We get it, you're a Rocco Grimaldi fan but this post is absolutely outrageous. For every St. Louis, Fleury, Gionta and Gerbe (who's done what exactly in the NHL?) there are an endless amount of 5'6" hockey players that were dynamos at some level but eventually were just too small to compete at another level. Grimaldi's not just short, he's 5'6", I really doubt a team in the first half of the first round rolls the dice on someone that small. It would be one hell of an accomplishment for someone that small to be a first rounder at all.
RW Rocco Grimaldi (2011, 33rd overall, Florida)
- Thread starter William H Bonney
- Start date
We get it, you're a Rocco Grimaldi fan but this post is absolutely outrageous. For every St. Louis, Fleury, Gionta and Gerbe (who's done what exactly in the NHL?) there are an endless amount of 5'6" hockey players that were dynamos at some level but eventually were just too small to compete at another level. Grimaldi's not just short, he's 5'6", I really doubt a team in the first half of the first round rolls the dice on someone that small. It would be one hell of an accomplishment for someone that small to be a first rounder at all.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
How is it "madness" to suggest that an extremely talented and hard-working player like Grimaldi can be a NHL success story despite his size? Is there never going to be another Martin St. Louis or Brian Gionta?
This is madness:
You can't even say stuff like that about Larsson or RNH, let alone Grimaldi. And to claim that his size doesn't affect his play... that's just got to be a joke.
He's one of the more interesting prospects in this draft and one I'm sure will be a center of debate as June approaches.
The size thing will draw comps to St. Louis and Fleury but in reality I don't think it's fair to:
1. Compare him to those players or;
2. Say they were few and far between so thereby with those odds in mind his projection falls off.
As it's really a case by case basis and pointing to outliers from both sides of the argument doesn't do justice to Grimaldi. Players who are lacking in the physical tools usually need to be not good but great to make it at the highest level. I personally think Grimaldi's skill set can be argued as "great" but for the duration of this year and for a few more seasons he is going to have to prove time and time again that he can bring multiple high-level tools to the table and handle the physicality aspect of the pro game.
A point that he's not 5'8 or 5'9 is valid as the number of 5'6 players to have any sort of lengthy NHL careers are very small.
Fleury was 5'6, Bobby Lalonde 5'5, Gionta is 5'7 and so was Mats Naslund. However Grimaldi's 17 year of age so there's always a chance he can grow an inch or two.
Going forward though with Rocco I think using historical data will be somewhat helpful in forming arguments but player development is an individual thing. It's about what Rocco's skills are, what he projects to be, and what the risks/development path is for him.
The size thing will draw comps to St. Louis and Fleury but in reality I don't think it's fair to:
1. Compare him to those players or;
2. Say they were few and far between so thereby with those odds in mind his projection falls off.
As it's really a case by case basis and pointing to outliers from both sides of the argument doesn't do justice to Grimaldi. Players who are lacking in the physical tools usually need to be not good but great to make it at the highest level. I personally think Grimaldi's skill set can be argued as "great" but for the duration of this year and for a few more seasons he is going to have to prove time and time again that he can bring multiple high-level tools to the table and handle the physicality aspect of the pro game.
A point that he's not 5'8 or 5'9 is valid as the number of 5'6 players to have any sort of lengthy NHL careers are very small.
Fleury was 5'6, Bobby Lalonde 5'5, Gionta is 5'7 and so was Mats Naslund. However Grimaldi's 17 year of age so there's always a chance he can grow an inch or two.
Going forward though with Rocco I think using historical data will be somewhat helpful in forming arguments but player development is an individual thing. It's about what Rocco's skills are, what he projects to be, and what the risks/development path is for him.
Aaron Vickers
FCHockey
There is that chance he will grow a bit more yes, but I dont think its likely. Like the article stated, he's not blessed with great genes in terms of height. He is already taller than his old man!
That said, I cant wait until June to see when he is taken.
Anyone know the record for the shortest top-10 or first round pick ever taken?
I believe it was Samsonov, 8th overall at 5'8 in 1997. Kane went 1st overall but that's subjective if you consider 5'10 "short".
I second that you're nuts to take him from picks 5-10. I think that a lot of GMs will be salivating over this kid, but each one thinks that the other 29 GMs won't pick him that high or even have him on the board at all. I think you'll see a team trade up for a late 1st, early to mid 2nd rounder and snatch him up. Even the teams that pick 5-10 and really like him, if they have a competent GM, will draft a kid like say... Ryan Murphy, who is guaranteed to not last past the 10 slot and trade up to snatch Grimaldi later.
On draft day, any player with Grimaldi's size and talent will be a gigantic game of chicken, thus surely disqualifying him for those lottery picks.
RobertKron
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2007
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To say that ANY 17 year old's low-end projection is Gionta, a 50-60pt player with a 48 goal season under his belt, is madness. Unless they meant Stephen.
