Prospect Info: Ryan Poehling Part 4 (No MB talk)

[BaseballCoach]

Is there a cap in the Baseball coach NHL? Is it a 100m cap like the business you run?

If you run the numbers, the cap works.

 

[Just Linda]

Domi is doing well down the middle. He'd be like a 1B centering the 2nd line. Contending teams have a 2nd line calibre center pivoting their third line. If that is Poehling, it's great, if it is Danault, it's great, if we have both, then Poehling would be the elite pivot of a slightly "heavier" line, with say Armia and a LW that complements them, possibly Lehkonen. That line is PRECISELY what you said you wanted, a line that has some size and is excellent on the forecheck - and can pot a few to boot when playing against another team's 3rd pair of D.

The fourth line does NOT have to consist of plugs like McCarron trying to cycle but really just chasing the puck and hitting guys after they have made their pass cleanly.

Say we sign a scorer like Stone and a D like Gardiner as UFAs, and trade a guy like Shaw and a prospect like Vejdemo for Muzzin

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Stone
Drouin-Domi-Suzuki
Byron-Danault-Gallagher
Lehkonen-Poehling-Armia

Gardiner-Weber
Muzzin-Petry
Mete-Juulsen
Kulak or Reilly

Price
Backup

The price to get Muzzin will be much, much higher.

Muzzin is significantly better than Gardiner who is a defensive black hole.

We could not afford Gardiner and Stone nor is it likely either sign with us.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The price to get Muzzin will be much, much higher.

Muzzin is significantly better than Gardiner who is a defensive black hole.

We could not afford Gardiner and Stone nor is it likely either sign with us.

I don't know about the likelihood of any one player signing with us but there are seven prize free agents and they are likely going to seven different teams. The Habs might be the only team with space to sign two. Many teams either have no space or no interest.

So I do believe if Marc Bergevin wants one of these seven top free agents, he will have a decent chance to get one.

 

[Just Linda]

I don't know about the likelihood of any one player signing with us but there are seven prize free agents and they are likely going to seven different teams. The Habs might be the only team with space to sign two. Many teams either have no space or no interest.

So I do believe if Marc Bergevin wants one of these seven top free agents, he will have a decent chance to get one.

Paneni and Bobbers have already made it public what they want, Montreal doesn't fit the bill.

EK has given every induction of staying in San Jose

Skinner is open about wanting to stay in the Toronto area or close to it

That leaves Duchene, Stone and Gardiner as the players that the league is bidding on and the first two aren't even guaranteed to hit free agency.

I wouldn't bank on any of those 7 signing here, it isn't wise to put expectations there.

 

[DAChampion]

Paneni and Bobbers have already made it public what they want, Montreal doesn't fit the bill.

EK has given every induction of staying in San Jose

Skinner is open about wanting to stay in the Toronto area or close to it

That leaves Duchene, Stone and Gardiner as the players that the league is bidding on and the first two aren't even guaranteed to hit free agency.

I wouldn't bank on any of those 7 signing here, it isn't wise to put expectations there.

Cap space is the only category in which the Habs are elite.

Bergevin better try and add talent this off season.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Paneni and Bobbers have already made it public what they want, Montreal doesn't fit the bill.

EK has given every induction of staying in San Jose

Skinner is open about wanting to stay in the Toronto area or close to it

That leaves Duchene, Stone and Gardiner as the players that the league is bidding on and the first two aren't even guaranteed to hit free agency.

I wouldn't bank on any of those 7 signing here, it isn't wise to put expectations there.

I didn't have Bobrovsky in my 7 youngish and useful UFAs but did have Gustav Nyquist.

So do you think we will just be a non cap-spending team forever?

 

[Just Linda]

I didn't have Bobrovsky in my 7 youngish and useful UFAs but did have Gustav Nyquist.

So do you think we will just be a non cap-spending team forever?

Nyquist would be a good fit. I could see that happening.

I personally don't care if we spend to the cap or not as long as the team and future of the team look as good as possible.

I'm just realistic in not expecting to be able to get any high end free agents. 30 other teams are going after these players, it puts our team ahead if we can get a Stone signed at a bearable rate but I know we don't have the same advantages as Winnipeg (his home town), Ottawa (where his partner is from) or a tax free state like Dallas. It'd be great if we land one but not wise to build the entire strategy around it.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Nyquist would be a good fit. I could see that happening.

I personally don't care if we spend to the cap or not as long as the team and future of the team look as good as possible.

I'm just realistic in not expecting to be able to get any high end free agents. 30 other teams are going after these players, it puts our team ahead if we can get a Stone signed at a bearable rate but I know we don't have the same advantages as Winnipeg (his home town), Ottawa (where his partner is from) or a tax free state like Dallas. It'd be great if we land one but not wise to build the entire strategy around it.

Agreed that the entire strategy is not built around one UFA signing.

But the strategy CAN be and SHOULD be to get back to being a cap-spending team, as long as the money is spent wisely.

 

[Colezuki]

We could always move Domi on the wing and get something like:

Domi Kotkaniemi Suzuki
Drouin Poehling Ylonen
Lehkonen Danault Gallagher
Teasdale McCarron Armia

good lord is this arousing

 

[Colezuki]

So we're not drafting the BPA?

