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RW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) III

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supermann_98 said:
Yeah with Nurse as their #1D, welcome back to the top 5 in the 2017 draft.

Makes me sick how inept and lucky that club is
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If you think Nurse is Edmonton's best defender then you should probably get a clue before you talk or at least watch an Edmonton game.
 
What is your ranking of best predraft wingers since Ovechkin got drafted back in 2004?

My:
1. Kane
2. Laine
3. Puljujarvi
4. Hall
5. Yakupov

First of all, I think that Laine recently is before Puljujarvi considering their draft stocks. He's playing better in Liiga, he played in NT - I've got totally nothing against JP, but recently there's tendency to classify Patrik ahead of Jesse and I agree with that point.

I remember many thought Hall should be drafted behind Seguin, so I don't think Puljujarvi is worse as a prospect. Yakupov was great prospect, but did he show in his last year in CHL anything more interesting than dominating U20 WHC? I don't think so, I rather remember his last season in Sarnia as a little bit disappointing.

Kane is one and only (maybe I rate him that high because of American hype machine, I don't know, my thoughts are he was such a great prospect, and his level of domination in CHL was amazing) winger ahead of Laine and Puljujarvi.

So we should assume Laine and Puljujarvi are very unlucky because of a fact, there are in a same draft with Matthews?

About comparison Laine to Matthews, I have to say 7 months between them are truely making a difference here. Matthews is my 1st pick this year in a draft, after all, but Auston was very close to make a list of 2015 NHL draft, and I don't think he would show anything more in his 17s on U20 WHC than Laine and Puljujarvi did. Still, the safest pick is Matthews and he will be drafted first.
 
PeterCheater said:
What is your ranking of best predraft wingers since Ovechkin got drafted back in 2004?

My:
1. Kane
2. Laine
3. Puljujarvi
4. Hall
5. Yakupov

First of all, I think that Laine recently is before Puljujarvi considering their draft stocks. He's playing better in Liiga, he played in NT - I've got totally nothing against JP, but recently there's tendency to classify Patrik ahead of Jesse and I agree with that point.

I remember many thought Hall should be drafted behind Seguin, so I don't think Puljujarvi is worse as a prospect. Yakupov was great prospect, but did he show in his last year in CHL anything more interesting than dominating U20 WHC? I don't think so, I rather remember his last season in Sarnia as a little bit disappointing.

Kane is one and only (maybe I rate him that high because of American hype machine, I don't know, my thoughts are he was such a great prospect, and his level of domination in CHL was amazing) winger ahead of Laine and Puljujarvi.

So we should assume Laine and Puljujarvi are very unlucky because of a fact, there are in a same draft with Matthews?

About comparison Laine to Matthews, I have to say 7 months between them are truely making a difference here. Matthews is my 1st pick this year in a draft, after all, but Auston was very close to make a list of 2015 NHL draft, and I don't think he would show anything more in his 17s on U20 WHC than Laine and Puljujarvi did. Still, the safest pick is Matthews and he will be drafted first.
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Hall would be a head of them easily imo. Barely anyone thought Seguin should be drafted before Hall predraft just so you know.
 
Finally saw some highlights of him and what a shot this kid has! Whoever lands him will be very, very happy.
 
Pretty meh showings in EHT games against Sweden but sure, he is 17/18 yo. Still some concerns on his footspeed. He looked this time slower than snail in mud. But it is what it is.

Tampere produced also Barky who was once a snail in mud, so Patrick has all the time of the world to find some fire in his skates going forward. But damn he looked slow. Or then I saw things. :D
 
HockeyHistorian said:
My point is, Laine is arguably the best Finnish sniper at this point in time (the only other plausible choice would be Pulkkinen) and that alone might be enough for him to make the team.
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However, the thing is, Laine did not (or did not get to) display these good qualities enough in these two games to make up the still-glaring deficiencies in his play. While I wouldn't personally complain at all if Jalonen chose to put trust in him regardless, and in the end he'd show to be worthy of said trust, I also can't help thinking that it's generally a weak argument to say a player should be picked based on something they say he is, not what he has actually done. Could be he was a victim of circumstance here, suffering from a bad team around him that could not set him up well enough, but coaches don't generally bother with those kind of excuses. Diamonds should look like diamonds, even if placed in the rough.

Laine has a wicked gun, and such players arguably need good set-up men to be able to use it to their fullest ability (something he was, for the most part, lacking here). But even in their absence, one should - if not constantly, but at least once or twice - make those chances himself. But there was not even once or twice in these games. And because of this, it's hard to see him breaking the final squad. At least right now.
 
