Ryan Johansen Watch IV

[IHeartZherdev*]

The difference is Rychel was in his 1st year with the team and had those problems and got knocked of his high horse pretty quick. Joey was a healthy scratch in an AHL playoff game when he had a chance to show his true character, much like Cam and Calvert who in the same playoff series gave it their all. None of those 3 were thrilled to be in the AHL, especially after just missing out on the NHL playoffs, but Joey was the only one who decided to quit.

...And Cam was a healthy scratch multiple times throughout last season in the NHL. He was also called out by his coach for attitude and effort. Porty had reported him having a "rock star attitude." But I guess that doesn't matter because he played his butt off one time in the AHL, right? Nothing is more important right now than those 2013 AHL playoffs.

So Joey's "true character" wasn't on display during the 2014 NHL playoffs? True character can only come out in the AHL?

As far as this statement goes: "The difference is Rychel was in his 1st year with the team and had those problems and got knocked of his high horse pretty quick" that's something you just made up right now. But it also speaks to a pretty weird rationalization on your part...if a player has a problem his first year, all is forgiven, but if a player has a problem his second year, he gets it held against him forever?

 

[Kev22]

I have to say, I've been on this board for a long time now, and I don't think I've ever seen a thread that has become more juvenile than this one. It really isn't good back and forth, it's become more *****ing and personal jabs. Everybody should get two minutes for being a keyboard hero. Joey getting signed and the season starting can't happen soon enough.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

A couple of thoughts about the "Springfield incident".

As my username implies, I'm a big fan of the Cincinnati Cyclones of the ECHL. Over the past 8 years, I've had an opportunity to interact very closely with the coaching staff and some of the players on the team. As an aside, it's one of the great perks of lower level hockey. Accessibility to the players and coaching staff is quite easy.

I've seen many players on ELCs get sent to the ECHL over the years. It's not a pleasant thing for them. These kids are on NHL deals making in the $100,000-$140,000 range. While many of them understand that they're not NHL ready, they want to be in the AHL and not riding the bus to Wheeling, WV. When they get sent down-especially midseason-many of them are not happy campers.

While some put on the happy face and get on with their business at hand-playing hockey in the ECHL-others sulk and can be difficult for a while. It's very normal. So, when Johansen flashed some attitude when he was sent to the AHL, it was understandable. For me not to acknowledge that given my experience wasn't This is not to say that it is acceptable not to give one's best effort when one is under contract. It is, however, to say that it's not an unusual reaction. I've seen many players get scratched due to "not getting with the program" after a send down.

There have been a fair number of players over the years who have expressed an unwillingness to play for the Cyclones in the playoffs who were eligible and whose AHL seasons had ended. It's not as if these players had vested interests in the Cyclones as a team. They'd played a few games in Cincinnati and were playoff-eligible but not part of the team in any meaningful sense.

Reading too much into Johansen's attitude with respect to his minor league banishment is a mistake. I made it.

 

[CentreKeeper12]

...And Cam was a healthy scratch multiple times throughout last season in the NHL. He was also called out by his coach for attitude and effort. Porty had reported him having a "rock star attitude." But I guess that doesn't matter because he played his butt off one time in the AHL, right? Nothing is more important right now than those 2013 AHL playoffs.

So Joey's "true character" wasn't on display during the 2014 NHL playoffs? True character can only come out in the AHL?

As far as this statement goes: "The difference is Rychel was in his 1st year with the team and had those problems and got knocked of his high horse pretty quick" that's something you just made up right now. But it also speaks to a pretty weird rationalization on your part...if a player has a problem his first year, all is forgiven, but if a player has a problem his second year, he gets it held against him forever?

And I'm quite sure if the FO doesn't trade Cam then the incident in question will be looked at with his contract talks next off-season. You have too look at the whole body of work you have not just pick and choose what you want and go with it

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Well, Z, if it is not a "sure thing" that RyJo will be the leading scorer, why should they be paying him like it is a sure thing he will be the leading scorer? See, once a contract is signed, and they start paying Joey, the amount they pay him is not "penciled in" so that it can be lowered if he does not perform as the leading scorer. Now since you have admitted that he may not be the leading scorer this year, do you understand why the Jackets are now wiling to break open the bank for Joey base upon one good year? Silly me, of course you don't.

You got me EDM. I'm totally advocating that Jarmo breaks into a bank, and then unload all of the bank's money into a truck that POHOP JD backs up to the vault. Then they drive straight to Vancouver and dump the money on RyJo's driveway.