To claim that someone is very likely to be a Marty st. Louis type player, and their low end is Brian Gionta, and then to say that this makes them a 5-10 pick does not compute and shows a total ignorance of how good and rare those types of players are.
Madness would be if I said Danny Ehlrich had St Louis potential. I dont expect people to agree with me, but having seen him play many times, and the way he plays, I have my opinion.
I didnt say I think he goes 5-10 overall, just said I would take him there.
Grimaldi may be the most skilled player in the draft, and could arguably be the hardest working player in the draft, and one of the smartest and most relentless players also in this draft. Combining those qualities, it would be really tough to bet against a player, regardless of size. I do agree it would take a big set of balls to draft him that high. But its a testament to how good he really is. This fall a 5-6 player started projecting in round 1. Now you see him moving higher in projections to top 20 on some. He is an outlier, and an exception to the rule. How many players under 5-8 have we seen projected as 1st rounders? None that I can remember. To me this insists, hes not only ultra talented, but projects very highly at the next level.
I didnt say I think he goes 5-10 overall, just said I would take him there.
Grimaldi may be the most skilled player in the draft, and could arguably be the hardest working player in the draft, and one of the smartest and most relentless players also in this draft. Combining those qualities, it would be really tough to bet against a player, regardless of size. I do agree it would take a big set of balls to draft him that high. But its a testament to how good he really is. This fall a 5-6 player started projecting in round 1. Now you see him moving higher in projections to top 20 on some. He is an outlier, and an exception to the rule. How many players under 5-8 have we seen projected as 1st rounders? None that I can remember. To me this insists, hes not only ultra talented, but projects very highly at the next level.
Madness is declaring something as if it is a statistical probability ; when infact it is something relatively unlikely.
If you had just said Grimaldi is a talented prospect who warrants attention as a decent NHL prospect i wouldn't have a problem with it. But you're suggesting he is already an outlier. He isn't. Until he has had NHL success he isn't an NHL outlier.
His coach on the U-18 team has already compared him to Brian Gionta, so I guess he is showing total ignorance too.
I understand St Louis and B Gionta's success at the NHL level is the exception to the rule, and they are considered outliers. Im also saying that you have to consider Grimaldi an outlier too. Not based on any kind of NHL success, but the fact that he is projected to get drafted much higher then any other player under 5-8 in my memory. Basically, its a testament to his talent, and his potential that some experts pin him as a first rounder, which I cant remember a player under 5-8 being, in the last 20 years. That being the case, there are some very intelligent people in the game of hockey that think Grimaldi has a good chance to eventually be one of the outliers like St Louis and B Gionta.
I highly doubt that his coach said that Grimaldi will at the very least have a Brian Gionta-type career, rather he was probably talking about the way he plays.
There's a difference between comparing him to a player and saying that's the worst possible projection for him. The worst possible projection is a guy that goes over to play in Europe and never makes it in the NHL.
RobertKron
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2007
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I'd love to see the quote where his coach says that his lowest potential is to be Brian Gionta.
BringTheReign
Registered User
I played on his ice and roller hockey teams as a squirt and peewee and played against him in bantam before he moved to the midwest. Hell of a hockey player, and despite his small size he is a feisty SOB from what I remember.
Fozz
Registered User
Being that small doesn't make it impossible to have a great NHL career but, let's face it, it does makes it more difficult.
As for the ranking, I notice that Xavier Ouellet isn't in your first 60. Where do have him ranked?
As for the ranking, I notice that Xavier Ouellet isn't in your first 60. Where do have him ranked?
Pick Six
@Lafortune_FC
Just behind Murphy as one of the most overrated 2011 draftee, IMO. He's got a ton of talent, but even if he is 5-6 (players are never what they're listed at), only a couple of players have been even drafted that have been under 5-8, let alone gone high in the first round. I'm not doubting he'll get picked, but I'd be very surprised if he made the first round.
A lack of size scares NHL GM's, this isn't new news.
A lack of size scares NHL GM's, this isn't new news.
For those wondering about his exact measurements, there is an objective tool out there in Central Scouting. And they have him at 5'6" 163.
Id love to see where I wrote that his coach commented on his lowest potential. No good coach would ever put that out there, and I didnt say he did. He compared him favorably to Brian Gionta, because he was a coach with the Devils previously.
My point on the projections is there is always an optimistic approach. When Hugh Jessiman was drafted high in 03, Im sure you could say he projects to be (just examples off the top of my head, not a true comparison) a Ryan Smyth at the high end or a Mike Grier at the lower end. No one would say he projects to be a Ryan Smyth or an AHL goon, even if that is what he has become.
Man, you can't even follow your own logic, can you?
That's why people thought you were being crazy.
Liquid Gel
Pierogi eater
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