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FiLe said:
However, the thing is, Laine did not (or did not get to) display these good qualities enough in these two games to make up the still-glaring deficiencies in his play. While I wouldn't personally complain at all if Jalonen chose to put trust in him regardless, and in the end he'd show to be worthy of said trust, I also can't help thinking that it's generally a weak argument to say a player should be picked based on something they say he is, not what he has actually done. Could be he was a victim of circumstance here, suffering from a bad team around him that could not set him up well enough, but coaches don't generally bother with those kind of excuses. Diamonds should look like diamonds, even if placed in the rough.

Laine has a wicked gun, and such players arguably need good set-up men to be able to use it to their fullest ability (something he was, for the most part, lacking here). But even in their absence, one should - if not constantly, but at least once or twice - make those chances himself. But there was not even once or twice in these games. And because of this, it's hard to see him breaking the final squad. At least right now.
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I agree with your points, but I view hockey (and all spectator sports) as entertainment and that, in the end, is the reason why I'd like to see Laine in the WHC. What I really would love to see, would be a line of Laine - Aho - Puljujärvi, even though it would hardly be a sensible thing to do. I enjoy watching them play much more than I enjoy grinders like Louhivaara for example.
 
HockeyHistorian said:
I agree with your points, but I view hockey (and all spectator sports) as entertainment and that, in the end, is the reason why I'd like to see Laine in the WHC. What I really would love to see, would be a line of Laine - Aho - Puljujärvi, even though it would hardly be a sensible thing to do. I enjoy watching them play much more than I enjoy grinders like Louhivaara for example.
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While it's not up to me to tell other people what they should find entertaining, and I certainly can respect anybody who can enjoy good a show even if the result is not presentable, I still feel compelled to question the logic behind that statement.

You see, I sense that the reason you find PuLa-Aho so entertaining was because they totally schooled everybody at the WJC. In other words, the key value behind the entertainment was still success. Therefore, would you still consider them entertaining if they were given a shot at the senior level and promptly got their hind sides handed to them?

If the answer is "yes", then a case should be made that KJ ought also to pick Ville Leino, Jesse Niinimäki and Juhamatti Aaltonen and put them in a line together, don't you agree?
 
FiLe said:
While it's not up to me to tell other people what they should find entertaining, and I certainly can respect anybody who can enjoy good a show even if the result is not presentable, I still feel compelled to question the logic behind that statement.

You see, I sense that the reason you find PuLa-Aho so entertaining was because they totally schooled everybody at the WJC. In other words, the key value behind the entertainment was still success. Therefore, would you still consider them entertaining if they were given a shot at the senior level and promptly got their hind sides handed to them?

If the answer is "yes", then a case should be made that KJ ought also to pick Ville Leino, Jesse Niinimäki and Juhamatti Aaltonen and put them in a line together, don't you agree?
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Hey, I would actually be OK with Leino and Aaltonen. :laugh: I also think that the kids line could play decent hockey at the WHC level. They would be a defensive liability, but they could maybe make up for it in the offensive zone.
 
FiLe said:
While it's not up to me to tell other people what they should find entertaining, and I certainly can respect anybody who can enjoy good a show even if the result is not presentable, I still feel compelled to question the logic behind that statement.

You see, I sense that the reason you find PuLa-Aho so entertaining was because they totally schooled everybody at the WJC. In other words, the key value behind the entertainment was still success. Therefore, would you still consider them entertaining if they were given a shot at the senior level and promptly got their hind sides handed to them?

If the answer is "yes", then a case should be made that KJ ought also to pick Ville Leino, Jesse Niinimäki and Juhamatti Aaltonen and put them in a line together, don't you agree?
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Now you nailed it, mr. FiLe!
What else is this annual Skoda Cup for but for circus and show no matter the "results". Entertainment value should come first and foremost.


So, the top 6 in St. Petersburg (?) should be fixed arleady:


Niinimäki - Leino - Aaltonen
Laine - Aho - Pulju

Thank you. After this enjoy the ride. I would. And there would be an abundance of others outside hockey purists who would too. :popcorn::D
 
HockeyHistorian said:
Hey, I would actually be OK with Leino and Aaltonen. :laugh:
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For what it's worth, Aaltonen is probably going to feature.

