RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft) Part 5

[ijuka]

That only proves my statement further...

This tournament has little to no meaning for the draft and never has

It's very rare for a draft-eligible player to even be ready to play at WCs. Even rarer for them to dominate.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

It's very rare for a draft-eligible player to even be ready to play at WCs. Even rarer for them to dominate.

And Im sure Jeff Gorton and the Rangers are very excited and are having a ton of fun watching him play

 

[Kaako Kappo]

That only proves my statement further...

This tournament has little to no meaning for the draft and never has

No, it makes your statement null and void. If this tournament does not affect the draft status of players then why should any of the Junior tournaments, which are lower quality hockey? At least say you don't believe they do, so your statement has some consistency.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

No, it makes your statement null and void. If this tournament does not affect the draft status of players then why should any of the Junior tournaments, which are lower quality hockey?

Nico Hischier made the jump from his U18 performances as well as junior hockey

I cant name a single 1st overall who was picked because of their WC. Thats the point.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Nico Hischier made the jump from his U18 performances as well as junior hockey

I cant name a single 1st overall who was picked because of their WC. Thats the point.

I just linked you the list. You can't name them because they don't play there, because it's not common. Because it's not easy for an 18 year old. Hell, the #1 projected Jack Hughes is showing you right now why they don't usually play there. They rarely have anything to contribute.

You either believe that none of these should matter or that all of them should matter, you do not pick and choose.

Elite Prospects - WJC-20 Stats All-time season

Go look at this list. Look at these names. It's half gold and half garbage. An overrated competition. Same goes for U18 with Pulkkinen, Rajala etc at the top. Blah.

Juolevi got picked almost solely because of his u20 performance. That went well. Pulju ripped U20's and U18's apart. That went well.


Either you give all of these value or you do not give any of them value. There's no in-between. You're not a scout, you probably do not know any team scouts and thus I can say with 11110% certainty that you have no idea whether these affect anything or not. You do not have any data to support your claim.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I just linked you the list. You can't name them because they don't play there, because it's not common. Because it's not easy for an 18 year old. Hell, the #1 projected Jack Hughes is showing you right now why they don't usually play there. They rarely have anything to contribute.

You either believe that none of these should matter or that all of them should matter, you do not pick and choose.

Elite Prospects - WJC-20 Stats All-time season

Go look at this list. Look at these names. It's half gold and half garbage. An overrated competition. Same goes for U18 with Pulkkinen, Rajala etc at the top. Blah.

Juolevi got picked almost solely because of his u20 performance. That went well. Pulju ripped U20's and U18's apart. That went well.


Either you give all of these value or you do not give any of them value. There's no in-between. You're not a scout, you probably do not know any team scouts and thus I can say with 11110% certainty that you have no idea whether these affect anything or not. You do not have any data to support your claim.

But since you googled a few things you have more of a clue?

Right haha

Oh and great examples like Juilevi, thanks for proving my point that no logical scouts make good decisions based on singular tournaments.

 

[Henkka]

Uh, it is extremely rare for a kid in his draft season to play in WHC. Even rarer that the kid in question is in talks for 1st overall. You simply cannot make this claim, you don't have the data.


Here's some perspective for you:

Elite Prospects - WC Stats All-time season

Nice stats.

It's pretty much Jagr, Laine and Kakko. And Hasek + Tretiak, if you include goaltenders. Pretty big names.

Jagr scored 93+127 = 220 points (0.95 ppg) in first 231 NHL games (on 3 seasons) after the WHC.
Laine scored 110+74= 184 points (0.78 ppg) in first 237 NHL games (on 3 seasons) after the WHC.

You can already estimate Kakko on the same ballpark.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

But since you googled a few things you have more of a clue?

Right haha

Oh and great examples like Juilevi, thanks for proving my point that no logical scouts make good decisions based on singular tournaments.

(mod) At least attempt to argue if you're going to waste people's time answering to their posts.

I did not make a claim. You made a claim. I questioned your claim by pointing out that you've pretty much nothing to base it on. Either support your arguments with something or just stop.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

At least attempt to argue if you're going to waste people's time answering to their posts.

I did not make a claim. You made a claim. I questioned your claim by pointing out that you've pretty much nothing to base it on. Either support your arguments with something or just stop.

You havent pointed out anything. Figure it out

The WC do not matter for draft status. Thats it.

 

[Henkka]

You havent pointed out anything. Figure it out

The WC do not matter for draft status. Thats it.

Uhhh. what a moronic comment.

Of course it matters. If something hasn't mattered in the past, it matters NOW. Because things and hockey world is changing. Young players are developing better sooner than ever. You have to adjust for that, or you are pretty bad dinosaur GM/draft analyst/Scouting Director and others will eat your job in the competition if you don't adjust.

IT WILL MATTER something. But it doesn't matter everything. Just common sense.

 

[ijuka]

You havent pointed out anything. Figure it out

The WC do not matter for draft status. Thats it.

Because dominance like Kakko's at WC pre-draft has literally never happened before, there are no comparables, as such sweeping statements such as this are pointless. It's unprofessional to completely omit some material from the decision making process.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Uhhh. what a moronic comment.

