Ryan Johansen II (contract etc)

[db2011]

If $3.5-4 million is a poor initial offer, can you explain:

Derek Stepan signed a 2 year bridge deal last summer

2013-14

$2.3 million​

2014-15

$3.85 million​

Chris Kreider signed a 2 year bridge deal this summer
2014-15

$2.35 million​

2015-16

$2.35 million​

Brayden Schenn signed a 2 year bridge deal this summer
2014-15

$2.25 million​

2015-16

$2.75 million​

Sean Couturier signed a 2 year bridge deal this season
2014-15

$1.5 million​

2015-16

$2.0 million​

Then of course there are examples in the recent past like

Matt Duchene - 2 year bridge deal avg annual value $3.5 million
Logan Couture - 2 year bridge deal avg annual value $2.875 million

Johansen is more valuable than some of these examples, but is he worth double? triple?

You misread me. I said it's a poor offer unless it's an initial offer, aka an offer deflated to allow for negotiating for something higher. Joey compares favorably to those guys and will wind up being the best of the lot, I think. I'm not really clear about the inclusion of Couturier and Schenn in this list anyway, as they don't seem very comparable.

 

[CBJRzeznik]

that if (size of if being the arguing point) you believe RJ is a cannot miss #1C bringing 80+ pts every year, then the better approach would have been to ink him to long term at $6M +/-. /QUOTE]

To believe that Joey is a cannot miss 80+ pts every year is not too bright. If you back that up by committing to a 7 year deal which I'm guessing would cost at least a 7.5 AAV it goes from not bright to pretty much idiotic.

Give him the next two years to show that he is continuing to get better each year then give him the 7 year deal, even if it costs Subbanesque $'s.

This....Though I wouldn't go so far as to call it idiotic (strong choice of words) the sentiment is consistent with the "show it for 2 years consecutively" mentality and it also seems to be consistent w/ the same line of thought the CBJ FO is bringing to the negotiation

 

[BluejacketNut]

The difference in comparisons with players from other teams, is where they are in the franchise. Joey is the #1 player on the team....at 22. None of the others are the #1 player on their team. Joey is the holy grail that this team has been searching for since its inception; an elite franchise center talent that is already 6'3 220+lbs at 22 years old, lead his team in scoring and we seem to be tossing it around carelessly.

And the difference in comparison with Mason is that goalies are much different. Mason wasnt the 1st, and wont be the last rookie goalie to take the league by surprise, and then struggle the next few years (or forever) once they have a book on them. Bobs bridge contract is the comparison for that risk, not the forward IMO as far as regression goes.

Im sure the caps going to go up and there's times where you need to take a risk. Im willing to take the risk with what I see in Johansen, and he's worth far more then $3.5m

 

[Sore Loser]

We should trade him to the Islanders and watch them sign him to a 100 year contract.....and then watch him loaf the rest of his career.

Beautifully put. Who was it they traded for Yashin again? Oh yeah, Chara, Muckalt (meh), and the pick that became Jason Spezza.

/senswin

 

[EDM]

I think the CBJ initial offer of $3.5 allows upward bargaining to probably $4.5 million x 2 =$9 million which is a heck of a pay day for a young player and easily at the high end for this type of contract negotiation. Of course we cannot be sure because of the ridiculous tactic of Joey and his agent apparently refusing to budge from $ 7 million per year. I understand why the Jackets have not bothered to move up from their initial offer when Joey will not even return to Planet Earth to continue the dialogue.

 

[EDM]

BJN, I understand your view but I do not agree that Joey IS the BlueJackets. And I am thinking and hoping that JD and JK feel the same way. A kid who has had motivational issues and puts up one good year, in his contract year, is not and cannot be viewed as the essence of the team.

 

[EDM]

Z, in post 739 you again show your basic tactic of distorting what I said and then relying upon your close dating relationship with the Eternal One to support your otherwise unsupportable positions. No surprise.

I get it, every one gets it. You think after one good year Joey can be relied upon for 80 points per year. And of course, after Rick Nash won a scoring title in his third(?) year, he was guaranteed to lead the league every year after that, right? But then he got that fat contract and ....

Others disagree with you. Sorry you can't deal with that without talking to your buddy up there in the clouds.

 

[Dr. Fire]

I think management is waiting for Johan to return to Columbus too really hit the negotiations hard. If he doesn't come back as part of a hold-out, I think that would be very poor judgement on Johan's part. Not that he has shown a lot of good judgement so far.

 

[DJA]

I think management is waiting for Johan to return to Columbus too really hit the negotiations hard. If he doesn't come back as part of a hold-out, I think that would be very poor judgement on Johan's part. Not that he has shown a lot of good judgement so far.

He's already back in town and working out with the team.

 

[thebus2288*]

So time on ice is the ultimate measure. Good grief.

Of the Jackets forwards he ranked second in TOI. Dubinski average 18:46, Johansen 17:38, Asinimov 16:35.

