RW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) III

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No its not, Ovechkin has also had elite burst and high end speed, which are skills Laine doesn't, that is a big difference. McDavid and Crosby's games are fairly different, especially how they implement their skills, Crosby plays a much more grinding, cycle oriented game, that uses elite lower body strength to get towards the net and win puck battles, McDavid's game is built around elite skating, puck control, and using those traits to create open passing Laine's. There major commonality is elite vision, but they implement this skill in different ways. McDavid is much closer to some Bure/Kane hybred that plays center than Crosby.

I think you missed my point about Ovechkin, although I agree with your assessment about his skating. Also keep in mind that Laine has an advantage in some other areas of the game.

On the Crosby vs. McDavid thing, I also think you missed my point, I wasn't really going for an exact comparison in terms of their styles, more about them as the chosen ones in Canadian hockey in the last decade or two.

 

[canwincup]

Just stat watching but Barkov's numbers were way better in his draft year, I thought Laine was supposed to be the better offensive player? Can anyone that has watched both of them play explain why Laine is projected to be the better offensive player.

 

[Ippenator]

Just stat watching but Barkov's numbers were way better in his draft year, I thought Laine was supposed to be the better offensive player? Can anyone that has watched both of them play explain why Laine is projected to be the better offensive player.

I think there are several reasons for this. Biggest reason might be Laine's shot which outclasses Barkov's shot by all means. Otherwise I think the opinion has been affected by the flashier stickhandling Laine has shown in general. And of course one big reason could be also that Laine has very clearly outscored Barkov at all ages in international tournaments. Also Laine was getting less ice time in a FEL-team with more balanced 4 lines than the team where Barkov played.

My only worries about Laine are his first few strides and his somehow lackluster stamina. So far he seems to have more problems now that the season is getting to it's finish. This he definitely will need to fix, or he might have even an alarming bust potential.

 

[canwincup]

I think there are several reasons for this. Biggest reason might be Laine's shot which outclasses Barkov's shot by all means. Otherwise I think the opinion has been affected by the flashier stickhandling Laine has shown in general. And of course one big reason could be also that Laine has very clearly outscored Barkov at all ages in international tournaments. Also Laine was getting less ice time in a FEL-team with more balanced 4 lines than the team where Barkov played.

My only worries about Laine are his first few strides and his somehow lackluster stamina. So far he seems to have more problems now that the season is getting to it's finish. This he definitely will need to fix, or he might have even an alarming bust potential.

Thanks, I would love for the Canucks to draft this kid, from what I saw at the World juniors his shot is already elite and I don't think he's slow....as some were saying before the tournament. I agree with you that he has to work on his acceleration and I think that will improve as he gets older and stronger.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think you missed my point about Ovechkin, although I agree with your assessment about his skating. Also keep in mind that Laine has an advantage in some other areas of the game.

On the Crosby vs. McDavid thing, I also think you missed my point, I wasn't really going for an exact comparison in terms of their styles, more about them as the chosen ones in Canadian hockey in the last decade or two.

Except that Ovi's skating skill is why he became one of the best, and while many can go from bad to average skaters or average to good, rarely does someone become an elite skater if they weren't already one in junior, which is what holds back Laine from potentially being generational. McDavid is flat out the best prospect to come out of the OHL since Lindros, its debatable if Laine is even the best product to come out of Finland this year (I think he is) or in the last 4. Ovi was also viewed well before his draft year as the best Russian prospect to not come through the red Army system.

Laine is amazing, and I'd be ecstatic if the Leafs got him, but McDavid is more skilled and there is a wide gap between him and Laine. The advantages Laine has over McDavid in no way close the gap in regards to what McDavid elite traits are. As much as I like Laine's game, I'd be skeptical to put him in the tier of prospects below McDavid, which would be Eichel, Matthews, Tavares and Stamkos tier. Laine probably only challenges for the top spot in 2012, 2011, 2010, 2007, 2006, in the post Crosby drafts. Out of the recent #1 picks, I'd say its much more likely Laine has a Rick Nash or if he hits his ceiling Kovalchuck like career than the one of Ovi.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think there are several reasons for this. Biggest reason might be Laine's shot which outclasses Barkov's shot by all means. Otherwise I think the opinion has been affected by the flashier stickhandling Laine has shown in general. And of course one big reason could be also that Laine has very clearly outscored Barkov at all ages in international tournaments. Also Laine was getting less ice time in a FEL-team with more balanced 4 lines than the team where Barkov played.

My only worries about Laine are his first few strides and his somehow lackluster stamina. So far he seems to have more problems now that the season is getting to it's finish. This he definitely will need to fix, or he might have even an alarming bust potential.