I'm also totally silly for not being able to 100% guarantee Joey's numbers and predict the his future exactly. I can't believe you got me to admit there could be a chance that Joey isn't the leading score! You win!

I'm so embarrassed I will now confess I had Steven Stamkos penciled in as the leading goal scorer and MVP last year. It didn't happen! I'm totally wrong at guessing the future, I didn't even see that broken leg coming!

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

And I quite sure if the FO doesn't trade Cam then the incident in question will be looked at with his contract talks next off-season. You have too look at the whole body of work you have not just pick and choose what you want and go with it

Why would the front office want to trade Cam? He gave it his all in the 2013 AHL playoffs which by your standards, should hold more weight than what occurred during the 2014 NHL season.

I'm not picking and choosing anything, I'm just not obsessing over one small event when gauging an entire body of work.

 

[CentreKeeper12]

Why would the front office want to trade Cam? He gave it his all in the 2013 AHL playoffs which by your standards, should hold more weight than what occurred during the 2014 NHL season.

I'm not picking and choosing anything, I'm just not obsessing over one small event when gauging an entire body of work.

I never said it mattered more, i said it something that has to be taken into account. And when its something like that quitting when things don't go your way, that weighs heavy.

 

[thebus2288*]

Also - Dubi being matched up against Crosby for defensive purposes doesn't make Dubi our number one center....Dubi isn't our number one center, I don't even understand how you could make that argument. Sami Pahlsson often matched up against top offensive players because of his defensive ability.

Matchups are not typically done top line vs top line. At least not necessarily done that way. Thus why a traditional third line is often referred to as a shut-down line.

The combination of Dubi's offensive and defensive game makes him our "1st line" or best center. Dubinsky's offensive game is on a completely different level than what Pahlsson ever had. I'd also argue he's just as good if not better than him defensively. How can we make the argument that Dubi is a better OVERALL player than Johansen? Look at their offensive numbers from the past 2 years. Look at the time on ice. The stats even say we WERE a better team in 2012-13. Even this past year Johansen played a handful more games then Dubinsky and he didn't finish THAT far ahead of him. And Johansen loaded up on the PP points.

I mean look at this. Dubi is actually out there against Crosby AND Malkin. Granted there are other players out there to "cover" Malkin, but you get the point.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

Everyone is cherry picking arguments on both sides. Clearly it can be argued that Johansen could be worth $3M a year on a bridge deal, or $6M on a long term deal, depending which stats you want to post.

If we are just talking young centers who got bridge deals we have the Duchene and Stepan contracts. $3.25 x 2 looks perfectly fair.

If we are talking the recent string of bridge contracts, not just including centers (Schwartz, Smith, Krug, Dillon), $3.25 x 2 looks perfectly fair. Schwartz is the only one in that group that I think is on par with Johansen talent-wise - But he did get about half of what Overhardt is asking. Thats how all of these RFA contracts have panned out for the last few years - everyone is always surprised by how low the contract is, relative to talent level, or based on one year of performance.

Something that was surprising to me was that Dillon offered $1.9M x 1 on Wednesday, and accepted $1.25M x 1 on Thursday... If a 750K difference was overcome in a day, we should be able to get over 1.5M in two days, right?

If we are talking the 6 year deals - RNH, Tavares, Seguin, Benn - the 6 year 32M offer was probably a little lower than those comparables (IMO 6 year 36M is the standard that Edmonton set). Toews signed 6.3M x 5 after seasons of 54, 69, and 68 points - and after being Captain for 2 years.

With all these offers public, I would be interested in what Overhardt's counter offers were for the 6 and 8 year deals.

One thing that I cannot get behind is Overhardt's stance that RFA/UFA does not matter. For Jackets fans, this was the difference between Nash getting 5.4 x 5 as an RFA, and 7.8 x 8 as a UFA, even though he didnt have better numbers after his second contract. Anyone looking at the numbers knows that third contracts are generally higher than second contracts.

I think something eventually gets done here with Johansen not missing more than a few games.

However, I don't think Johansen will make the difference between starting the season 5-0 or 0-5. I think the importance of star players gets overblown here because we are on a message board and what the hell else are we gonna do, if not be dramatic?

 

[thebus2288*]

Ovechkin might be the best OFFENSIVE player in the league but he's definitely NOT the best OVERALL player. Johansen is our best OFFENSIVE forward but he's NOT our best OVERALL player.

