RW Matvei Michkov - SKA-1946 St.Petersburg, MHL (2023 Draft) Part 2

[Fatass]

I can see this kid as the First pick in 2023. Really it will be shocking if he’s not. He’s a franchise defining player.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Cmon, quit making excuses for why, up to this point, Bedard hasn't been on Michkov's level this tournament.

Had Michkov been born a only month later, he'd be the same as Bedard - 2005 born. Unfortunately for Michkov, Nov/Dec are the worst months to be born in for international hockey.

That said, who knows who will turn out better in the future. This tourney is only a small snapshot in time.

Its not an excuse, its a very real fact that Bedard is playing this tournament a whole development year behind Michkov. Michkov has been better, but he also SHOULD be better too. It's not that hard to understand.

Trying to claim one is clearly the better prospect off of this tournament is pretty crazy

 

[Kranix]

It will be interesting to see how Bedard’s numbers stack up next year if he comes back as a 16 year old. What kind of numbers did Michkov put up as a 15 year old? I can’t find them them on EliteProspects.

Does Russia need to win gold for this tourney to be considered a success for Michkov? Should truly generational 16 year olds be able to put their team in their backs and lead them to a championship?

No. I don't think Mario or Wayne ever won a world juniors

 

[Zine]

Its not an excuse, its a very real fact that Bedard is playing this tournament a whole development year behind Michkov. Michkov has been better, but he also SHOULD be better too. It's not that hard to understand.

Trying to claim one is clearly the better prospect off of this tournament is pretty crazy

There's no way to know that. That's only something you can judge if both players were brought up in the same system. As someone pointed out in another thread, had Bedard and Michkov been brought up in the American system they'd be in the same development year.

Keep in mind, both Bedard and Michkov have been playing with and against older competition their entire lives. These kids aren't following the traditional yearly development path.
All we know is Michkov is 7 months older. And frankly, if he was born a month later (a 2005), nobody would be saying anything about age.

 

[nbwingsfan]

There's no way to know that. That's only something you can judge if both players were brought up in the same system. As someone pointed out in another thread, had Bedard and Michkov been brought up in the American system they'd be in the same development year.

Keep in mind, both Bedard and Michkov have been playing with and against older competition their entire lives. These kids aren't following the traditional yearly development path.
All we know is Michkov is 7 months older.

No way of knowing that? Bedard is playing at 15... Michkov is playing at 16, and didnt make it at 15. These are literal facts. Amazing what some people will try and argue.

 

[NatusVincere]

No way of knowing that? Bedard is playing at 15... Michkov is playing at 16, and didnt make it at 15. These are literal facts. Amazing what some people will try and argue.

Didnt make it at 15?! Take a look if the tournament took place last year...

 

[Zine]

No way of knowing that? Bedard is playing at 15... Michkov is playing at 16, and didnt make it at 15. These are literal facts. Amazing what some people will try and argue.

What are you talking about? There was no U18 last year.

And everything is far more nuanced than you make it out to be. Bedard is an old 15, Michkov a young 16. - hence why they’re in the same draft class.

To claim Bedard is a full development year behind Michkov is completely unsubstantiated. Players need to come from the same system to determine as such.

 

[nbwingsfan]

What are you talking about? There was no U18 last year.

And everything is far more nuanced than you make it out to be. Bedard is an old 15, Michkov a young 16. - hence why they’re in the same draft class.

To claim Bedard is a full development year behind Michkov is completely unsubstantiated. Players need to come from the same system to determine as such.

*Play at 15. Theres 8 months between the two of them. This isnt a small amount. Michkov SHOULD be better at this tournament, just like any older player should be. Just look at the difference between 17yo Lafreniere and 18yo Lafreniere at the U20

 

[Zine]

*Play at 15. Theres 8 months between the two of them. This isnt a small amount. Michkov SHOULD be better at this tournament, just like any older player should be. Just look at the difference between 17yo Lafreniere and 18yo Lafreniere at the U20

No, there's 7 months between them. It's not a negligible amount, but it's also not significant - especially for 'generational' level talents, which Lafrenier is not, but ,say, McDavid is.


And quit telling lies. You said Michkov didn't make it at 15. Of course he didn't, there was no U-18 last year.

Again, nobody would be bringing age up if Michkov was born a month later.

 

[tmlfan98]

You say this stuff as if it's an absolute fact and the case is closed.

I didn't state anything as a fact, Michkov could still go #1 or #2 because it is not known how he will decide in regards to buying out his contract.

If you're disagreeing with my take that Michkov is better, it's pretty easy to see that he is right now and I'm not gonna bet on a 16 year old kid already chasing an Ovi record to give up that distinction.

 

[prongertheman9]

No, there's 7 months between them. It's not a negligible amount, but it's also not significant - especially for 'generational' level talents, which Lafrenier is not, but ,say, McDavid is.


And quit telling lies. You said Michkov didn't make it at 15. Of course he didn't, there was no U-18 last year.

Again, nobody would be bringing age up if Michkov was born a month later.

The same argument could be be that if Bedard was born 2 months later he wouldn’t be draft eligible until 2024.

Was Michkov on the radar for the world junior team this year? How often have 16 year olds made team Russia for WCJ?

 

[nbwingsfan]

No, there's 7 months between them. It's not a negligible amount, but it's also not significant - especially for 'generational' level talents, which Lafrenier is not, but ,say, McDavid is.


And quit telling lies. You said Michkov didn't make it at 15. Of course he didn't, there was no U-18 last year.

Again, nobody would be bringing age up if Michkov was born a month later.