Along with the factors you mentioned, I'd say the success of Barkov and Ristolainen has helped the image of Finnish prospects making GM's less skeptical of Laine and Puljujarvi. Finland had a long run of not producing elite players outside of goalies. So it may be a case of Barkov being underrated, and Laine now being more accurately rated.

 

[traffic cone]

Who has that combination of size, power, hands, shot, passing and defense? If you were to rate players out of ten in the main categories of evaluation before adding up the total and we don't add skating, does Laine have the #1 spot? He might. If not first, I think he would be among the best.

Exactly. Take away the single most important ability in the game and then rate the players.

 

[Marre]

When comparing Laine and Barkov you have to remember that Barkov was extremely mature 17 year old on and off the ice. Laine not so much though he has made strides lately. Much more a kid still which for the 17 year old really isn't that much a fault but something to be expected. Barkov was much more developed player his draft year than Laine.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Except that Ovi's skating skill is why he became one of the best, and while many can go from bad to average skaters or average to good, rarely does someone become an elite skater if they weren't already one in junior, which is what holds back Laine from potentially being generational. McDavid is flat out the best prospect to come out of the OHL since Lindros, its debatable if Laine is even the best product to come out of Finland this year (I think he is) or in the last 4. Ovi was also viewed well before his draft year as the best Russian prospect to not come through the red Army system.

Laine is amazing, and I'd be ecstatic if the Leafs got him, but McDavid is more skilled and there is a wide gap between him and Laine. The advantages Laine has over McDavid in no way close the gap in regards to what McDavid elite traits are. As much as I like Laine's game, I'd be skeptical to put him in the tier of prospects below McDavid, which would be Eichel, Matthews, Tavares and Stamkos tier. Laine probably only challenges for the top spot in 2012, 2011, 2010, 2007, 2006, in the post Crosby drafts. Out of the recent #1 picks, I'd say its much more likely Laine has a Rick Nash or if he hits his ceiling Kovalchuck like career than the one of Ovi.

Once again, you don't understand what I am saying, so let me just repeat it. The comment about Ovechkin was a joke about the "only things" that you claimed Laine has over McDavid. It's not even important for a Laine vs. McDavid discussion because the joke was in reference to how important those "only things" are to Ovechkin's game. I fully agree with you that skating should be added into the equation for Ovechkin's game. We can just drop this part of the discussion since it really has nothing to do with debating Laine.

Also, if you don't believe that Laine is the best Finnish prospect this year, thats your own problem. I don't think its much of a debate. As for Laine vs. Barkov, I don't know why a close comparison between the two is such a bad thing for Laine. Barkov is the best player out of the 2013 draft, better than MacKinnon. A lot of people think Barkov is the next great 2-way center in the mold of players like Toews, Kopitar, and you very well know there are people who believe Toews is in the same conversation as Crosby, so to act like being in a comparison with Barkov is a bad thing is just crazy. There's a chance Barkov becomes a top five player of his era.

The initial comment about his skills without the skating was just to prove where he could get if he did improve his skating a lot more. If Laine had Ovechkin type skating, do people really not think he'd be viewed as the same caliber prospect as the likes of Ovechkin, Crosby, McDavid? Thats a hypothetical, but there are reasons to believe that Laine can get there with his skating. He's dealt with injuries recently that have effected his skating and his ability to improve his skating. During the summer of 2015, he improved his skating a full notch, which is probably why he's going to be a top 2 pick instead of top 20-30. Can he make one more big improvement? Its tough to know, but if I was to make a prediction, I think he will. Its very easy to sit on the fence around here, I'm not going to do that. It might sound crazy to compare him to these huge names, but I think he will be one of those huge names soon enough. I'm also a big fan of McDavid, I've said that he's the best player in the NHL already, so I'm not just some McDavid hater.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Exactly. Take away the single most important ability in the game and then rate the players.

Sorry, hypotheticals definitely don't belong on a message board.

 

[Loffer]

Don't overestimate motorized uptempo outlook and don't underestimate the vision side of things in your assessments of prospects either. Well, just a reminder once again.

As if you had to be a headless horse runnin wild in da rink a la ...

 

[The Thin White Duke]

One thing I noticed is his ability to receive just about any quality of pass and get a shot off quickly. I think that's going to be what separates him from other goal-scoring prospects, especially in the current NHL climate. Offensive defensemen are going to love having him as an option for a stretch pass. The skating might not even be a problem if he develops a tanky power game (think Joe Thornton) to create space for himself.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Sorry, hypotheticals definitely don't belong on a message board.

You can't take out skating though. Or I'd potentially be an NHL player smh

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You can't take out skating though. Or I'd potentially be an NHL player smh

Did I? I believe I've used that all along to make the point about where he could be if his skating improves.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Who has had that type of goal scoring potential since Ovechkin?