 

[pete goegan]

I have to say, I've been on this board for a long time now, and I don't think I've ever seen a thread that has become more juvenile than this one. It really isn't good back and forth, it's become more *****ing and personal jabs. Everybody should get two minutes for being a keyboard hero. Joey getting signed and the season starting can't happen soon enough.

All the above.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

The combination of Dubi's offensive and defensive game makes him our "1st line" or best center. Dubinsky's offensive game is on a completely different level than what Pahlsson ever had. I'd also argue he's just as good if not better than him defensively. How can we make the argument that Dubi is a better OVERALL player than Johansen? Look at their offensive numbers from the past 2 years. Look at the time on ice. The stats even say we WERE a better team in 2012-13. Even this past year Johansen played a handful more games then Dubinsky and he didn't finish THAT far ahead of him. And Johansen loaded up on the PP points.

The Jackets are very fortunate to have good defensive centers all around. AA, BD and RJ (I hate this abbreviation) are all very good players.

Dubinski and Johansen were pretty even on the defensive side in +/-
offensive zone starts, finishes and differential.

You can argue that they are very similar defensively. Not going to quibble with that.

On offense, you're plain wrong. Johansen had 20 power play points compared to Dubinski's 10. But, Johansen and Dubinski played the same amount on the PP per game on average 2:38 (RJ) to 2:36 (BD). In points per 60 minutes generated on the PP, Johansen was 4.68 compared to Dubi's 2.50. Johansen was 87% more point productive on the PP than Dubinski.

Johansen scored 33 goals to Dubinski's 16. Goals are much more valuable than assists. Dubinski's career high in goals was 24. Not much to compare here. Johansen clearly superior.

Your team stat "work" isn't, well, factual. The 2012-13 produced 1% more standings points per game than last year's team. Last year's team produced 2.81 goals per game vs. 2.50 in the lockout year. 13% more productive.

And go ahead and do the 2 year stats on the two if you think that they're relevant in any way. They're not, so I won't waste my time...except for..... Well, in goals Johansen had 38 compared to 18 for Dubinski...more than double.

By the way, did you know that Wiz was 7th among all defensemen in points scored last year?

 

[thebus2288*]

So last regular season and the playoffs weren't indicative of his character and the Springfield experience (after the end of the Jackets season) was?

Last season dispelled any of the issues I had with character. It was very easy for me to put the AHL thing in the rear view mirror.

What does scoring the amount of points he did, or playing responsibly defensively in a contract year, have anything at all to do with who he is as a person? Or is it the way he celebrates goals that defines his character? You and IHZ keep harping on the way some of us are "attacking" his character and the type of person he is, when that's not what we're doing at all. All we're doing is bringing up the few LEGIT incidents in his career that you could get any read on who he is as a professional. On ice performance is NOT one of them. Unless it's Carter-like bad.

Nobody is saying he's a diva, or that he'll regress into a bad player, or that we don't want him. All that's being said is that WE NEED to see this level of play for more than 1 year to commit BIG bucks LONG term. That's another thing that's bothering me. You keep attempting to hate on JD and JK, or say they "lost" the negotiation because they offered him a long term contract. Again, the issue is not that we don't think he'll be a good player in 5 years, its that we just don't know how good. AAANNDD the fact that he wants ridiculous money compared to even what he showed last year.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

What does scoring the amount of points he did, or playing responsibly defensively in a contract year, have anything at all to do with who he is as a person? Or is it the way he celebrates goals that defines his character? You and IHZ keep harping on the way some of us are "attacking" his character and the type of person he is, when that's not what we're doing at all. All we're doing is bringing up the few LEGIT incidents in his career that you could get any read on who he is as a professional. On ice performance is NOT one of them. Unless it's Carter-like bad.

Nobody is saying he's a diva, or that he'll regress into a bad player, or that we don't want him. All that's being said is that WE NEED to see this level of play for more than 1 year to commit BIG bucks LONG term. That's another thing that's bothering me. You keep attempting to hate on JD and JK, or say they "lost" the negotiation because they offered him a long term contract. Again, the issue is not that we don't think he'll be a good player in 5 years, its that we just don't know how good. AAANNDD the fact that he wants ridiculous money compared to even what he showed last year.

I think IHZ has made the case for Johansen with respect to character quite well. The only thing that I'd add is that I am completely unaware of anything the Johansen did last season which demonstrated low character. Fill me in if you know of anything.

