RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft) Part 5

[93LEAFS]

You mean a tournament where theyve played with the team all year within the same age-range as compared to one where you play with guys youve never likely never met before and is drastically different from their entire careers up to then in competition?

No, they arent equals lmfao.

Pretty much every international team ever is made up of guys who haven't played together before outside of the USNTDP. So, are you saying in a round about way the USNTDP putting up great numbers against teams like that cheapens the numbers? You can't have it both ways.

I just think its insanely foolish to extrapolate a one-time event, then apply it universally.

 

[Saekk]

You mean a tournament where theyve played with the team all year within the same age-range as compared to one where you play with guys youve never likely never met before and is drastically different from their entire careers up to then in competition?

No, they arent equals lmfao.

Yeah they aren't, WHC is clearly worth more.

 

[Snowsii]

Well of course Im never trying to take away from his Liiga play. It was excellent. My point is, even if scouts were 51/49 for Jack pre-WC - the WC isn't making that difference for the GM of the 1st pick. It would literally need to be 50-50 (which it was not) and it has never happened before that this tournament tilted favor for a 1st overall.

Just maybe, i mean just maybe because there havent been very much of 1/2 picks playing in World championships.. Latest were Matthews and Laine, and they both played well (Laine had 12p and Matthews had 9p) So that tournament didnt tilt the tables.. This year might be different case. Hughes is going to be a great player eitherway.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Pretty much every international team ever is made up of guys who haven't played together before outside of the USNTDP. So, are you saying in around about way the USNTDP putting up great numbers against teams like that cheapens the numbers? You can't have it both ways.

I just think its insanely foolish to extrapolate a one-time event, then apply it universally.

Huh?

Were getting so off track here.

Kakko was NEVER considered an equal to Jack Hughes prior to the World Championships. Now the cronies on HF have decided after four WC games that Kakko is not only equal but better.

No singular tournament holds that value. Especially not one where its their first time nationally against men (something theyve never done).

Do you want to be jumped over by another candidate for a job you were preferred over them for for, simply because the other applicant came in for an interview and did better at a task you both have never done before?

 

[93LEAFS]

Huh?

Were getting so off track here.

Kakko was NEVER considered an equal to Jack Hughes prior to the World Championships. Now the cronies on HF have decided after four WC games that Kakko is not only equal but better.

No singular tournament holds that value. Especially not one where its their first time nationally against men (something theyve never done).

Do you want to be jumped over by another candidate for a job you were preferred for, simply because the other applicant came in for an interview and did better at a task youve never done before?

It was close before the WHC, I guess we disagree on that point (which means an understanding is unlikely to be found). I'm undecided on who I would take at this point, I just think the argument you presented is built on a ton of false premises or arguments that are built on such a limited sample size that it isn't relevant.

 

[Saekk]

Huh?

Were getting so off track here.

Kakko was NEVER considered an equal to Jack Hughes prior to the World Championships. Now the cronies on HF have decided after four WC games that Kakko is not only equal but better.

No singular tournament holds that value. Especially not one where its their first time nationally against men (something theyve never done).

Do you want to be jumped over by another candidate for a job you were preferred over them for for, simply because the other applicant came in for an interview and did better at a task you both have never done before?

https://www.tsn.ca/hughes-kakko-in-tight-race-for-top-spot-1.1284470

“The difference for us, right now, is razor thin,” said one NHL team head scout. “It’s almost a coin flip, pretty much a dead heat. Really close. Call it Hughes at 51 per cent, Kakko at 49 per cent. It’s that close and that could change.”

Yeah i guess that's not equal enough.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

It was close before the WHC, I guess we disagree on that point (which means an understanding is unlikely to be found). I'm undecided on who I would take at this point, I just think the argument you presented is built on a ton of false premises or arguments that are built on such a limited sample size that it isn't relevant.

No offense to your opinion on their closeness pre-WC as its fine to have - but 98% of scouts had Jack first pre-WC. That means it has to be far enough apart to be consensus, no matter how close it actually may be talent wise.

Yet now on HF Kakko is the better player after four games (or even just a single tournament)?