Of course it matters. If something hasn't mattered in the past, it matters NOW. Because things and hockey world is changing. Young players are developing better sooner than ever. You have to adjust for that, or you are pretty bad dinosaur GM/draft analyst/Scouting Director and others will eat your job if you don't adjust.

Name a 1st overall that the WC affected. Or will the amazing 5 goals with two empty nets be the first ever?

 

[Henkka]

Name a 1st overall that the WC affected

I live in the future. You can live in the past.

 

[ijuka]

Name a 1st overall that the WC affected. Or will the amazing 5 goals with two empty nets be the first ever?

It's not the 5 goals, it's his play. He could have scored 0 points and that wouldn't change anything.

So, what, are you going to bring up Laine and Matthews? It's as if people who do that conveniently forget that: 1. Laine didn't score vs good teams at all and 2. that Matthews himself had a fantastic tournament.

The amount of #1 vs #2 comparisons at WCs in the past is so small that you cannot use sweeping statements, everything needs to be treated as its individual case.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I live in the future. You can live in the past.

Fantasy land more like it

 

[Henkka]

Fantasy land more like it

Hall - Hischier - Kakko will be a great line, don't you worry.

 

[Polar Bear]

Nico Hischier made the jump from his U18 performances as well as junior hockey

I cant name a single 1st overall who was picked because of their WC. Thats the point.

Here is the thing I think you're not factoring, Kakko has been this dominant ALL YEAR. It's just being further highlighted by an equally strong tournament. If Kakko was to go 1, it would more so be his record breaking season in Liiga that drove the selection home.

 

[Meuracas]

A fellow Finn here - Kakko is the major reason I am watching Finland’s WC games this year, like many have stated earlier the the roster is otherwise quite underwhelming. Kakko’s play looks amazingly mature and it’ll be exciting to see him in the NHL next season.

However, I couldn’t care less if he’s drafted first, second or in the second round. The childish debate of trying to disprove Kakko’s performance and the even more childish over-euphoric hype by Finnish fanboys is just ridiculous. I can almost see you foaming at the mouth while bashing your keyboards after every deke he pulls off.

Didn’t we learn anything from case Laine? Sure, Kakko’s skillset is completely different and probably more likely to translate into success at NHL level, but can’t we just enjoy Kakko (and Hughes) without getting lost in the meaningless game of trying to prove our guy’s better? We’ll find out soon enough.

’s all, back to lurking.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Here is the thing I think you're not factoring, Kakko has been this dominant ALL YEAR. It's just being further highlighted by an equally strong tournament. If Kakko was to go 1, it would more so be his record breaking season in Liiga that drove the selection home.

Well of course Im never trying to take away from his Liiga play. It was excellent. My point is, even if scouts were 51/49 for Jack pre-WC - the WC isn't making that difference for the GM of the 1st pick. It would literally need to be 50-50 (which it was not) and it has never happened before that this tournament tilted favor for a 1st overall.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Just about everyone is (except the teams not picking one)

Draft 2019 who do you take as Nr 1?Hughes or Kakko?

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Draft 2019 who do you take as Nr 1?Hughes or Kakko?

What does this have to do with anything I said? Lol

 

[The Crypto Guy]

What does this have to do with anything I said? Lol

Everything.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Everything.

It doesnt change that Hughes and Kakko are the top-2 picks

Then again you had the comment that Jack Hughes' travel slowing him down was 'just an excuse' and then your entire Rangers board disagreed with you and another poster on the subject.

Youll calm down and think logically one day

 

[93LEAFS]

Well of course Im never trying to take away from his Liiga play. It was excellent. My point is, even if scouts were 51/49 for Jack pre-WC - the WC isn't making that difference for the GM of the 1st pick. It would literally need to be 50-50 (which it was not) and it has never happened before that this tournament tilted favor for a 1st overall.

There's literally one case where the consensus top 2 picks both played at this tournament, and both had very impressive tournaments. You can't really use a sample size of one event to extrapolate a point. If the memorial cup can make a significant difference on draft stock (Mackinnon vs Jones and to a lesser extent Drouin), which is a smaller tournament with a smaller sample of games against junior comp, this can too. That doesn't mean automatically Kakko should be one, but it would be moronic for a GM/scouting staff to just ignore this new found information. Philosophically, if your opinion was 51/49 entering the tournament, you absolutely should be questioning it, and if my GM was that stubborn at 51% he couldn't re-evaluate that position with the new views, I wouldn't want them to be my GM or scouting staff.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

There's literally one case where the consensus top 2 picks both played at this tournament, and both had very impressive tournaments. You can't really use a sample size of one event to extrapolate a point. If the memorial cup can make a significant difference on draft stock (Mackinnon vs Jones and to a lesser extent Drouin), which is a smaller tournament with a smaller sample of games against junior comp, this can too. That doesn't mean automatically Kakko should be one, but it would be moronic for a GM/scouting staff to just ignore this new found information. Philosophically, if your opinion was 51/49 entering the tournament, you absolutely should be questioning it, and if my GM was that stubborn at 51% he couldn't re-evaluate that position with the new views, I wouldn't want them to be my GM or scouting staff.

You mean a tournament where theyve played with the team all year within the same age-range as compared to one where you play with guys youve never likely never met before and is drastically different from their entire careers up to then in competition?

No, they arent equals lmfao.