Johansen only average 0:42 shorthanded compared to Dubinski's 2:09 and Asinimov's 2:05. ES + PP TOI was Johansen 16:56, Dubinski 16:37, Asinimov 14:30. So, Johansen logged the most TOI of CBJ forwards in non short handed situations.

That seems to indicate that Todd Richards felt he was the Jackets most valuable forward.

Time on ice is a way better way to look at it value or importance than the "numbers" you think are important. A goal scored AGAINST the Columbus Blue Jackets while they're on the penalty kill is no less important than a goal scored FOR the Columbus Blue Jackets on a powerplay. Because Dubi played more OVERALL and more time on the PK indicates that Richards felt that Johansen was more valuable?? That's really what those numbers tell you?

"Non short handed situations"? I've literally never heard that one before. You get that from Biss or Dellow? Or a different Corsi site?


Here's a quick little goal value chart for some of you to look over:

Goals SCORED(order of value/importance): Shorthanded, Even Strength, Powerplay
Goals AGAINST(order of value/importance): Shorthanded, Even Strength, Powerplay

 

[EspenK]

Here's a quick little goal value chart for some of you to look over:

Goals SCORED(order of value/importance): Shorthanded, Even Strength, Powerplay
Goals AGAINST(order of value/importance): Shorthanded, Even Strength, Powerplay

Last time I looked a goal for was good; a goal against bad.

Until they start awarding more for certain kinds of goals I'm going to stick with that and all these facacta stats can be left to others.

 

[BluejacketNut]

BJN, I understand your view but I do not agree that Joey IS the BlueJackets. And I am thinking and hoping that JD and JK feel the same way. A kid who has had motivational issues and puts up one good year, in his contract year, is not and cannot be viewed as the essence of the team.

I didnt say he IS the Jackets, i said he's the best player on the team, i dont think there is any debate in that at all.

 

[Sore Loser]

Last time I looked a goal for was good; a goal against bad.

Until they start awarding more for certain kinds of goals I'm going to stick with that and all these facacta stats can be left to others.

Yes, agreed... by that analogy, a guy like Alex Ovechkin (51 goals, 0 SHG)or Corey Perry (43, 0) is worth far less than Daniel Winnik (6g, 2 SHG) ... because you know, even strength and powerplay goals are worth less on the scoreboard.

Give me a break...

 

[jordanwill21]

I didnt say he IS the Jackets, i said he's the best player on the team, i dont think there is any debate in that at all.

Bobrovsky??......

 

[Jackets16]

I didnt say he IS the Jackets, i said he's the best player on the team, i dont think there is any debate in that at all.

I don't agree at all. He may be the best player and that may happen as early as this year, but he isn't the best player right now.

 

[Dr. Fire]

He's already back in town and working out with the team.

Yea, I saw that after I posted. Oh well.

 

[EDM]

Well there is debate on that.

 

[CREW99AW]

We should trade him to the Islanders and watch them sign him to a 100 year contract.....and then watch him loaf the rest of his career.

And have to pay him more then Tavares($6m), who's been a more productive player?

nah.

 

[Sore Loser]

And have to pay him more then Tavares($6m), who's been a more productive player?

nah.

Some people can't comprehend sarcasm. Or at least understand when their team has made some terrible management decisions, and people like to roast them for it.

 

[CREW99AW]

Some people can't comprehend sarcasm. Or at least understand when their team has made some terrible management decisions, and people like to roast them for it.

And yet, despite some terrible management decisions the isles have a talented young core, one of the deepest prospect pools in the league, an ironclad 25 yr Brooklyn lease and incoming new owners.

Roast away. Just please don't give Johansen $7m after 1 big season.
I hope to see Okposo signed to a $5.5m-$6m per extension next summer.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I don't agree at all. He may be the best player and that may happen as early as this year, but he isn't the best player right now.

Who is the best player now?

 

[Jackets16]

Who is the best player now?

Bobrovsky and Dubinsky. Johansen will likely be the best player and soon, but Dubinsky, Bobrovsky, and Murray won't be far behind. That is just including guys who are currently on the team.

 

[Sore Loser]

And yet, despite some terrible management decisions the isles have a talented young core, one of the deepest prospect pools in the league, an ironclad 25 yr Brooklyn lease and incoming new owners.

Roast away. Just please don't give Johansen $7m after 1 big season.
I hope to see Okposo signed to a $5.5m-$6m per extension next summer.

Believe me, nobody wants to see the Islanders succeed more than me. But, until they prove capable of developing those prospects and putting together a decent run (sans the goons they continually try to run with), they will always just be the Islanders.

 

[3074326]

Well there is debate on that.

What is this in reference to? Johansen working out with the team?

 

[Crede777]

I don't agree at all. He may be the best player and that may happen as early as this year, but he isn't the best player right now.

I'd say he was the best player for the Jackets last season. Bob was the best player the lockout year.

A number of players could be our "best" player this year. Could be Johansen, could be Bobrovsky, could be Murray, could be Johnson or Dubinsky, or it could be someone from the field.