Prospect Info: Ryan Poehling Part 4 (No MB talk)

[Goldenhands]

Here we go again.

Phil Danault is the 54th centre in the league for points per game, and 36th in ES ppg. Easily second line production, and without an elite winger on his line.

And by the way, there is no such thing as ZERO bust potential when a guy hasn't played one professional game yet.

You could use the same crappy stats to make your point that DD was a decent first line center when in reality he was not even NHL material... You dont have to be a hockey guru to see that Danault doesnt have the skills to belong on a legit top 6, would be much more suited in a third line center role to shut down the top offensive lines while producing decent third line numbers... He is doing well while Kotka isnt ready to assume a bigger role yet and his line made of 2 fiesty wingers like Tatar and Gallagher is clicking well so Im not saying he is a bad player here, just not a legit second line center on a good team...

 

[Goldenhands]

I think he will be around Danault's skating and strength without much improvement meaning he shouldn't have much trouble since he's already got good strength and skating. I could see Danault being the harder worker, but Poehling the much better playmaker.

Entirely agree here, Poeling has a very good stick and is very strong on the puck, not Armia strong but still very strong and very good at retrieving pucks, especially for a 19 yrs old kid, its not hard to project he will be a pain in the ass to face every nights once he adds 10-15 lbs... His mix of size and speed is already impressive and its only going to get better as he matures physically...

I expect Poehling to become a bit faster and stronger than Danault in his prime.

People did that with Desharnais. For example, after the 2012 season we had countless posts on this board pointing out that Desharnais was 14th among centres in points. The moronic hot takes on Desharnais didn't stop for a long time.

But there's an important distinction here:

Danault is a much better 5on5 and 4on5 player than Desharnais was.

I entirely agree with you here, Danault is a very valuable NHLer, Im only pointing out that ultimately, he lacks the skills and offensive awareness of a legit second line center on a good team...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

We can have both Danault and Poehling people!!!

 

[Legend123]

Entirely agree here, Poeling has a very good stick and is very strong on the puck, not Armia strong but still very strong and very good at retrieving pucks, especially for a 19 yrs old kid, its not hard to project he will be a pain in the ass to face every nights once he adds 10-15 lbs... His mix of size and speed is already impressive and its only going to get better as he matures physically...

I expect Poehling to become a bit faster and stronger than Danault in his prime.



I entirely agree with you here, Danault is a very valuable NHLer, Im only pointing out that ultimately, he lacks the skills and offensive awareness of a legit second line center on a good team...

Hes 20

 

[Mrb1p]

We can have both Danault and Poehling people!!!

Realistically, no we can't.

There's only so much room on a roster and cap wise, it's not efficient at all to have Danault and Poehling, let alone one of those on the third line.

In reality, good management would be like using a 90's push pencil. Look at every position as a pencil, with every player being a pencil lead. Every time a player is starting to wear out, replace him with another one.

Kotkaniemi
Domi
Danault
Evans

to

Kotkaniemi
Domi
Poehling
Evans

To

Kotkaniemi
Poehling
XX
Evans

And so on. Getting emotionally attached to players is one way to run a franchise to the ground. Look at the Patriots and how they're ran, this is smart management and it is the reason why they win every damn year. They have an established core (Brady, Gronk) and they recycle player over and over. Make a career out of Wes Welker, send him out for Edelman.

The same should be said about every position.

The RD side is the other evident one.

Weber
Petry
Benn
Juulsen
Fleury
Brook

To

Weber
Juulsen
Fleury
Brook

To

Brook
Juulsen
Fleury
XXX
XXX

In theory, if you cycle good enough, with good drafting and prime management, you could stay competitive until your core players (In that case, core player, Kotkaniemi, as we don't really have anyone else of this age to be another cornerstone for the franchise.) are retired.

 

[Tyson]

Damn I just noticed that Poehling has 3 goals in 21 games this year. He had 14 last year.

He is not exactly tearing up the NCAA as a junior

 

[David Suzuki]

You could use the same crappy stats to make your point that DD was a decent first line center when in reality he was not even NHL material

Thank god we watch the games and know DD/Danault are not comparable.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Realistically, no we can't.

