RW Yegor Chinakhov (2020, 21st, CBJ)

Podkolzin, on the other hand, what? He is still 19 and he 6 points in 10 games in KHL playoffs. Talking about a ruined career is laughable.

So you want to take the KHL playoffs over the past two seasons where he's failed to establish himself as a top 6 player? Since when is it a good idea to make grandiose proclamations based on the playoffs? If the consensus was that Podkolzin isn't top 6 or even top 9 NHL ready prior to the playoffs, 6 points in 10 playoff games doesn't make him NHL ready.
 
So you want to take the KHL playoffs over the past two seasons where he's failed to establish himself as a top 6 player? Since when is it a good idea to make grandiose proclamations based on the playoffs? If the consensus was that Podkolzin isn't top 6 or even top 9 NHL ready prior to the playoffs, 6 points in 10 playoff games doesn't make him NHL ready.
Yes but you are the one who draws this "top-6 player" line. Look at guys like Maltsev or Trenin. They could hardly make SKA roster yet they are NHL regulars. Even your very namesake, Mr. Pavel Buchnevich wasn't really top-6 forward on SKA before moving to NA. It's not as cut and dry as you are trying to paint it.

Now if I think someone like Chinakhov should stay in the KHL for longer - sure. Is it a career-ruining move if he doesn't? Hardly. Do I believe Podkolzin can contribute at the NHL level next year - absolutely. Would he play in the top-6? No.
 
Yes but you are the one who draws this "top-6 player" line. Look at guys like Maltsev or Trenin. They could hardly make SKA roster yet they are NHL regulars. Even your very namesake, Mr. Pavel Buchnevich wasn't really top-6 forward on SKA before moving to NA. It's not as cut and dry as you are trying to paint it.

Now if I think someone like Chinakhov should stay in the KHL for longer - sure. Is it a career-ruining move if he doesn't? Hardly. Do I believe Podkolzin can contribute at the NHL level next year - absolutely. Would he play in the top-6? No.

Maltsev and Trenin did go through the NA minors. Are they top six guys? And there are always going to be players who make it to the NHL going that route. I don't think it's in any way advisable. Throwing two names out there who have little relevance to this discussion doesn't exactly enhance your point.

Bringing up Buchnevich is laughable. He was the best forward for Cherepovets. SKA traded for him at the trade deadline of his final season, and barely used him. They had one spot left in their top six. Two wingers arrived at the deadline, Gusev and Buchnevich. Gusev came a week or two earlier, got the first shot at the top six spot, and played great. Buchnevich never got a chance to earn a top six spot. He was clearly a top 6 KHL'er, and had proven that at his previous club. Claiming he left too early shows you don't know what you are saying. Looking at stats of his stop with SKA might suggest that, but anyone who followed his KHL career knows that the SKA stats were an anomaly and context explains why. Really weak example on your part.

I'm not suggesting that Podkolzin, Kravtsov, Chinakhov can't have NHL careers because they left Russia, will leave or could leave Russia before they are established enough in the KHL, but its absolutely not advisable for a first round pick, and having an NHL career isn't the same thing as having a successful NHL career. I don't think the path's we see Kravtsov and Podkolzin going down and likely going down, respectively, are all that favorable. I think we know what the likely end result will be in both cases.
 
Maltsev and Trenin did go through the NA minors. Are they top six guys? And there are always going to be players who make it to the NHL going that route. I don't think it's in any way advisable. Throwing two names out there who have little relevance to this discussion doesn't exactly enhance your point.
Not going into the whole big thing so just two quick points:

1. Me throwing in Trenin or Maltsev is in no way different than you throwing in Podkolzin. Is he in any way, shape, or form a similar player to Chinakhov? What do they have in common other than a somewhat similar draft position? Since it was my initial question I just have to repeat it: how is Podkolzin any kind of example in this case, especially for a ruined career path? You are just throwing him in there because "you think you know what the likely result would be".

2. Again, bringing up Buchnevich is no more laughable than bringing up Podkolzin. Do you really believe Podkolzin wouldn't have been a top-6 forward for Cherepovets? Or Amur? Or Neftekhimik? Or any number of other teams? If you treat top-6 forward on Severstal and top-6 forward on SKA the same way your whole cut-off point of "established top-6 forward" makes no sense. And that's what I'm saying. Not that he left too early. And how ignorant it is to say "the SKA stats were an anomaly" while completely ignoring Podkolzin plays for the very same team and is in a very similar situation.

Also, it's somewhat hilarious you write "you don't know what you're saying" to me in a paragraph where you completely rework the truth to fit your narrative. When I'm fairly sure you know perfectly well I do know what I'm saying.
 
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Not going into the whole big thing so just two quick points:

1. Me throwing in Trenin or Maltsev is in no way different than you throwing in Podkolzin. Is he in any way, shape, or form a similar player to Chinakhov? What do they have in common other than a somewhat similar draft position? Since it was my initial question I just have to repeat it: how is Podkolzin any kind of example in this case, especially for a ruined career path? You are just throwing him in there because "you think you know what the likely result would be".