Stamkos

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Stamkos

He's certainly the option if you are to disagree with me, but I think Laine has more scoring potential.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

He's certainly the option if you are to disagree with me, but I think Laine has more scoring potential.

Laine is great, but Stamkos easily had that kind of goal scoring potential as a prospect and he even matched or out ''scored'' Ovechkin in the NHL over those 3 or 4 years, didn't he?

Anyways, I see Laine getting some 50 goal seasons as well, this kid truly is the closest thing to young Mario.

 

[OkimLom]

Laine is great, but Stamkos easily had that kind of goal scoring potential as a prospect and he even matched or out ''scored'' Ovechkin in the NHL over those 3 or 4 years, didn't he?

Anyways, I see Laine getting some 50 goal seasons as well, this kid truly is the closest thing to young Mario.

That's a serious comparison. Care to clarify if you mean in talent level, or just the way he plays the game?

For me, Laine is probably the most hyped, and rightfully so, goal scorer since Ovie. However, I do have question marks on whether his skating will hold him back. He has solid straight line speed, but I question his mobility and his ability to stop and go and get to full speed quickly in a small distance.

There's also his positioning playing the defensive game that I would like to see some improvement on, which also hangs on his ability to skate. He's a winger, so it's not as crucial if he was a center, but I want to see him able to handle himself.

I do think his floor is a prime-Thomas Vanek-like talent, and his ceiling is a little under Ovie.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

That's a serious comparison. Care to clarify if you mean in talent level, or just the way he plays the game?

Just His size and puck skills, and the right hand shot is what is reminding people of Lemieux. The way Laine can cradle the puck, dangle, play keep away from opposition and make things happen offensively is eerily similar to Lemieux.

Who cares if he's not Bure or Fedorov out there speed wise?

 

[strat1]

Things he needs to get better at:
-Physicality
Not saying that he's weak but he needs to exploit his big body more on board games.
-acceleration
This is his biggest weakness so far. He really needs to workout his explosiviness
-Stamina
He gets really exhausted when his team is playing two games in a row.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Also, if you don't believe that Laine is the best Finnish prospect this year, thats your own problem. I don't think its much of a debate.

Ok that's just ignorant.. it is way too early to write Puljujärvi off and his post-wjc performance has been great. Laine is ahead at the moment but it's worth disputing who will end up better

 

[JA]

There is hope in the skating department if he works with Bo Horvat's skating instructor.

At the time of the 2013 NHL Draft, Bo was known as a relatively slow player. In the past year, his skating has improved to the point now where he explodes past opposition defenders and does things off the rush that were unimaginable before. He takes off with remarkable acceleration now. He drives hard to the net with the puck and gets around the ice extremely well.



When the Oilers played the Canucks on Friday, there was one play in which Connor McDavid tried to speed past Bo Horvat from the Oilers' zone to the other end of the rink; Horvat kept up with McDavid and prevented any separation between himself and Connor. Granted, Bo lost his footing at the end boards once he forced McDavid behind the Canucks' goal line, but it was an extremely impressive display for a player whose weakness was supposed to be his foot speed. I think it was last game, meanwhile, that he put the puck between an opposition defender's legs and then moved around him for a scoring opportunity.

Skating can improve if the player has the right instruction. If the Canucks draft Laine, I think there will be an opportunity for him to improve his skating ability.

Fitness, meanwhile, is something that can be learned from the Sedin twins. Those two are in fantastic shape and have always had terrific stamina. Chris Higgins is another veteran with a strong work ethic. Strong mentorship can lead to great things.

 

[ginner classic]

Laine = Brett Hull

 

[Hokinaittii]

Like others have said, if and when Laine is able to work on the acceleration and explosiveness in his skating, he's going to be an elite player. That's the only reason why we aren't seeing him scoring more in Liiga with those offensive instincs of his.

Laine has also seem to be a bit exhausted lately, might be just me but I definately remember him being more aggressive at the start of the season and in WJC. Sure, he is 17 and is still learning to adjust his playstyle. But while he might have lost some of that aggressiveness from the early season, he has improved in many other areas that will become handy in the NHL.

 

[strat1]

Like others have said, if and when Laine is able to work on the acceleration and explosiveness in his skating, he's going to be an elite player. That's the only reason why we aren't seeing him scoring more in Liiga with those offensive instincs of his.

Laine has also seem to be a bit exhausted lately, might be just me but I definately remember him being more aggressive at the start of the season and in WJC. Sure, he is 17 and is still learning to adjust his playstyle. But while he might have lost some of that aggressiveness from the early season, he has improved in many other areas that will become handy in the NHL.

Playoffs games are really fast-paced and physically tough for any player and especially for a 17 year old rookie. I don't wonder why he doesn't get points. He just need to get used to it.