And let it be said that I don't actually find the idea of Laine at the WHC ludicrous at all. My reasoning's just a little different. Give him a playmaker better than Mika Niemi and back him up with a d-man or two who actually know how to give that first pass, and he might prove to be genuinely entertaining on this level as well.

As for having the entire line out there, at the same time, I have to disagree with your assessment. Since same issue that makes them a defensive liability would also hamper their offensive game. Namely, physical prowess.

To utilize your offensive skill, you need space. And in modern hockey, space is not given, it must be taken. In both ends of the ice. And to date, I've only seen one player who could constantly win physical battles against grown men and make the space required at the meager age of 17. His last name begins with letter B.

Laine couldn't. Otherwise, while not being bad even as he was, he would have been more of a force over this weekend even if the team around him was generally lousy.
(And, for the record, this should not be interpreted as "Laine's weakness is his physical play". I fully expect him to be far more apt at it after just a single summer of right kind of training.)

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Loffer: I would make Niinimäki center that line.
 
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FiLe said:
For what it's worth, Aaltonen is probably going to feature.

And let it be said that I don't actually find the idea of Laine at the WHC ludicrous at all. My reasoning's just a little different. Give him a playmaker better than Mika Niemi and back him up with a d-man or two who actually know how to give that first pass, and he might prove to be genuinely entertaining on this level as well.

As for having the entire line out there, at the same time, I have to disagree with your assessment. Since same issue that makes them a defensive liability would also hamper their offensive game. Namely, physical prowess.

To utilize your offensive skill, you need space. And in modern hockey, space is not given, it must be taken. In both ends of the ice. And to date, I've only seen one player who could constantly win physical battles against grown men and make the space required at the meager age of 17. His last name begins with letter B.

Laine couldn't. Otherwise, while not being bad even as he was, he would have been more of a force over this weekend even if the team around him was generally lousy.
(And, for the record, this should not be interpreted as "Laine's weakness is his physical play". I fully expect him to be far more apt at it after just a single summer of right kind of training.)

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Loffer: I would make Niinimäki center that line.
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I mostly agree, but no amount of sensible arguments can persuade me out of wanting to see the kids' line in the WHC. As long as I can find it even remotely plausible that they could make some noise at the WHC, I'd pick them.

But I digress, Laine is the main topic of this thread. I agree completely with what you said about Laine. I find it very unlikely that Puljujärvi could make the team, but I could totally see Laine and Aho on the team. Just give Laine a good playmaker and a guy who can dig up the puck in the corners and tap in some rebounds and watch the magic happen. :sarcasm:
 
rt said:
They already have 5/6 of those players and they are the worst team in the NHL.
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Not because of their top six, that's for sure. Their depth is lacking, their defense is a mess and they haven't had a goalie since Roloson
 
FiLe said:
Loffer: I would make Niinimäki center that line.
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It might be so. just slotted the names on the line. Jesse is the centre of them sure. But it doesn't mean much in this line. lol

BTW what has happened to Niinimäki and also Leino?? Just checked the stats. Wow. - A good reminder again.


So, this OT related to the subject matter Laine. Can he avoid the fate of the former guys? Hope so. Laine should dangle less and shoot --- eh -- as much as always. :D
 
I hate these excuses of why he didnt produce in these games, its not because he was playing with bad players, he just was not that good himself. Matthews is making players around him better, Laine should do this also if he wants to be 1st oa.
 
Stavros said:
I hate these excuses of why he didnt produce in these games, its not because he was playing with bad players, he just was not that good himself. Matthews is making players around him better, Laine should do this also if he wants to be 1st oa.
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:facepalm: Who's excusing? Most people here have said that Laine wasn't spectacular, and that's that. Yes, some think he could have done better if in a more favorable environment, but that was certainly not an excuse, but rather an admission that he isn't the kind of player who can make things constantly happen all by himself. At least yet.

And the discussion was not about 1OA anyway, but whether he'd be useful in the Finnish WHC squad this spring. And again, the consensus seems to be that if he was to be, he'd need a very specific niche. Which is another point of admission towards his deficiencies.

Thank you for your flawless comprehension. :sarcasm:
 
Stavros said:
I hate these excuses of why he didnt produce in these games, its not because he was playing with bad players, he just was not that good himself. Matthews is making players around him better, Laine should do this also if he wants to be 1st oa.
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Like he did in the last 2 games in Helsinki?:sarcasm:


Didn't see last game fully but in the 1st one their line was the best line offensively.
 
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