Not significant? Doesnt apply to generational talents? McDavid had 4pts at the u20at 16 but then had 11 at 17yo. This is incredibly common for younger guys to do much better the older they get, especially for Canadians.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Really fun thread, guys. I come into the Michkov thread trying to read about Michkov but it’s just Bedard guys dragging down Michkov. Then I go into the Bedard thread to read about Bedard but it’s just Michkov guys dragging down Bedard.

Boy, this’ll be a fun two years.

 

[Zine]

The same argument could be be that if Bedard was born 2 months later he wouldn’t be draft eligible until 2024.

Was Michkov on the radar for the world junior team this year? How often have 16 year olds made team Russia for WCJ?

No, Michkov wasn't on the radar. Russian hockey is very hierarchical. I can't think of a time a 16yo made the WJC. Not Ovechkin, Malkin, Bure, Fedorov, etc.

 

[Zine]

Not significant? Doesnt apply to generational talents? McDavid had 4pts at the u20at 16 but then had 11 at 17yo. This is incredibly common for younger guys to do much better the older they get, especially for Canadians.

The discrepancy isn't a full year of development though.

Now go away. This thread is about Michkov. Not Bedard.

 

[prongertheman9]

Really fun thread, guys. I come into the Michkov thread trying to read about Michkov but it’s just Bedard guys dragging down Michkov. Then I go into the Bedard thread to read about Bedard but it’s just Michkov guys dragging down Bedard.

Boy, this’ll be a fun two years.

I don’t think any Bedard guys are necessarily dragging down Michkov but rather trying to offer some perspective to the Michkov fan club who can’t cheer him on without slandering Bedard.

 

[HisNoodliness]

For those that watch Michkov frequently, give me your breakdown of his game. With a 5/5 being NHL ready how do you rate his skating, shooting, passing, IQ, hands and physicality. Break them into sub-categories if you think that's more descriptive, ie: (let's say you think he has good edge work, acceleration and lateral mobility but has a slow top speed) then maybe for skating you would do:
skating agility 5/5
but straight line speed 2/5.
Very agile, turns rapidly and can accelerate well but lacks top end speed right now.

Who do you (stylistically) compare him to? If you had to give a floor/ceiling?

 

[prongertheman9]

No, Michkov wasn't on the radar. Russian hockey is very hierarchical. I can't think of a time a 16yo made the WJC. Not Ovechkin, Malkin, Bure, Fedorov, etc.

Yeah that is kinda what I thought. 17 year olds are fairly rare too eh? Michkov should be a lock next year though you would think?

 

[PeterCheater]

*Play at 15. Theres 8 months between the two of them. This isnt a small amount. Michkov SHOULD be better at this tournament, just like any older player should be. Just look at the difference between 17yo Lafreniere and 18yo Lafreniere at the U20

Not true. Sometimes 8-months age gap may be relevant, in most cases it's probably not. Patrick Laine was 7 months younger than Auston Matthews, Puljujarvi even 8 months, yet they outscored him at WJC - YET it was no indication about their actual skills, nor Laine and Puljujarvi were really behind Matthews in their development due to being younger. At that time, there were people who claimed that Laine outscored AM despite being much younger twice (WCH and WJC) in their draft year, assuming that he may have bigger upside due to that, but it turned out to be contrary. Phil Kessel outscored Malkin twice in junior competitions (U-18, U-20) as a double underager, but that's a reason why we shouldn't care that much about MM and CBs production in junior competitions.

You could argue that this 8 months difference is really relevant here if Michkov is really physically ahead of Bedard in his development, but I don't think that's a case here. In most cases, people use this ''age disparity'' as some obvious assumption that the older player is ahead in his curve of development, but in reality, like I said, sometimes it may be relevant, but only under specific conditions (if player X is ahead physically or player Y is underdeveloped in that department). I'd rather point out a disparity in number of games that they both played.

 

[VictorLustig]

Not true. Sometimes 8-months age gap may be relevant, in most cases it's probably not. Patrick Laine was 7 months younger than Auston Matthews, Puljujarvi even 8 months, yet they outscored him at WJC - YET it was no indication about their actual skills, nor Laine and Puljujarvi were really behind Matthews in their development due to being younger. At that time, there were people who claimed that Laine outscored AM despite being much younger twice (WCH and WJC) in their draft year, assuming that he may have bigger upside due to that, but it turned out to be contrary. Phil Kessel outscored Malkin twice in junior competitions (U-18, U-20) as a double underager, but that's a reason why we shouldn't care that much about MM and CBs production in junior competitions.

You could argue that this 8 months difference is really relevant here if Michkov is really physically ahead of Bedard in his development, but I don't think that's a case here. In most cases, people use this ''age disparity'' as some obvious assumption that the older player is ahead in his curve of development, but in reality, like I said, sometimes it may be relevant, but only under specific conditions (if player X is ahead physically or player Y is underdeveloped in that department). I'd rather point out a disparity in number of games that they both played.

Michkov is definitely ahead physically. By a lot.

 

[NatusVincere]

Michkov on the 3rd line today.

 

[prongertheman9]

Michkov on the 3rd line today.

What would possibly be the rationale? Balance the lines more or punishment?

 

[Juxtaposer]

I don’t think any Bedard guys are necessarily dragging down Michkov but rather trying to offer some perspective to the Michkov fan club who can’t cheer him on without slandering Bedard.

Counterpoint: did they ask for perspective? Does it affect you in any way that they’re hyping up Michkov?

I’ve seen the Bedard-slander from Michkov fans too, believe me. What I’m saying is you can’t just say “they started it!” as an excuse. Be the bigger person and keep it in the Bedard thread.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Another game, another goal. And beautiful one.

 

[PeterCheater]

Another game, another goal. And beautiful one.

Another goal generated by his great skating.



10+2 in 5 games, 4 goals away from Ovi record (14 goals in 8 games, 14+4).