A little anecdote. I have a buddy of mine who was very overweight and not much of a student all the way through his sophomore year of high school. In the summer between his sophomore year and his junior year, he lost all of his excess weight and his grades improved dramatically thereafter. 35 years later, he's still at his high school graduation weight (the *******) and graduated with honors with an advanced degree from a prestigious university.

Point is: Some people-especially younger-can change dramatically. I don't think there was any body of evidence that implied that Johansen had a ton of character issues. I don't know if you read my post about my ECHL experiences, but it's very relevant to the only character issue that's ever been brought up about Johansen regularly.

In terms of YOU needing to be shown more for him to get a long term deal, that's OK. But JD and JK know how good he is. They're just being cheap. Real cheap.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I hope this is the case. I am having dead horse night-mares.

Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

 

[thebus2288*]

Johansen scored 33 goals to Dubinski's 16. Goals are much more valuable than assists.

I'm not arguing that Dubinsky is better than Johansen offensively. What I'm questioning is how much better some of you seem to think Johansen is. Nothing with a decimal point will change my opinion. And that's just false about goals being more valuable then assists. Not many goals are unassisted. Show me how many of those 33 were unassisted. And yes I remember Montreal AND the celebration. It was a terrible turnover.

Your team stat "work" isn't, well, factual. The 2012-13 produced 1% more standings points per game than last year's team. Last year's team produced 2.81 goals per game vs. 2.50 in the lockout year. 13% more productive.

WHAT? How is "more standings points per game" not factual? The shortened year was unique but its not any less important just because Johansen had a pretty poor year. I love your 13% more productive FACT though.

And go ahead and do the 2 year stats on the two if you think that they're relevant in any way. They're not, so I won't waste my time...except for..... Well, in goals Johansen had 38 compared to 18 for Dubinski...more than double.

I really don't understand how you can feel that nothing other than last year is relevant to all of this. I understand it's your only leverage to hype up Johansen, but it really makes NO sense. He'd be the only player in professional sports history that his prior seasons had no relation to his future contracts. And my god there's more to hockey than scoring goals.

By the way, did you know that Wiz was 7th among all defensemen in points scored last year?

And please lets keep this on topic. There's a Wiz thread for you to read about me *****in about him.

 

[NotWendell]

This doesn't make any sense. I know you're all in on the JD Kool-aid, but um, saying we don't need any key players? Really? And who cares about if Joey is the captain or not?

Bob is our most important player because he's the goalie, but um, how is our number one center, main goal scorer and playmaker, not a "key player" and how on earth is not having key players feasable for a winning team?

It makes perfect sense. What you said was flat out wrong and I called you out. Frankly, it's getting old.

 

[frivolousz21]

I am really happy for you guys to have JD and Jarmo on board.

I know having this guy pull this crap is tough as a fan emotionally.

The Jackets haven't had any sustained success yet and now your team is right there and one of your best players a big part of your future core and present rise to a perennial playoff team and hopefully contending status is making outrageous contract demands.


Don't worry. He will eventually cave. He simply has no other choice. If RJ chooses to sit out a year or end up playing a partial season in the KHL it would be way way way more financially devastating to him.

Even if he ends up being such a big jackass he drags this out into November he will cave before he has to sit out the year.


I personally hope you guys start out really hot start like 10-2-1 or something. That would be just epic while RJ is sitting at home.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Didn't Sobotka go to the KHL over something like a $300,000 dispute? I didn't really follow that - and obviously not comparing the two - just another RFA case this summer. Went to arbitration or I think so the Blues still hold his rights?

 

[KJ Dangler]

Everyone is cherry picking arguments on both sides. Clearly it can be argued that Johansen could be worth $3M a year on a bridge deal, or $6M on a long term deal, depending which stats you want to post.

If we are just talking young centers who got bridge deals we have the Duchene and Stepan contracts. $3.25 x 2 looks perfectly fair.

If we are talking the recent string of bridge contracts, not just including centers (Schwartz, Smith, Krug, Dillon), $3.25 x 2 looks perfectly fair. Schwartz is the only one in that group that I think is on par with Johansen talent-wise - But he did get about half of what Overhardt is asking. Thats how all of these RFA contracts have panned out for the last few years - everyone is always surprised by how low the contract is, relative to talent level, or based on one year of performance.

Something that was surprising to me was that Dillon offered $1.9M x 1 on Wednesday, and accepted $1.25M x 1 on Thursday... If a 750K difference was overcome in a day, we should be able to get over 1.5M in two days, right?

