo + Vadnais.
Couple of others also

Smart move is get 2nd + for Geo + Strome
THEN
at draft, move up of sell for a better pick down the road

DO NOT BE STUPID AND WASTE

At the end of the day I can't control if the moves they make are arguably correct/incorrect on merit, but I will not hesitate to point out where bern agrees or would have gone in a different direction

you need to start thinking like an NHL GM and not about futures all the time

it’s really that simple

 

[bernmeister]

you need to start thinking like an NHL GM and not about futures all the time

it’s really that simple

you need to remember the signif pain and frustration we had b'c we went that way our last cup run and repeatedly came up short, and instead of drafting to build which could have maybe made a difference, we did bad overreach/desperation trades which resulted in waste of assets. Remember Eric Staal? etc etc

No, bern is gonna tell it like it is, and if NYR braintrust disagree, fine, but I'll happily take my track record vs that and will continue to throw it in face of those pushing stupid moves.

And ps, bruins and others have shown the approach of a deep team can win it all is valid.

 

[tlk]

Smart move is get 2nd + for Geo + Strome

A 2nd for a goalie (depending on the current option) with 1A potential and a competent C?
In other words, lose them for some (future) magic beans. That'll be worse than how we did with Buch then.

 

[TGWL]

you need to remember the signif pain and frustration we had b'c we went that way our last cup run and repeatedly came up short, and instead of drafting to build which could have maybe made a difference, we did bad overreach/desperation trades which resulted in waste of assets. Remember Eric Staal? etc etc

No, bern is gonna tell it like it is, and if NYR braintrust disagree, fine, but I'll happily take my track record vs that and will continue to throw it in face of those pushing stupid moves.

And ps, bruins and others have shown the approach of a deep team can win it all is valid.

You say it could have made a difference, but is also could have easily ended up with nothing to show for it, having talent that never made it, and a roster that never went anywhere. Despite the "got for it" mentality they had, Rangers were one of the top teams for a handful a years. They had playoff runs. Some of those years were deep playoff runs.

I get the frustration of when this fairy-tail ends there's nothing to show for it and we're starting over with no real prospects to step in, but nobody knows which outcome would have been better. It's very possible NYR don't make those playoff runs, continue to finish 10-15 in the standings without ever really getting that prospect ready to step in and take over on the top line.

Eric Staal didn't pan out. Staal seemed checked out, slower than normal (maybe injured), and not used anywhere near the way he should have been utilize. But I bet if Staal's rebound year takes place when we traded for him you don't mention this trade as wasted assets.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Chytil was rated in the 40’s and honestly why not trade down and get your guy. The same with Lias. He drafted Lias,Chytil and Kravstov.

I’m not sure why he gets praised for what he did with Bruins. Looks more like Bruins have a great scout team because he never once landed a Lucic,Kessel or Marchand for Rangers. He also thought Howden was a first liner and that Hajek was a top pair Shutdown Dman…..

McKenzie's final ranking: 31
Button's final ranking: 20
Pronman's final ranking: 31
Hockey Prospects final ranking: 28

ISS, Dobber and McKeens had him outside the top 31.

There was no certainty that you could trade down into the 2nd round and still get him. And there's no certainty that a team in the 22-31 range wanted to trade up. It was a bit of a reach, but not outrageous. On top of that, it's not like the 10 players drafted after him have done any better.

 

[smoneil]

McKenzie's final ranking: 31
Button's final ranking: 20
Pronman's final ranking: 31
Hockey Prospects final ranking: 28

ISS, Dobber and McKeens had him outside the top 31.

There was no certainty that you could trade down into the 2nd round and still get him. And there's no certainty that a team in the 22-31 range wanted to trade up. It was a bit of a reach, but not outrageous. On top of that, it's not like the 10 players drafted after him have done any better.

Chytil's issue isn't where he was drafted, but how he's been developed. The Rangers rushed him. He was very young for his draft class, and was playing NHL games the year he was drafted. At that age, minutes matter, and Chytil has never had the minutes to truly develop. They should have sent him to the AHL, playing top minutes in all situations for a couple of years. Instead, they had him up with the NHL, on a team where he would be blocked by Zib and Strome, getting ~13 minutes a night with no real talent/veteran presence to lean on in his line.

At this point, he's kind of f***ed. He can't be sent down to get those top minutes in the AHL anymore without waivers, and the Rangers are a team that can't afford to let a young center develop on the fly in the NHL ala Hughes, so he's unlikely to get those minutes there, either. They might as well trade him to a team that will give him those minutes to see if he can salvage any of his missed development. It should be noted that, even though he's in his D+5 year, he's only played about 2.5 seasons worth of games, and he's still just 22 years old. I think he can still turn into a top-6 center. Sadly, I just no longer see it happening with the Rangers. They seem to rush nearly ALL of their forward prospects, and never seem to learn from that mistake.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

you need to start thinking like an NHL GM and not about futures all the time

it’s really that simple

Exactly... when was the last time (or ever) that a competitive playoff team sold off their 2C that was playing near ppg because he was an upcoming UFA?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Chytil's issue isn't where he was drafted, but how he's been developed.