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

https://www.tsn.ca/hughes-kakko-in-tight-race-for-top-spot-1.1284470

“The difference for us, right now, is razor thin,” said one NHL team head scout. “It’s almost a coin flip, pretty much a dead heat. Really close. Call it Hughes at 51 per cent, Kakko at 49 per cent. It’s that close and that could change.”

Yeah i guess that's not equal enough.

Since you like links, go find me however many scouting lists pre-WC that have Kakko #1.

Lets see how many you can find because I can find a LOT with Jack #1

Scouting lists were not 51-49 so whether or not their skill is 'razor thin' clearly their potentials arent

 

[Saekk]

Since you like links, go find me however many scouting lists pre-WC that have Kakko #1.

Lets see how many you can find because I can find a LOT with Jack #1

Stop moving goalposts, you said he was never equal or not even close to Hughes.

Would be nice if you stopped spreading misinformation.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Stop moving goalposts, you said he was never equal or not even close to Hughes.

Would be nice if you stopped spreading misinformation.

I said that for before WC.

Would be nice if your read it thoroughly and backed up your lies with links. But you cant. Because no one had Kakko #1 pre-WC.

You tried!

 

[93LEAFS]

No offense to your opinion on their closeness pre-WC as its fine to have - but 98% of scouts had Jack first pre-WC. That means it has to be far enough apart to be consensus, no matter how close it actually may be talent wise.

Yet now on HF Kakko is the better player after four games (or even just a single tournament)?

The argument I took issue with is that you used a one-off event (Laine/Matthews), to extrapolate a point saying this tournament doesn't change anything. You can't use a sample size of one to extrapolate a universal point. If 4 and 5 games at the Memorial cup can shake things up, then the WHC can too, especially if the scouts viewed it as close. I'm in neither camp, I'm very indifferent to who goes first. Both have their cases.

 

[Saekk]

I said that for before WC.

Would be nice if your read it thoroughly and backed up your lies with links. But you cant. Because no one had Kakko #1 pre-WC.

You tried!

I never said he was N.1, i said he was close to equal, reading comprehension buddy.

As the article in the link is from April 4, the extreme closeness between them was noted pre-WC.

You know, discussing things would be easier if you actually read what the opposition is saying.

Can't even said you tried!

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

The argument I took issue with is that you used a one-off event (Laine/Matthews), to extrapolate a point saying this tournament doesn't change anything. You can't use a sample size of one to extrapolate a universal point. If 4 and 5 games at the Memorial cup can shake things up, then the WHC can too, especially if the scouts viewed it as close. I'm in neither camp, I'm very indifferent to who goes first. Both have their cases.

Fair enough

Most people know which way its going on draft day. In fact, another video released today by NJ basically cements the idea that Shero decided on Jack for some time now.



That meeting is pre-WC (quite obviously, not every NJ scout went to the IIHF worlds with Shero and Hynes). There they have a decision (thats teased at the end).

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I never said he was N.1, i said he was close to equal, reading comprehension buddy.

As the article in the link is from April 4, the extreme closeness between them was noted pre-WC.

You know, discussing things would be easier if you actually read what the opposition is saying.

Can't even said you tried!

Yet they were never close in rankings

So what weighs more - every single scouts rankings over the course of a year pre-WC or one single article citing Bob McKenzie (no matter how much we all love Bob)?

Ill let you figure that one out

 

[Saekk]

Yet they were never close in rankings

So what weighs more - every single scouts rankings over the course of a year pre-WC or one single article citing Bob McKenzie (no matter how much we all love Bob)?

Ill let you figure that one out

So you didn't even read the article, thanks for confirming it to me.

 

[Narow]

No offense to your opinion on their closeness pre-WC as its fine to have - but 98% of scouts had Jack first pre-WC. That means it has to be far enough apart to be consensus, no matter how close it actually may be talent wise.

Yet now on HF Kakko is the better player after four games (or even just a single tournament)?

I dont carw who is the best of them all i am certain of is that kakko is going to be a great one.

But is it really hard to see why peoples stance flips this tournament? It is the first time we see both players go up against nhl players and it is probably the first time or first 10 games or so most americans have gotten to see of kakko. Likewise its probably the first few games many get to see of hughes.

