RW Tyler Boucher - Belleville Senators, AHL (2021, 10th, OTT)

[Isaac Nootin]

But let's also remember that Crouse spent his D+1 and D+2 years in the OHL with a career high of 62 points in the OHL. We now get to see if Boucher can match that type of production over what's left of the next two seasons in the OHL. Can he be a PPG game in the OHL this year, and slightly better next year? That is what Crouse did, so we will see.

Crouse was in the NHL in his D+2, no? He was drafted, played one more OHL season and then played in Arizona. That 62 point career high was also in 49 games, context matters.

Regardless, Boucher is much better suited for the OHL game, and should put up numbers roughly similar to Crouse in his D+1 (1.27 ppg).

Is he supposed to play in their next game (whenever that is)? I know tonight's game vs. Hamilton is ppd.

 

[ottawah]

Crouse was in the NHL in his D+2, no? He was drafted, played one more OHL season and then played in Arizona. That 62 point career high was also in 49 games, context matters.

Regardless, Boucher is much better suited for the OHL game, and should put up numbers roughly similar to Crouse in his D+1 (1.27 ppg).

Is he supposed to play in their next game (whenever that is)? I know tonight's game vs. Hamilton is ppd.

I'd be ecstatic with 1.27, but given covid, new team/league mid season I'd be pleased with 1.0 per game.

 

[Breakers]

Grass is greener prospects want to ignore holes in their game until finally someone gets through to them. Seen it so many times before with prospects.

 

[SenzZen]

Tyler Boucher to Join 67’s - Ottawa 67s

 

[GTA]

 

[Gliff]

I’ve always been impressed with Ottawas drafting but this pick is mind boggling and has gotten worse since it was made.

 

[elitepete]

Rare miss by Ottawa

 

[Blacephalon]

Rare miss by Ottawa

Wacky pick. Dunno what they were thinking. Still early but looking quite bad.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Main success story was Keith in 2002-2003 - moved from Michigan State to Kelowna midseason, went to the Mem Cup, then turned pro with Rockford the following season. Other players who had some success include Charlie Coyle, Jamie Oleksiak. Tyler Pitlick, Chuck Kobasew, Jujhar Khaira & Kevin Connauton.

Also noteworthy, although not entirely relevant, was in 2011, where every 1st rounder who was NCAA-committed at the time of the draft decommitted for the CHL. JT Miller & Connor Murphy decommitted before ever joining their programs & Oleksiak & Biggs left after 1yr.



Probably not. Lots of speculation that CLB (11) and NYR (15) had him at or near the top of their list. His father, who is both tapped in and generally realistic when talking about his son, said they were pretty sure he'd go in the 15-20 range (maybe 15-25? Can't remember the exact wording).

Should the Sens have had Boucher (at least) 10th on their list? Probably not. Given that they did, was it realistic that they could move down to 20th OV and still get the guy they had ranked top 10? Almost certainly not.

Maybe they could have leveraged 10OV into Boucher + a 3rd rounder, but they might have lost him and not gained much. Again, this all rests on the fact that they had Boucher top 10 - a position that I will not argue in favour of, but a reality of the situation.

So happy we ended up with Othmann.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Wacky pick. Dunno what they were thinking. Still early but looking quite bad.

It's not just Boucher either. Went off the board taking Ostapchuk at 39 and Roger at 49, and those picks are not looking promising at this stage.

Probably a combination of a mandate from management to focus on players that "fit" the team identity (big, fast and physical) and Mann believing his own hype after several of his off-the-board picks have turned out to be major steals.

 

[HSF]

still early...not looking great

 

[TkachukNorris79]

I think the sens scouting staff values their viewings more than rankings from other scouts etc.. 2021 was the worst draft year for real in-person viewings and it's really showing in their draft. Not much to like, I wish they just took Cossa or Wallstedt, or traded the 10th.

He is 19 and has missed quite a few games, but not looking great right now. Wild considering they knocked it out of the park with their 3 1sts in 2020.

 

[Samsquanch]

I’ve always been impressed with Ottawas drafting but this pick is mind boggling and has gotten worse since it was made.

Rare miss by Ottawa

Appreciate this as a Sens fan because its true. We can almost singlehandedly thank him entirely for drafting our current core group of players, and for pushing hard for Norris when a trade came up. Its more than any team can ask for, and two of the very best of them (Sanderson and Pinto) have yet to even show the league how brilliant a scout he is.

And you are allowed to get creative when you've excelled at running the show at the draft. Your given that luxury and the benefit of the doubt

Having said that, he reaaaaaaly seemed to like Boucher, so some yet to be determined reason. - and it looks pretty damn bad as of today.... Ill give it time still, and in reality it took Tom Wilson 5-6 years to move from a 3rd/4th liner into a bruising and intimidating top 6 PWF.