There's only so much room on a roster and cap wise, it's not efficient at all to have Danault and Poehling, let alone one of those on the third line.

In reality, good management would be like using a 90's push pencil. Look at every position as a pencil, with every player being a pencil lead. Every time a player is starting to wear out, replace him with another one.

Kotkaniemi
Domi
Danault
Evans

to

Kotkaniemi
Domi
Poehling
Evans

To

Kotkaniemi
Poehling
XX
Evans

And so on. Getting emotionally attached to players is one way to run a franchise to the ground. Look at the Patriots and how they're ran, this is smart management and it is the reason why they win every damn year. They have an established core (Brady, Gronk) and they recycle player over and over. Make a career out of Wes Welker, send him out for Edelman.

The same should be said about every position.

The RD side is the other evident one.

Weber
Petry
Benn
Juulsen
Fleury
Brook

To

Weber
Juulsen
Fleury
Brook

To

Brook
Juulsen
Fleury
XXX
XXX

In theory, if you cycle good enough, with good drafting and prime management, you could stay competitive until your core players (In that case, core player, Kotkaniemi, as we don't really have anyone else of this age to be another cornerstone for the franchise.) are retired.

None of our Cs will break the bank, we can certainly roll with Kotkaniemi, Domi, Poehling, and Danault as our centers. Danaults ability in the faceoff circle makes him a must keep. You want to draft a C in the first, yet don't want to keep Danault and Poehling???

 

[cphabs]

We can have both Danault and Poehling people!!!

I remember a time when we had Keane, Courson, McPhee(loved that guy), Carbonneau, and Skrudland on the same team.

 

[Goldenhands]

Realistically, no we can't.

There's only so much room on a roster and cap wise, it's not efficient at all to have Danault and Poehling, let alone one of those on the third line.

In reality, good management would be like using a 90's push pencil. Look at every position as a pencil, with every player being a pencil lead. Every time a player is starting to wear out, replace him with another one.

Kotkaniemi
Domi
Danault
Evans

to

Kotkaniemi
Domi
Poehling
Evans

To

Kotkaniemi
Poehling
XX
Evans

And so on. Getting emotionally attached to players is one way to run a franchise to the ground. Look at the Patriots and how they're ran, this is smart management and it is the reason why they win every damn year. They have an established core (Brady, Gronk) and they recycle player over and over. Make a career out of Wes Welker, send him out for Edelman.

The same should be said about every position.

The RD side is the other evident one.

Weber
Petry
Benn
Juulsen
Fleury
Brook

To

Weber
Juulsen
Fleury
Brook

To

Brook
Juulsen
Fleury
XXX
XXX

In theory, if you cycle good enough, with good drafting and prime management, you could stay competitive until your core players (In that case, core player, Kotkaniemi, as we don't really have anyone else of this age to be another cornerstone for the franchise.) are retired.

We could always move Domi on the wing and get something like:

Domi Kotkaniemi Suzuki
Drouin Poehling Ylonen
Lehkonen Danault Gallagher
Teasdale McCarron Armia

 

[cphabs]

Damn I just noticed that Poehling has 3 goals in 21 games this year. He had 14 last year.

He is not exactly tearing up the NCAA as a junior

He is a systems/team player that will do what his coach and organization needs. Some mentioned this before. On a side note, he tore up the WJC when his coach/team asked him too play a more offensive role against the best players the world has to offer in his age group. Small sample size? Sure, but he did it. I see a LOT of Carbonneau in him.

 

[Mrb1p]

We could always move Domi on the wing and get something like:

Domi Kotkaniemi Suzuki
Drouin Poehling Ylonen
Lehkonen Danault Gallagher
Teasdale McCarron Armia

Theres more value in moving centers away than playing them on the wing, provided we have the depth for it. Maximizing value is so so so important.

 

[BaseballCoach]

We could always move Domi on the wing and get something like:

Domi Kotkaniemi Suzuki
Drouin Poehling Ylonen
Lehkonen Danault Gallagher
Teasdale McCarron Armia

LOL moving Domi to the wing so that McCarron can play C!!