If we are talking the 6 year deals - RNH, Tavares, Seguin, Benn - the 6 year 32M offer was probably a little lower than those comparables (IMO 6 year 36M is the standard that Edmonton set). Toews signed 6.3M x 5 after seasons of 54, 69, and 68 points - and after being Captain for 2 years.

With all these offers public, I would be interested in what Overhardt's counter offers were for the 6 and 8 year deals.

One thing that I cannot get behind is Overhardt's stance that RFA/UFA does not matter. For Jackets fans, this was the difference between Nash getting 5.4 x 5 as an RFA, and 7.8 x 8 as a UFA, even though he didnt have better numbers after his second contract. Anyone looking at the numbers knows that third contracts are generally higher than second contracts.

I think something eventually gets done here with Johansen not missing more than a few games.

However, I don't think Johansen will make the difference between starting the season 5-0 or 0-5. I think the importance of star players gets overblown here because we are on a message board and what the hell else are we gonna do, if not be dramatic?

Your post will get glossed over because you, like many of us, point out just how redicolous, ryjo and his agent are . Asking for a 6.5 mill 2 year bridge is an utter joke, he missed all of camp , and has caved over 2 mill per season in his demands. Meanwhile comparable are manning up and playing for the contracts established under the Cba that the players agreed to. Honestly this has been a bad black eye on behalf of ryjo and makes u wonder if this isn't another example of self entitlement , something the jackets have worked hard to get rid of that atmosphere . Solid post my man

 

[frivolousz21]

Didn't Sobotka go to the KHL over something like a $300,000 dispute? I didn't really follow that - and obviously not comparing the two - just another RFA case this summer. Went to arbitration or I think so the Blues still hold his rights?

Yeah kind of.

He wanted a 1 year 3 million dollar deal.

The blues offered a 1 year 2.7 mil deal and longer deals with 3 to upwards of 3.5 to 3.7 mil avv for 5 years.

Sobotkas issue wasn't money it was ice time and term. He wants to be a 2nd line center and he wanted a 1 year deal because he would be a UFA next year if signed that deal.

Once the blues signed Stastny and Lehtera that ensured he was going to be used as a 3rd line center or even 4th line center but probably get top PK mins and some 2nd PP mins.

But he sees himself as more, he believes he can score more while playing his two way game and being an elite face-off guy.

I really like the guy. Losing him sucks. It doesn't really hurt the team per say. The depth for sure.

While he is an elite face-off guy and a great possession guy.

He can't stay healthy so far playing mostly 60 games a year and he has never scored even 10 goals in a season. with his highest PPG last year around .51.


I really do hope the Jackets start out blazing if RJ won't get his head on straight.

RJ has a career .5PPG. He can't expect to get paid the way he wants as an RFA who hasn't been offer sheeted.

He can take a fair bridge deal. Prove his worth the next couple of years and be 24 yrs old with only two years of RFA left and get a 8 year 8-9 mil AVV.

If he is a solid 30G 60-70P Center and improves his two way play he would get 8-9 mil AVV in two years.

He is also a good face-off guy.

He might turn into a 55-57% a year guy by the time he is 24 as well. With a solid two way game and 30G 60-70P. He easily gets 8-9 mil avv.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

It makes perfect sense. What you said was flat out wrong and I called you out. Frankly, it's getting old.

Kings, Blackhawks, Bruins, Penguins, Red Wings, Ducks, Hurricanes.

These are the most recent Cup winning teams. All had clear cut number one centers. Not seeing one that just had a collection of "solid" players but no "key" players.

I believe you do need stud, key players to go deep in the playoffs and to win a championship. Every team that does has them. It's true, you can win games with solid role players, good defense, and playing a "grinding style" - especially in the regular season - the Wild and Blues and Coyotes have been examples of that, and even the Jackets one year. But it's been awhile now since the trap era Devils and you need stud, "key" players. Johansen is well on his way to being that. I'm not sure I can think of many teams that made deep playoff runs or won the cup without any key guys leading the way. I know for sure I don't want to be the Winnipeg Jets with no stud players going nowhere year in and year out.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

Your post will get glossed over because you, like many of us, point out just how redicolous, ryjo and his agent are . Asking for a 6.5 mill 2 year bridge is an utter joke, he missed all of camp , and has caved over 2 mill per season in his demands. Meanwhile comparable are manning up and playing for the contracts established under the Cba that the players agreed to. Honestly this has been a bad black eye on behalf of ryjo and makes u wonder if this isn't another example of self entitlement , something the jackets have worked hard to get rid of that atmosphere . Solid post my man

I mean I can understand Johansen's camp saying that they are only asking for 4.5M x 2, which is under market value for a #1C. But until about January or February, he wasnt even in that discussion.

