Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie

[Donner]

Oil fan here:

McLeod took a lot of flack on-line for his postseason and this has caused many Oil fans to say hes not a good player, were expecting him to be dumped for not much etc. However, that is mostly becuase his style of play and not being physical, and one or 2 rough games.

McLeod is a good 3rd line player and still room to develop. I forsee his career being something like Beniot Pouliot, where hes a great 3rd liner and can slot into the top 6 at different times. Pouliot also caught a lot of flack, but once he found his role was loved by fans

McLeod puts up great defensive metrics because of his speed and smarts. He doesnt need to play a physical game, because he can beat D in other ways. In addition, he is tremendous at zone exits and one of the best Oilers at doing that. This is a underrated skill by fans, but shows up in the underlying metrics. He gets the puck going the right way

In terms of the price given to acquire him: picks in the 5-15 range most often end up as depth players. Some turn into stars, others busts, but the most likely spot they end up as is as a career depth player. McLeod is that right now and will provide value from day 1. MS could take 3 years to make the same impacts. BUt if you look at any draft, most of the 5-15 drafted prospects dont turn out as hyped

Oilers needed to make this move for cap reasons and also to take on the risk/reward of landing a player that could turn into a top line player at a cost controlled price. They could afford to take on the risk Savoie doesnt turn out. They dont have any projected top line prospects and likely wont given where they draft and that they may trade 1sts in the future. Meanwhile Buffalo has 3-4 players with similiar upside to Savoie

I actually think McLeod is a tremendous target for Buffalo because of age, current ability and upside. Hes super underrated

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

Plenty of Oilers fans didn’t want him as a 3C though:











Lots more of these. All before the trade happened. Acting like we acquired some stud 3C is silly. His advanced stats are good but 99% of Oilers fans would do this trade again.

So a bunch of arbitrarily hand picked comments from fans on x now apparently are truth while actual analytics data is not?

I could show you a post about any trade or player… And pick out posts like this about that player/trade, and the exact opposite perspective from the same response thread.

I could legitimately post 50+ of those tweets. Are some of them idiots who don’t know what they’re talking about? Sure. But I wasn’t even going out seeking just the bad ones. Nearly all comments re: McLeod were that he wasn’t worth his cap hit (2.1m) and isn’t a good 3C.

I don’t think there’s no validity in the amount of responses to McLeods play by Oilers fans. It certainly gives me pause in regards to this trade.

A defensively strong center that scores 30 points ( with potential for more) and is 6 3 with his metrics are not worth 2.1 million? He’s essentially just a tick below and almost equal to Cirelli who’s making over 6 million.

This is Ludacris statement… And if that is their fans mindset, then they are out to lunch

 

[RefsIdeas]

So a bunch of arbitrarily hand picked comments from fans on x now apparently are truth while actual analytics data is not?

I could show you a post about any trade or player… And pick out posts like this about that player/trade, and the exact opposite perspective from the same response thread.

Okay, go ahead and do it for yourself. Go look at what Oilers said on both their boards on here, and what Oilers fans said on Twitter about McLeod before the trade happened. You'll find about 90% negative things, 10% somewhat positive.

Not arbitrarily picked - like I said, I could easily have posted 50 of something similar. Those posts were the first 5 or so directly addressing McLeods play that I saw before the trade. Oilers fans didn't think highly of him and viewed him as a semi cap-dump in the offseason.

I think it's silly that we look at a chart and decide he's good, despite what the majority of Oilers fans say. Do you think that they wouldn't know their player best?

If somebody came on here that's a fan of a different team and said that Owen Power isn't very good because of his charts, would you agree with them or say otherwise?

 

[toddkaz]

 

[RefsIdeas]

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It's truly amazing how quickly a fans narrative can change after something we do. They'll justify it, even if it goes against what they've thought all along.

 

[HOOats]

Okay, go ahead and do it for yourself. Go look at what Oilers said on both their boards on here, and what Oilers fans said on Twitter about McLeod before the trade happened. You'll find about 90% negative things, 10% somewhat positive.

Not arbitrarily picked - like I said, I could easily have posted 50 of something similar. Oilers fans didn't think highly of him and viewed him as a semi cap-dump in the offseason.

He had some rough stretches in the playoffs and they're still licking their wounds from a Game 7 heartbreak. Fans generally tweet to nitpick players and dream on shipping out useful guys for unrealistic adds. See this forum.

Fans generally don't tweet about the little winning plays that players like McLeod make. Fortunately, those plays do show up in the metrics, where he's very good.

I'm comfortable trusting the metrics and the guys who do this for a living on this one over the griping unwashed masses.