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Theres more value in moving centers away than playing them on the wing, provided we have the depth for it. Maximizing value is so so so important.

SO you don't want a center in this years draft?

 

[Runner77]

Theres more value in moving centers away than playing them on the wing, provided we have the depth for it. Maximizing value is so so so important.

Not if they possess other attributes, like being able to snipe and score goals. I like the Tampa model of using excess centers on the wings. When you have an injury or a pressing need, you have in-house Cs ready to step in. You can always have a C playing wing but not vice versa.

 

[Runner77]

SO you don't want a center in this years draft?

So we're not drafting the BPA?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

So we're not drafting the BPA?

There are folks advocating a center because they think are center depth is still not good enough, yet don’t want to keep Danault and Poehling because they are too good? Doesn’t make sense.

 

[scrubadam]

You could use the same crappy stats to make your point that DD was a decent first line center when in reality he was not even NHL material... You dont have to be a hockey guru to see that Danault doesnt have the skills to belong on a legit top 6, would be much more suited in a third line center role to shut down the top offensive lines while producing decent third line numbers... He is doing well while Kotka isnt ready to assume a bigger role yet and his line made of 2 fiesty wingers like Tatar and Gallagher is clicking well so Im not saying he is a bad player here, just not a legit second line center on a good team...

Danault is a 2C on a good team TODAY! Habs are sitting in the top 10 right now. He was the teams 1C when we won the division and had the 7th most points in the league. He puts up more EV points than most 2nd line centers and even 1st line centers. For the last 3 years the guy has shown he is at the minimum a 2nd line C.

And as far as DD when he was putting up points with Max those first 3 years he was 100% an NHL player. Its like saying Heatly was never a 1st line winger because after his 2014 season he was out of the league. Players peak and decline. You can't judge a player soley on their decline.

If Danault was not a hab people would be dying to trade for him. Good defensive forward who works hard and puts points up at 5v5, whats not to like?

Sure hopefully one day KK can take the reigns and Danault will be moved down the lineup, but don't disrespect the guy by saying he isn't a legit second line center because he is making you eat your words.

 

[Mrb1p]

SO you don't want a center in this years draft?

Youre making narrative jumps, dont do that.

Not if they possess other attributes, like being able to snipe and score goals. I like the Tampa model of using excess centers on the wings. When you have an injury or a pressing need, you have in-house Cs ready to step in. You can always have a C playing wing but not vice versa.

Its true but keeping a first line C on the wing is prohibitive. They do it with Johnson and Cirelli, they dont just use Point or Stamkos on the wing, that would just not be wise assets management.

There are folks advocating a center because they think are center depth is still not good enough, yet don’t want to keep Danault and Poehling because they are too good? Doesn’t make sense.

You have flaws in reading comprehension.

Adding another C just gives you more trade chips in this scenario. Furthermore, preparing the future isnt a bad move and the aformentioned TBL model can work early in ones career.

Danault is a 2C on a good team TODAY! Habs are sitting in the top 10 right now. He was the teams 1C when we won the division and had the 7th most points in the league. He puts up more EV points than most 2nd line centers and even 1st line centers. For the last 3 years the guy has shown he is at the minimum a 2nd line C.

And as far as DD when he was putting up points with Max those first 3 years he was 100% an NHL player. Its like saying Heatly was never a 1st line winger because after his 2014 season he was out of the league. Players peak and decline. You can't judge a player soley on their decline.

If Danault was not a hab people would be dying to trade for him. Good defensive forward who works hard and puts points up at 5v5, whats not to like?

Sure hopefully one day KK can take the reigns and Danault will be moved down the lineup, but don't disrespect the guy by saying he isn't a legit second line center because he is making you eat your words.

How did that team end up in the POs against a mediocre NYR team? Danault is a pathetic top 6 C. He leeches offense and its easy to see from watching the games.

 

[Goldenhands]

LOL moving Domi to the wing so that McCarron can play C!!