But Trent Mann might need to check his ego going forward, and take this is a learning lesson in that he might not always be the smartest guy in the room, and better calculate and weight his odds against the draft pick that the team is given.

Lesson learned for Mann going forward (i hope)- a top 10 pick is not the pick to get "creative" on. Teams dont get many of those, and a failure at that spot is a spectacular fail of a gamble that doesnt look good.

 

[ponder]

Appreciate this as a Sens fan because its true. We can almost singlehandedly thank him entirely for drafting our current core group of players, and for pushing hard for Norris when a trade came up. Its more than any team can ask for, and two of the very best of them (Sanderson and Pinto) have yet to even show the league how brilliant a scout he is.

And you are allowed to get creative when you've excelled at running the show at the draft. Your given that luxury and the benefit of the doubt

Having said that, he reaaaaaaly seemed to like Boucher, so some yet to be determined reason. - and it looks pretty damn bad as of today.... Ill give it time still, and in reality it took Tom Wilson 5-6 years to move from a 3rd/4th liner into a bruising and intimidating top 6 PWF.

But Trent Mann might need to check his ego going forward, and take this is a learning lesson in that he might not always be the smartest guy in the room, and better calculate and weight his odds against the draft pick that the team is given.

Lesson learned for Mann going forward (i hope)- a top 10 pick is not the pick to get "creative" on. Teams dont get many of those, and a failure at that spot is a spectacular fail of a gamble that doesnt look good.

I agree in general, although not fully with “play it safe with top 10 picks.” Off the board can work with high picks, you just really, really need to do your due diligence, and be damn confident about it. For example, Seider at 6 or Scheifele at 7 were excellent picks that were quite off the board.

As for Boucher, as you noted I wouldn’t write him off just yet. Boldy is a recent example of a guy who started out his D+1 similarly slow to Boucher, then started killing it. If his poor showing continues throughout the rest of the season, and into the start of next season, then sure, bust. But for now it’s a pretty small sample size.

 

[Samsquanch]

I agree in general, although not fully with “play it safe with top 10 picks.” Off the board can work with high picks, you just really, really need to do your due diligence, and be damn confident about it. For example, Seider at 6 or Scheifele at 7 were excellent picks that were quite off the board.

As for Boucher, as you noted I wouldn’t write him off just yet. Boldy is a recent example of a guy who started out his D+1 similarly slow to Boucher, then started killing it. If his poor showing continues throughout the rest of the season, and into the start of next season, then sure, bust. But for now it’s a pretty small sample size.

I could have sworn that you were a rabid Leafs fan that polluted every Senators thread - but I seriously must be mistaken (the avatar.. holymakinaw mayhaps?).

Lmao whatever, appreciate the great post. And I wont disagree at all. The Senators literally did the same thing with a more valuable pick the year before, and picked Sanderson at #5.

Now as of today even Scott Wheeler from the athletic (who was the biggest critic of the Sens taking Sanderson there) is able to say today that the Sanderson >> Drysdale and the best dman from that draft, despite not even debuting yet....

I liked Boucher more than most Sens fans did/do. I acknowledge that he wasnt as big a reach as some would have you believe (his agent knew he was going top 20). My biggest concern for him today is the injury situation, and specifically his shoulder issues.

Those dont typically get better, and if hes got glass shoulders, then his best weapon just got nullified if he has to adapt his game. An injury prone Boucher is damn near useless, and not a player to plan/build around at all.

Having said that, if Boucher did hit his potential as a 2nd/3rd line bruising winger with speed and a shot, of course he was worth his draft spot at #10. As of today though Im much more skeptical that happens than I was after the draft.

 

[MS]

I’ve always been impressed with Ottawas drafting but this pick is mind boggling and has gotten worse since it was made.

It's not just Boucher either. Went off the board taking Ostapchuk at 39 and Roger at 49, and those picks are not looking promising at this stage.

Probably a combination of a mandate from management to focus on players that "fit" the team identity (big, fast and physical) and Mann believing his own hype after several of his off-the-board picks have turned out to be major steals.

Ottawa's 2021 draft is shaping up to be one of the worst in NHL history. And not just in hindsight either.

It looks like a team loading up on size at the 1989 draft - total stone age stuff. Wonder about the influence of Pierre McGuire.

 

[SensontheRush]

Ottawa's 2021 draft is shaping up to be one of the worst in NHL history. And not just in hindsight either.

It looks like a team loading up on size at the 1989 draft - total stone age stuff. Wonder about the influence of Pierre McGuire.

McGuire was hired after the draft.

Sens have had worse drafts than 2021; 2014 is a joke of a draft, and I doubt that's the worst draft EVER.

I trust the coach of the 67's Dave Cameron when he says that Boucher's character and drive are such strengths that he will be a future NHLer. I know these aren't traditional "skills" but they really should be considered.

The problem with the 2021 draft is it follows our 2019 and 2020 drafts, which are producing almost straight flushes of NHL talent.