 

[RefsIdeas]

He had some rough stretches in the playoffs and they're still licking their wounds from a Game 7 heartbreak. Fans generally tweet to nitpick players and dream on shipping out useful guys for unrealistic adds. See this forum.

Fans don't generally tweet about the little winning plays that players like McLeod make. Fortunately, those plays do show up in the metrics, where he's very good.

I'm comfortable trusting the metrics and the guys who do this for a living on this one over the griping unwashed masses.

You can go ahead and look at what they were saying even before the playoffs.

I think plenty of fans do realize the little plays he makes. I'm not saying he's bad. I don't even think they were saying he's flat out bad. I'm saying he's both not worth Savoie in my eyes, and that he's not a stud 3C. He'll probably be competent at best, but leave you wanting more - especially if you want to go far in the playoffs. Thus leaving a bad taste in my mouth for the trade.

 

[THUNDERBURST]

 

[Dreakon13]

View attachment 893307

It's cute and all, but I'm not totally sure why "the core" and "draft picks" are being used here almost interchangeably. Our core did/does need time and coaching. Savoie was never a part of our core, do you think he was?

 

[HOOats]

You can go ahead and look at what they were saying even before the playoffs.

I think plenty of fans do realize the little plays he makes. I'm not saying he's bad. I don't even think they were saying he's flat out bad. I'm saying he's both not worth Savoie in my eyes, and that he's not a stud 3C. He'll probably be competent at best, but leave you wanting more - especially if you want to go far in the playoffs. Thus leaving a bad taste in my mouth for the trade.

Gotcha. I think we've heard your argument at this point and understand it just fine.

The charts show a solid 3C. He has all the tools to lock that in as his floor and the potential for a bit more. That player was a major need here.

Regarding making long runs in the playoffs, let's just make it first. In a few years if we're a powerhouse, ideally Konsta or Ostlund will be our elite 3C and kick McLeod down to an excellent 3W or 4C making $3M or so.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

 

[RefsIdeas]

Gotcha. I think we've heard your argument at this point and understand it just fine.

The charts show a solid 3C. He has all the tools to lock that in as his floor and the potential for a bit more. That player was a major need here.

Regarding making long runs in the playoffs, let's just make it first. In a few years if we're a powerhouse, ideally Konsta or Ostlund will be our elite 3C and kick McLeod down to an excellent 3W or 4C making $3M or so.

See, that's another thing that just doesn't sit right with me.

McLeod seems like a depth piece a contender acquires. I truly don't think the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year is because we didn't have a competent 3C (we did). We didn't make the playoffs because our best players played poorly. If Thompson + Cozens don't rebound this year, we're sunk.

This seems like a move you make at the deadline to try and make a push, once you've established that your top pieces have returned to form under Ruff.

 

[toddkaz]

It's cute and all, but I'm not totally sure why "the core" and "draft picks" are being used here almost interchangeably. Our core did/does need time and coaching. Savoie was never a part of our core, do you think he was?

We missed the playoffs the other year by 1 point and Adams did nothing at the trade deadline.

The core didn't need more time. Just needed more support.

But hey lets roll the dice again. Lets pretend Adams is a great GM and this was a masterful move.

 

[Beerz]

See, that's another thing that just doesn't sit right with me.

McLeod seems like a depth piece a contender acquires. I truly don't think the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year is because we didn't have a competent 3C (we did). We didn't make the playoffs because our best players played poorly. If Thompson + Cozens don't rebound this year, we're sunk.

This seems like a move you make at the deadline to try and make a push, once you've established that your top pieces have returned to form under Ruff.

You're right we didn't miss the playoffs last year because of a bad 3C .. we had a very good one. But when he was traded we now had a very bad one...and even if Tage and Dylan rebound we probably don't make it with Krebs centering 3rd line and moving up to center 2 if Tage or Dylan is hurt

 

[RefsIdeas]

You're right we didn't miss the playoffs last year because of a bad 3C .. we had a very good one. But when he was traded we now had a very bad one...and even if Tage and Dylan rebound we probably don't make it with Krebs centering 3rd line and moving up to center 2 if Tage or Dylan is hurt

I still don't think this upgrade is worth Savoie for a very questionable playoff team. Especially considering Krebs two most common linemates were Okposo and Girgensons.

 

[GameMisconduct]

Thanks for sharing that. It is interesting to me as much as many people have brought up the playoffs in a negative manner for McLeod, it also seems that it should be noted that 1) he's getting credited for shut down work on Eichel in the 22-23 series and 2) he showed up with more goals than most on his team in the SCF final (not sure there is a bigger stage).