And there are plenty of teams out there that don't pay their top center $4.5M.
Bozak - 4.2M
Stepan - 3.075M
Whoever you want to call Calgary's top Center (Highest paid forward makes $4M)
Turris - 3.5M
Hodgson - 4.25M / Ennis - 4.6M (Bridge deal was worth 2.81M after entry level of 9pts in 10 gms, 49 in 82, and 34 in 48) (92pts in first 140 games)
Vermette - 3.75M
Fisher - 4.2M
Little 4.7M now - 2.383M x 3 after entry level

I hate even bringing up all of those figures, because half were on their third contract. The main young RFA centers who got bridge deals have been beaten to death (Duchene, Stepan)

I must not have been paying much attention to the Thrashers, but Bryan little got drafted,
spent a year in juniors, where he put up good numbers (116 points in 65 games),
then put up 50 goals in 2 and a half seasons (.242 GPG)... Including a 31 goal season
(101 points in 206 games (.490 PPG))
Then signed a RFA deal for under perceived #1C market value.

Ryan Johansen got drafted,
spent a year in juniors, put up good numbers (120 points in 84 games),
then put up 47 goals in 2 and a half seasons (.248 GPG)... Including a 33 goal season
(96 points in 189 games (.507 PPG))

However, Ryan Johansen is substantially taller.

Little has also not eclipsed 24 goals since his 31 goal sophomore season. Atlanta/Winnipeg would be losing a fair amount of money if they signed him to 6-7M long term

 

[CBJRzeznik]

Kings, Blackhawks, Bruins, Penguins, Red Wings, Ducks, Hurricanes.

These are the most recent Cup winning teams. All had clear cut number one centers. Not seeing one that just had a collection of "solid" players but no "key" players.

I believe you do need stud, key players to go deep in the playoffs and to win a championship. Every team that does has them. It's true, you can win games with solid role players, good defense, and playing a "grinding style" - especially in the regular season - the Wild and Blues and Coyotes have been examples of that, and even the Jackets one year. But it's been awhile now since the trap era Devils and you need stud, "key" players. Johansen is well on his way to being that. I'm not sure I can think of many teams that made deep playoff runs or won the cup without any key guys leading the way. I know for sure I don't want to be the Winnipeg Jets with no stud players going nowhere year in and year out.

NYR Cup Finalists last year with Stepan as 1C at approx 3 mill/year on a bridge deal....Boy that sounds familiar.. where have we heard that deal for a young 1C proposed recently I guess "stud" goaltending (Lundqvist) tends to count for something for teams that go deep in the playoffs as well. But clearly the 1C position is the only key as you try (in futility to any rational person) to make your point....god this is so tiresome to read...

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

NYR Cup Finalists last year with Stepan as 1C at approx 3 mill/year on a bridge deal....Boy that sounds familiar.. where have we heard that deal for a young 1C proposed recently I guess "stud" goaltending (Lundqvist) tends to count for something for teams that go deep in the playoffs as well. But clearly the 1C position is the only key as you try (in futility to any rationale person) to make your point....god this is so tiresome to read...

OK, well, my comment was in response to someone that said the team could win without Ryan Johansen and team doesn't need to have any "key" players.

Bridge contracts and goaltending had nothing to do with the discussion point. You should go back and read the initial comments before decided to argue with a post.

I never said goaltending wasn't important, or that the 1C position was the only key, or any of this other nonsense. I just disagreed with the assessment that the CBJ could win and be fine without Joey and that they don't need "key" players. I listed cup winners and contenders to back up this opinion, as those teams seem to be built around key players (yes, that includes but is not limited to, a 1C)

That said, if you doubt the importance of the 1C position, how did the Jackets do before Johansen took over the 1C spot? 0 playoff wins and 1 playoff berth in 10 years. How did teams without solid 1Cs do last year? Did Caglary, Phoenix, New Jersey, Winnipeg, Buffalo, Florida, Nashville have solid 1C's last year? No, they didn't. Again, it's NOT the only thing but it's pretty gawd dern important.