I mean, it's pretty obvious the organization doesn't draft this way anymore, timmons even said it himself. We draft on asset value and the asset value is in defenseman and Centers. he has some quotes from the draft about it

Personal speculation from my side, I think they have players rated as follows

1.5 Centers
1.25 Defenseman
1 Wingers
0.5-0.75 Goalies (because of price)

Where the number is the value they put as a premium to the position (I.e. a goalie would need to be great to override a center pick)

 

[canadiensnation]

Ryan Poehling shouldn’t be a trade piece for the Montreal Canadiens

Good article here

 

[Just Linda]

Agreed that the entire strategy is not built around one UFA signing.

But the strategy CAN be and SHOULD be to get back to being a cap-spending team, as long as the money is spent wisely.

Nah, we shouldn't worry about being a cap spending team, we should worry about being the best possible team. Trying to send leads to signing players like Alzner

 

[BaseballCoach]

Nah, we shouldn't worry about being a cap spending team, we should worry about being the best possible team. Trying to send leads to signing players like Alzner

I did say to spend the money wisely.

You can't maximize talent if you are far below the cap.

 

[Just Linda]

I did say to spend the money wisely.

You can't maximize talent if you are far below the cap.

Certainly you can.

The 3 teams spending the most on salary this season are not in playoff spots but 4 of the bottom 6 spending teams are.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Certainly you can.

The 3 teams spending the most on salary this season are not in playoff spots but 4 of the bottom 6 spending teams are.

What you said doesn't negate what I said.

Even if there are four teams that are in a playoff spot now that don't spend much, they are still not maximizing talent.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Ryan Poehling shouldn’t be a trade piece for the Montreal Canadiens

Good article here

Correct. If we moved any prospect for help now, it would be stupid, let alone if we moved our top prospect (not counting Kotkaniemi here).

 

[BaseballCoach]

Correct. If we moved any prospect for help now, it would be stupid, let alone if we moved our top prospect (not counting Kotkaniemi here).

Trading Poehling for short-term help is a bad move. But trading him for a similarly young highly-rated left defenceman might be a good move, if such a thing were offered. There are never any absolutes (LOL)!

 

[NotProkofievian]

Trading Poehling for short-term help is a bad move. But trading him for a similarly young highly-rated left defenceman might be a good move, if such a thing were offered. There are never any absolutes (LOL)!

Nah. He's still in that range where he could potentially be a 2C for us. We need that. LD prospects are breaking well for us at the moment, and there's more available in the draft. Only way I trade him now is for an overpayment that is also a center.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I mean, it's pretty obvious the organization doesn't draft this way anymore, timmons even said it himself. We draft on asset value and the asset value is in defenseman and Centers. he has some quotes from the draft about it

Personal speculation from my side, I think they have players rated as follows

1.5 Centers
1.25 Defenseman
1 Wingers
0.5-0.75 Goalies (because of price)

Where the number is the value they put as a premium to the position (I.e. a goalie would need to be great to override a center pick)

This type of thinking probably led to 14 out of 18 NHL teams passing on Mike Bossy in 1977's first round.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Nah. He's still in that range where he could potentially be a 2C for us. We need that. LD prospects are breaking well for us at the moment, and there's more available in the draft. Only way I trade him now is for an overpayment that is also a center.

Poehling could potentially be a 2/3C. But if we got a guy who is pretty sure to be a top-4 LD, I would listen. I don't think that would happen, and I agree that we should NEVER trade Poehling for a rental.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Poehling could potentially be a 2/3C. But if we got a guy who is pretty sure to be a top-4 LD, I would listen. I don't think that would happen, and I agree that we should NEVER trade Poehling for a rental.

I'm more comfortable with our LD situation after our latest draft, and watching our latest development camps. Speaking very long term here but Romanov has broken in our favour, and there are some very intruiging NCAA options potentially this year. As well, there are some decent LD available in this draft.

 

[Runner77]

Ryan Poehling shouldn’t be a trade piece for the Montreal Canadiens

Good article here

I've liked reading a lot of stuff from David Saint-Louis but really, what is he even arguing about? The GM has flat out stated only a couple of weeks ago that he won't be trading any of his best prospects.

How does Poehling not qualify as one of the Habs best prospects?

Saint-Louis claims: "There is one name that has been floating around in proposals — Ryan Poehling."

Who is making these supposed proposals? Fans on social media? He doesn't say.

He's arguing against a position that no one in the mainstream hockey world is seriously pursuing.

 

[Runner77]

I'm more comfortable with our LD situation after our latest draft, and watching our latest development camps. Speaking very long term here but Romanov has broken in our favour, and there are some very intruiging NCAA options potentially this year. As well, there are some decent LD available in this draft.

That's where several of our picks should be going, assuming a lot of those LDs will be BPAs when the Habs's will be making selections.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'm more comfortable with our LD situation after our latest draft, and watching our latest development camps. Speaking very long term here but Romanov has broken in our favour, and there are some very intruiging NCAA options potentially this year. As well, there are some decent LD available in this draft.

Maybe, possibly, hopefully.....that's not good enough.

FACT: We already have 3 NHL calibre centres that are 25 and under.

FACT: We do not have 2 of the top 4 D we need.

CONCLUSION: I'm ok with trading a great prospect that would just REPLACE one of our Cs for player that would improve our LD position now AND for several more years.

 

[OldCraig71]

Cap space is the only category in which the Habs are elite.

Bergevin better try and add talent this off season.