I'm sad to not get a chance to see Savoie, and I'll wish him the best (I'll always have a weakness for any player that flashes Briere qualties/potential--Danny on the Sabres is one of my all time favorites), but I'm pretty happy with the addition we just made to our team in terms of what he brings in abilities and fit, especially with a coach who might actually know how to use those qualities.

 

[Dreakon13]

We missed the playoffs the other year by 1 point and Adams did nothing at the trade deadline.

The core didn't need more time. Just needed more support.

But hey lets roll the dice again. Lets pretend Adams is a great GM and this was a masterful move.

So... you're thinking retooling the bottom 6 or changing the coaching wasn't the right way to go, and they just needed to add Savoie last year to fix things? And that isn't a dice roll?

 

[HOOats]

See, that's another thing that just doesn't sit right with me.

McLeod seems like a depth piece a contender acquires. I truly don't think the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year is because we didn't have a competent 3C (we did). We didn't make the playoffs because our best players played poorly. If Thompson + Cozens don't rebound this year, we're sunk.

This seems like a move you make at the deadline to try and make a push, once you've established that your top pieces have returned to form under Ruff.

Of course we need our best players to perform well. Every team needs that. And our best players have a better chance of returning to form with the support of players like McLeod.

Honestly, I don't see moves from a contending team and a team striving to contend as being so different, especially when addressing a clear hole. We needed a 3C to help neutralize opponents' best players, the same way good teams try to neutralize Tage et al. The three minute clip @Doug Prishpreed posted above mentions McLeod wiping out Eichel in a series and name drops Mike Peca as a usage comp. Those things should mean something to Sabres fans.

We have enough talent to be a playoff team and enough potential talent to be a contender eventually. I'm surprised anyone in our inpatient fanbase would advocate waiting to make the supporting moves for "contention" that may never come without them.

 

[Beerz]

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I still don't think this upgrade is worth Savoie for a very questionable playoff team. Especially considering Krebs two most common linemates were Okposo and Girgensons.

I think if you look at the 2 players usage you could add a little more context to those charts. Krebs KO and Z weren't being matched up with the MacKinnons of the world.

 

[RefsIdeas]

I think if you look at the 2 players usage you could add a little more context to those charts. Krebs KO and Z weren't being matched up with the MacKinnons of the world.

McLeod had a below average QoC for this past season. I don't have Krebs data handy.

 

[Der Jaeger]

People are too in love with Benson. He is a slow skater for his size and has a bad shot. He is not a high-end offensive player.

I had dinner with a bunch of Power Edge Pro coaches last year in Toronto. One of them was Bruins scout Parker McKay. Bruins top three, non-negotiable traits a player must have for a Bruins scout to recommend them:

1. Character
2. Work ethic
3. Hockey IQ

What decisions the Bruins GM and scouting director make notwithstanding, their scouts are not allowed to recommend a player without high grades in those three areas.

When you get focused on size, speed, shot, you end up missing good hockey players. McKay wouldn't tell me exactly, but the Bruins had Benson high on their draft list. A lot higher than 13. That's from an organization that loses Chara, Bergeron, and Krecji and basically doesn't miss a beat over the course of multiple seasons. Maybe they're onto something?

 

[toddkaz]

So... you're thinking retooling the bottom 6 or changing the coaching wasn't the right way to go, and they just needed to add Savoie last year to fix things? And that isn't a dice roll?

No, dont put words in my mouth.

The only thing I am thinking is Adams sucks.

 

[Willgamesh]

I had dinner with a bunch of Power Edge Pro coaches last year in Toronto. One of them was Bruins scout Parker McKay. Bruins top three, non-negotiable traits a player must have for a Bruins scout to recommend them:

1. Character
2. Work ethic
3. Hockey IQ

What decisions the Bruins GM and scouting director make, their scouts are not allowed to recommend a player without high grades in those three areas.

When you get focused on size, speed, shot, you end up missing good hockey players. McKay wouldn't tell me exactly, but the Bruins had Benson high on their draft list. A lot higher than 13. That's from an organization that loses Chara, Bergeron, and Krecji and basically doesn't miss a beat over the course of multiple seasons. Maybe they're onto something?

Character/Work Ethic are things Beane highly values as well and what turned around the Bills.

 

[HaNotsri]

Seems like a good Girgensons replacement long term that can compete for 3C short term and play different positions in the bottom 6.

I think age is a factor when it comes to the trade target. I would have traded Savoie++ for Wild Bill but I suspect Adams wanted someone younger.

I don't like the trade overall but what I do like is that he can cover for our defensemen. Our elite offensive talent is at d so a speedy center can let them lose. PK ability is the other big thing.