2. Again, bringing up Buchnevich is no more laughable than bringing up Podkolzin. Do you really believe Podkolzin wouldn't have been a top-6 forward for Cherepovets? Or Amur? Or Neftekhimik? Or any number of other teams? If you treat top-6 forward on Severstal and top-6 forward on SKA the same way your whole cut-off point of "established top-6 forward" makes no sense. And that's what I'm saying. Not that he left too early. And how ignorant it is to say "the SKA stats were an anomaly" while completely ignoring Podkolzin plays for the very same team and is in a very similar situation.

Also, it's somewhat hilarious you write "you don't know what you're saying" to me in a paragraph where you completely rework the truth to fit your narrative. When I'm fairly sure you know perfectly well I do know what I'm saying.

1. If I didn't explain it before, I'll explain it now. If you look at the forwards to be drafted first round the last five drafts out of Russia, the list is is Rubtsov, Kostin, Kravtsov, Denisenko, Amirov, and Chinakhov. The latter two you can't take much yet other than they had respectable D+1 seasons in the KHL. The first four I think we can start looking at their career trajectory. Rubtsov is a bust already. Kostin might've been drafted 31st, so not a huge bust if he doesn't pan out, but projecting him to be top 6 is probably unrealistic, and even top 9 might not be very likely. It's too early to call Kravtsov and Denisenko busts yet, but they weren't as good early on as some expected, and I think heading to NA was the wrong option for both. With Kravtsov, I think it's already been proven to have been the wrong option.

Of those first four first round picks, what they all have in common is they went to NA before they established themselves as good KHL players. I don't think a player needs to be the best player in the KHL before they enter the NHL. But I think they should be good enough that they can stick in an NHL top 6, or at minimum top 9 on a team that will keep them 3rd line with PP time. I think the context always matters, but I would say that a player should be scoring at at least a 2/3 to a 3/4 rate in the KHL per season before they leave for the NHL to be ready for that top 6/at minimum top 9 role.

With a player like Podkolzin, he might be able to score at that rate on a team that will play him as much as Chinakhov plays, but he's not. He's in a less than optimal situation. I don't think the solution though is to leave for NA, and try to play a grinder's role for Vancouver because they are poorly built, and are willing to rush him into the NHL. I think the best solution is to ask for a trade to another KHL team, and sign for 2/3 more years. With Kravtsov, he should've never signed an ELC after his D+1 season. He was rushed. I would still say he should play in the KHL until he shows he's NHL ready. I don't know if thats one more season, two, or he'll never be NHL ready, but right now he's not NHL ready.

I think Chinakhov, and Amirov for that matter, want to avoid the situations of these four players. I think they are a good example of what not to do, even though there are some differences in how they play. I still think though that they should want to be good/very good KHL'ers before they leave to NA because they should want to come to NA ready to step in and impact the NHL.

2. In this discussion I didn't even comment on how Podkolzin would play for another KHL team until this post, so to say I'm deliberately trying to spin a narrative is disingenuous. As I said above, I believe he could be productive for a better team, but he's not on a different team. The answer to a lack of proper development is not to try to skip all development entirely because hypothetically he's talented enough to have developed well with a different team. I think the answer is that unfortunately he's a little behind schedule due to the lack of development. Maybe after one more KHL season he'd be really good on another team, and it wouldn't have set Podkolzin back too much, but I absolutely think it's the wrong decision and will further hurt his career to sign with Vancouver.
 
What you are saying now is fairly reasonable points. The issue was that few posts ago you said Podkolzin is the most disappointing pick of his draft and his career is already ruined.
 
:teach:




implication
/ɪmplɪˈkeɪʃ(ə)n/

noun
plural noun: implications
  1. 1.
    the conclusion that can be drawn from something although it is not explicitly stated.

Good then. You admit I didn't say those words.

I absolutely do stand by what I said that Podkolzin has been the most disappointing so far of the top ten picks from 2019, mostly because he doesn't really play very much, and he's in a difficult situation at SKA. Most disappointing pick of the draft is a different discussion that I haven't taken the time to think about.

I also believe the end result of running to North America before you have proven yourself to be a good KHL player for these players, Podkolzin included, has a statistically likely conclusion. That doesn't mean he's already ruined. There are always outliers.
 
Yeah, he is playing regular minutes for Champion contender in the 2nd best league in the world. His role might even expand next season.

Columbus should leave him where he is for another season. It's in their best interest.
 
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Yeah, he is playing regular minutes for Champion contender in the 2nd best league in the world. His role might even expand next season.

Columbus should leave him where he is for another season. It's in their best interest.

He's already agreed to sign after the finals
 
He's already agreed to sign after the finals
yeah but if the team can loan him back for a year it would be in everyones best interest. Likely better than low minutes in Columbus or signing a 3 year deal in the KHL. Im assuming the AHL is not an option for him
 
yeah but if the team can loan him back for a year it would be in everyones best interest. Likely better than low minutes in Columbus or signing a 3 year deal in the KHL. Im assuming the AHL is not an option for him

Not sure that its in everyone's best interest.
 
The next questions are

-does Chinakhov mind playing in the AHL?
-would he be loaned back to Omsk?

He is a well-rounded player so I could imagine him winning a job in Columbus in training camp, but it would most likely be a depth role, and I can't imagine that is best for developing his scoring/playmaking ability.

Toronto has already loaned Amirov back for next season, and I wouldn't mind if Chinakhov was handled the same way. But in Chinakhov's case he is more NHL ready and I doubt he would accept being loaned back now, he wants his shot in camp. I hope he accepts playing in the AHL.
 

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