 

[MS]

McGuire was hired after the draft.

Sens have had worse drafts than 2021; 2014 is a joke of a draft, and I doubt that's the worst draft EVER.

I trust the coach of the 67's Dave Cameron when he says that Boucher's character and drive are such strengths that he will be a future NHLer. I know these aren't traditional "skills" but they really should be considered.

The problem with the 2021 draft is it follows our 2019 and 2020 drafts, which are producing almost straight flushes of NHL talent.

McGuire was hired on July 12 and the draft was on July 23-24.

There are drafts that are bad with hindsight and there are drafts that are bad because the team has few high picks (your 2014 Ottawa draft is an example of this).

Drafts that are this spectacularly bad right from the day of the draft including a top-10 pick and three top-50 picks are very rare.

 

[Gliff]

McGuire was hired after the draft.

Sens have had worse drafts than 2021; 2014 is a joke of a draft, and I doubt that's the worst draft EVER.

I trust the coach of the 67's Dave Cameron when he says that Boucher's character and drive are such strengths that he will be a future NHLer. I know these aren't traditional "skills" but they really should be considered.

The problem with the 2021 draft is it follows our 2019 and 2020 drafts, which are producing almost straight flushes of NHL talent.

Ottawas first pick in 2014 was the 40th overall. Not the 10th.

Also I think it is worse because the players taken in the 15 picks after him have looked great for the most part.

 

[HSF]

Ottawa's 2021 draft is shaping up to be one of the worst in NHL history. And not just in hindsight either.

It looks like a team loading up on size at the 1989 draft - total stone age stuff. Wonder about the influence of Pierre McGuire.

i doubt a guy hired (from out of the league) 10 days before the draft has influence on who we take 10th overall.

 

[MS]

i doubt a guy hired (from out of the league) 10 days before the draft has influence on who we take 10th overall.

Maybe? I don't know.

There was clearly some sort of organizational plan to get heavier/stiffer that lines up with a lot of what McGuire has spouted over the years. Total U-turn from their 2020 draft.

 

[Vector]

i doubt a guy hired (from out of the league) 10 days before the draft has influence on who we take 10th overall.

Let me introduce you to the owner of the Ottawa Senators...

 

[Peasy]

Maybe? I don't know.

There was clearly some sort of organizational plan to get heavier/stiffer that lines up with a lot of what McGuire has spouted over the years. Total U-turn from their 2020 draft.

Exact same shit happened for the Leafs when Lou took over. Their drafts were dramatically different, and down right horrible. His years of GM produced the Leafs with 0 players, minus the obvious picks like Matthews. He had them taking someone like Korshkov over DeBrincat. Just big defence men that couldnt skate. It was brutal. Hopefully Pierre isn't doin something similar and its a one off.

 

[SensontheRush]

Ottawas first pick in 2014 was the 40th overall. Not the 10th.

Also I think it is worse because the players taken in the 15 picks after him have looked great for the most part.

0 players coming out of a draft where you don't have a 1st round pick seems worse to me than nabbing a bottom 6 player with the 10th OV pick, at least you got something.

There is an organizational focus on "roles" right now. For Ottawa, I don't think any of those 15 prospects are "can't miss" prospects. We have our spots on the PP locked down, there would be no room for what Sillinger has to offer, who I think is the obvious "biggest miss".

I get that you can always try to trade for a Boucher in the future for less value than a 10th OV pick, but there is still no guarantee that that is the case. You don't know if you'll have a partner for the dance.

 

[SensontheRush]

McGuire was hired on July 12 and the draft was on July 23-24.

There are drafts that are bad with hindsight and there are drafts that are bad because the team has few high picks (your 2014 Ottawa draft is an example of this).

Drafts that are this spectacularly bad right from the day of the draft including a top-10 pick and three top-50 picks are very rare.

No, that 2014 draft was bad because they failed on every single pick. They even had a top 50 pick, which is noteworthy apparently.

Famously, Bryan Murray took over for Muckler before the 2007 NHL draft, let the scouts do their thing that year, and then promptly cleaned up shop when he realized (that summer pretty much) that they just did the shittiest job imaginable.

So, woops on my part, but I don't think you have much to stand on either. McGuire was still being shown the ropes. I'm certain you've gone through the on-boarding process; you weren't making organizational defining decisions after a week.

It really is still speculative at this time. It looked spectacularly bad right from the day of the draft under certain interpretations, sure, I'd agree. These interpretations being the perceived lack of skill of the players and the sheer indifference to central scouting rankings of prospects. This first point diminishes as time progresses, while I don't know how to properly assess this second one. I haven't compared the Sens behaviour to every other organization, but they sure were the most liberal when it came to selecting the players they really wanted at any cost.

I just feel at this point, I can replace every time you use the word bad about the Sens 2021 NHL draft with the word unconventional.