You are probably right and that very well may be the case. I wasn't really commenting on what problems Chytil and the Ranger's have, just responding to the poster that stated he was ranked in the 40s and the Ranger's should have traded down to get him.

 

[bernmeister]

A 2nd for a goalie (depending on the current option) with 1A potential and a competent C?
In other words, lose them for some (future) magic beans. That'll be worse than how we did with Buch then.

I misspoke. Haste makes waste. Obv meant to say
a 2nd each for both Strome + Geo
and that is at min, no retain, etc which is extra

Magic beans are necsssary in order to grow.
No growh = stagnant and rosterr gets old.
Except you don't snap fingers, you create your opportunities such as this.

Reap what you sow
do not waste the assets

 

[bernmeister]

You say it could have made a difference, but is also could have easily ended up with nothing to show for it, having talent that never made it, and a roster that never went anywhere. Despite the "got for it" mentality they had, Rangers were one of the top teams for a handful a years. They had playoff runs. Some of those years were deep playoff runs.

I get the frustration of when this fairy-tail ends there's nothing to show for it and we're starting over with no real prospects to step in, but nobody knows which outcome would have been better. It's very possible NYR don't make those playoff runs, continue to finish 10-15 in the standings without ever really getting that prospect ready to step in and take over on the top line.

Eric Staal didn't pan out. Staal seemed checked out, slower than normal (maybe injured), and not used anywhere near the way he should have been utilize. But I bet if Staal's rebound year takes place when we traded for him you don't mention this trade as wasted assets.

you make some good points

true, no body other than God can deliver absolutes

Howev,
logic suggests if we had more/better assets
incl surplus assets that could have been dealt to upgrade our picks
to better draft order.
logic suggests we probably would have acquired better prospects,
who were likely to turn into better players.

The argument 'we can't guarantee the outcome'
is not an accetable basis to quit/not try.

 

[bernmeister]

Exactly... when was the last time (or ever) that a competitive playoff team sold off their 2C that was playing near ppg because he was an upcoming UFA?

It's not that he's a ufa
it's that we have zero cap to even attempt to sign him for even chump change, even for just a yr to buy time

people gotta bend, buckle and break and admit this

then it becomes a ? of do you self rent or sell high.

Tavares says hi!

 

[bernmeister]

Chytil's issue isn't where he was drafted, but how he's been developed. The Rangers rushed him. He was very young for his draft class, and was playing NHL games the year he was drafted. At that age, minutes matter, and Chytil has never had the minutes to truly develop. They should have sent him to the AHL, playing top minutes in all situations for a couple of years. Instead, they had him up with the NHL, on a team where he would be blocked by Zib and Strome, getting ~13 minutes a night with no real talent/veteran presence to lean on in his line.

At this point, he's kind of f***ed. He can't be sent down to get those top minutes in the AHL anymore without waivers, and the Rangers are a team that can't afford to let a young center develop on the fly in the NHL ala Hughes, so he's unlikely to get those minutes there, either. They might as well trade him to a team that will give him those minutes to see if he can salvage any of his missed development. It should be noted that, even though he's in his D+5 year, he's only played about 2.5 seasons worth of games, and he's still just 22 years old. I think he can still turn into a top-6 center. Sadly, I just no longer see it happening with the Rangers. They seem to rush nearly ALL of their forward prospects, and never seem to learn from that mistake.

general agree, except Chytil has higher upside than Strome, so every other aspect aside, you deal the older guy who's gonna decline, not the younger guy who's gonna blossom.

Stop w/win now foolishness

 

[smoneil]

general agree, except Chytil has higher upside than Strome, so every other aspect aside, you deal the older guy who's gonna decline, not the younger guy who's gonna blossom.

Stop w/win now foolishness

Bern, you know my position on this topic. I thought they should have moved Strome two years ago to open up space for Chytil to get more top six opportunity (basically doing for Chytil what they did for Kakko this past summer). They didn't then. They aren't now. This franchise is determined to shoot itself in the foot. I'm calling it now--they move Chytil and a bunch of other pieces (including Kakko, possibly) to BARELY squeeze Strome in under the cap. They then ice a team with two first lines and two 4th lines. The following year, Montreal poaches Laf on an offer sheet, leaving the Rangers with nothing to show for their lottery luck but a re-signed Ryan Strome. I can't think of anything more "NY Rangers" than that.