From all the hype i heard about hughes so far im very dissapointed, now that doesnt meant i dont believe the hype is granted i just havent seen the premise for it myself(yet). As with kakko i see it every game.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I dont carw who is the best of them all i am certain of is that kakko is going to be a great one.

But is it really hard to see why peoples stance flips this tournament? It is the first time we see both players go up against nhl players and it is probably the first time or first 10 games or so most americans have gotten to see of kakko. Likewise its probably the first few games many get to see of hughes.

From all the hype i heard about hughes so far im very dissapointed, now that doesnt meant i dont believe the hype is granted i just havent seen the premise for it myself(yet). As with kakko i see it every game.

I have no problem with people changing their opinions on the players whenever they want based on whatever they want

But when they try to take that and insinuate GMs or scouts should think the same - thats where I disagree

 

[Narow]

I have no problem with people changing their opinions on the players whenever they want based on whatever they want

But when they try to take that and insinuate GMs or scouts should think the same - thats where I disagree

Oh i see my missunderstanding sorry, your last phrase threw me of so i thought it was people on hf that was the issue.

 

[Snowsii]

Yet they were never close in rankings

So what weighs more - every single scouts rankings over the course of a year pre-WC or one single article citing Bob McKenzie (no matter how much we all love Bob)?

Ill let you figure that one out

"It's like a coinflip" how much closer can you get?

But you're allready made your mind.. Just dont understand why you spend your time arguing here?

Funny, that Devils fans cry, when someone dares to post similar in Hughes topic, but also do the same thing in Kakkos one.. double standarts at it's finest

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Oh i see my missunderstanding sorry, your last phrase threw me of so i thought it was people on hf that was the issue.

Oh well yes, I did imply HF at one point. Thats moreso when enough people are switching based on four games that it goes from clear-wins for Jack (in threads and polls) pre-WC to clear-wins for Kakko up to now.... yes I would disagree with the idea that a single tournament let alone four games should be enough to convince a large contingency to switch.

I wont ever tell anyone they cant think Kakko is better and base it off of whatever they want. But when it comes to assesments of multiple people and typically larger groups opinions - if its affecting enough people that votes are swaying so rapidly then yes id say its beginning to become a problem.

 

[BB88]

No GM bases decisions on the 1st overall from the WC... if they do they either have the players at exactly 50/50 (which is very rare) or theyre short-sighted

Did I say WC is all that should matter?

But when there's no McDavid in the draft would be stupid to stop talking while the season is still going.

Kakko dominated the Liiga playoffs and now WC but let's not look at that at all, because Hughes was determined to go 1st a year ago.
& I dont' again need or want Kakko to go 1st but that mind set is stupid.

 

[1OApick]

Fair enough

Most people know which way its going on draft day. In fact, another video released today by NJ basically cements the idea that Shero decided on Jack for some time now.



That meeting is pre-WC (quite obviously, not every NJ scout went to the IIHF worlds with Shero and Hynes). There they have a decision (thats teased at the end).

They are talking about Europe's 1# and NA 1# anything isn't decided yet. And to be clear they were pretty much equal before the tournament because they haven't seen Kakko enough. Now they finally understand who is better. You are about have great player anaway why don't you just trust your management to make right pick. I can see your emotional investment just try not to worry and enjoy these players playing great hockey.

 

[Nate070]

Luckily in that video Shero has decided his pick

And that video was recorded before the WC

So there you have it - the WC is not influencing this decision nor does it ever.

FANTASTIC NEWS IF SO!!! NYR has a new bandwagon fan right here! I will have a good reason to travel to NY again and finally see MSG

 

[Nate070]

Well of course Im never trying to take away from his Liiga play. It was excellent. My point is, even if scouts were 51/49 for Jack pre-WC - the WC isn't making that difference for the GM of the 1st pick. It would literally need to be 50-50 (which it was not) and it has never happened before that this tournament tilted favor for a 1st overall.

Wow, you do seem to have a lot of insight in these matters. Which organization do you work for? Scouting for NJD or NYR? Maybe in the management team of NJD?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Can't see why Kakko's season playing against men is somehow negative towards him. Like Hughes didn't have a chance to play in Europe? He definitely had a chance to play in Europe this year to develop.

As an American, he cannot play in Europe as a 17-year old.