Huh no, so Danault can play 3rd line C... I like the idea to have a big heavy fourth line that can spend more time in the offensive zone to cycle the puck and outmuscle the other teams defensemen, having a such line is a pretty valuable asset since it can make the difference late in a game or in a best of 7 serie...

As for Domi, he is doing well down the middle but in 2-3 years from now when Kotka and Poehling are ready to assume top 6 duties, it might be wise to move Domi back to wing to optimize our line-up...

 

[BaseballCoach]

Huh no, so Danault can play 3rd line C... I like the idea to have a big heavy fourth line that can spend more time in the offensive zone to cycle the puck and outmuscle the other teams defensemen, having a such line is a pretty valuable asset since it can make the difference late in a game or in a best of 7 serie...

As for Domi, he is doing well down the middle but in 2-3 years from now when Kotka and Poehling are ready to assume top 6 duties, it might be wise to move Domi back to wing to optimize our line-up...

Domi is doing well down the middle. He'd be like a 1B centering the 2nd line. Contending teams have a 2nd line calibre center pivoting their third line. If that is Poehling, it's great, if it is Danault, it's great, if we have both, then Poehling would be the elite pivot of a slightly "heavier" line, with say Armia and a LW that complements them, possibly Lehkonen. That line is PRECISELY what you said you wanted, a line that has some size and is excellent on the forecheck - and can pot a few to boot when playing against another team's 3rd pair of D.

The fourth line does NOT have to consist of plugs like McCarron trying to cycle but really just chasing the puck and hitting guys after they have made their pass cleanly.

Say we sign a scorer like Stone and a D like Gardiner as UFAs, and trade a guy like Shaw and a prospect like Vejdemo for Muzzin

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Stone
Drouin-Domi-Suzuki
Byron-Danault-Gallagher
Lehkonen-Poehling-Armia

Gardiner-Weber
Muzzin-Petry
Mete-Juulsen
Kulak or Reilly

Price
Backup

 

[Mrb1p]

Domi is doing well down the middle. He'd be like a 1B centering the 2nd line. Contending teams have a 2nd line calibre center pivoting their third line. If that is Poehling, it's great, if it is Danault, it's great, if we have both, then Poehling would be the elite pivot of a slightly "heavier" line, with say Armia and a LW that complements them, possibly Lehkonen. That line is PRECISELY what you said you wanted, a line that has some size and is excellent on the forecheck - and can pot a few to boot when playing against another team's 3rd pair of D.

The fourth line does NOT have to consist of plugs like McCarron trying to cycle but really just chasing the puck and hitting guys after they have made their pass cleanly.

Say we sign a scorer like Stone and a D like Gardiner as UFAs, and trade a guy like Shaw and a prospect like Vejdemo for Muzzin

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Stone
Drouin-Domi-Suzuki
Byron-Danault-Gallagher
Lehkonen-Poehling-Armia

Gardiner-Weber
Muzzin-Petry
Mete-Juulsen
Kulak or Reilly

Price
Backup

Is there a cap in the Baseball coach NHL? Is it a 100m cap like the business you run?

 

[Goldenhands]

The fourth line does NOT have to consist of plugs like McCarron trying to cycle but really just chasing the puck and hitting guys after they have made their pass cleanly.

Im still one of the few McCarron believers, he clearly improved his speed and was playing really solid consistent hockey this year before his injury... Its becoming pretty late for McCarron but I would re-sign him this summer and see where he is at next camp... We shouldnt give up on a 6'6 monster that is finally showing some real progress that easily...

 

[Goldenhands]

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Stone
Drouin-Domi-Suzuki
Byron-Danault-Gallagher
Lehkonen-Poehling-Armia

Gardiner-Weber
Muzzin-Petry
Mete-Juulsen
Kulak or Reilly

Price
Backup

lol you dont want this believe me...

 

[BaseballCoach]

Im still one of the few McCarron believers, he clearly improved his speed and was playing really solid consistent hockey this year before his injury... Its becoming pretty late for McCarron but I would re-sign him this summer and see where he is at next camp... We shouldnt give up on a 6'6 monster that is finally showing some real progress that easily...

If there is a spot for him, it would be at 4th-5th RW