RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft) Part 3

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Best case senerio Kaapo is invited to Worlds. Theoretically, he could go to the U-18 and Worlds but that seems like a ton of tough games on a condensed schedule. (Which doesn’t include a possible comeback in Liiga) I would be worried about injuries and fatigue. Maybe, I’m wrong in my thinking.


I have to admit, I like the gold and blue helmet gimmick. Especially, for tracking prospects.
 
You can't be serious? I've watched both play plenty and right now Kakko's so much better it's not even funny. I'm also confident Kakko will outperform him at worlds if both play there.

Really confused by some of these statements, you just need to watch him play... Which I know you do. Players don't just magically transform over a summer into some ethereal unicorns. Kotkaniemi is still a more incomplete and less NHL-ready a player than Kakko is - right this very moment. Kakko's skillset is very special. I'll also say I think Kakko's physical abilities are also better than Kotkaniemi's, right now.
Have we already forgotten what happened with Dahlin? Last season, he was a good but not great player in the SHL. Was chosen to the Olympic team as a gimmick more than anything else, wasn't good enough to really play there... And now he's a great player in the NHL.

High-end prospects can take massive steps like that in a short period of time. They have elite skills but they're not finished products yet. That's why when national team coaches are building their teams, they usually prefer the safer, more proven players. They're not building a team for next season, they're building it for a 2-week tournament right here and now.

Players like Kakko have the ability to be difference-makers in those tournaments but they could also be complete non-factors. That's why it's difficult to select them to the team having never coached them before. Not impossible but difficult. That's my whole point - he can get selected but it's not a certainty right now.
 
Best case senerio Kaapo is invited to Worlds. Theoretically, he could go to the U-18 and Worlds but that seems like a ton of tough games on a condensed schedule. (Which doesn’t include a possible comeback in Liiga) I would be worried about injuries and fatigue. Maybe, I’m wrong in my thinking.

It's not that condensed. The U-18 WJC take place between the 18 and 28th. If we get to the medal round, that's 7 games max. The Carlson Hockey Games are the next weekend and if Jalonen wants to try out Kakko, he could play him in the last game vs Sweden which would be the toughest test possible. He wouldn't even have to travel between Finland and Sweden much. :D And even with that scenario, he still would have plenty of rest before the Worlds. Laine played way more games during his draft year than Kakko.
 
Yeah, I really don't get why it'd be so condensed? If TPS loses in playoffs in the first round, that'd be more than enough time for rest. A flight to Sweden is like 1 hour and incurs no jet lag anyway. Even if he didn't participate at u-18s I'm sure he'd be playing in BSM playoffs, is that really a better way to spend the time? Or playing no matches at all? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

U-18s in Sweden are very different from u-18s in North America.
 
High-end prospects take huge steps in one summer. Kakko is better than Kotkaniemi was a year ago but not better than Kotkaniemi right now. Kakko can step right into the NHL next season. But one of the best Finnish NHL players right now? Definitely not. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. One step at a time.
I disagree. Kakko was ahead of Kotka in last u18 tournament. Also Pulju was dominant at u-18 level without Aho or anybody else.
 
Kaapo Kakko is right now best player in FEL. In playoffs. Against men. By miles. And this comes from guy who's team is against his team right now. He is dominant player right now and in my mind I haven't seen that kind of dominance from any other our young guns prior draft.
 
Kakko's spot on the men's national team is by no means a done deal - he likely needs to prove himself in those games if he wants to crack the final roster. He's never even played at EHT. It would be extremely rare if he was selected without any games with the men's team. He may have to sacrifice the U18 Worlds if he wants to play at the men's tournament.

Considering the players available from the NHL, the KHL and from KHL level Kärpät team (after they destroy whoever goes against them in the Liiga finals)... Kakko isn't a special player anymore. He's one of the guys fighting for a spot. A guy like Jussi Jokinen can get chosen without any games with the national team but that's about it.

The EHT tournament in May is a possibility but it would mean a ton of games for him in a short period of time. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he skipped the U18 Worlds.
I disagree about Kakko not being special enough to be picked without a camp.

I mean, we are talking about a kid who is physically dominant in Liiga and whose individual skill is so much higher than anyone else in the league. I can't see any reason why we wouldn't want to use his skills in WHC over some average 30yo KHL grinder that comes to play 0+1 tournament in the 3rd or 4th line. Hell, I'd pick Kakko over slow 36yo Jokinen anytime. I don't doubt that Jokinen couldn't be a solid guy for the 3rd or 4th line still but Kakko just has much more talent and that talent might just be what we need to win gold.

Even Laine got selected to the WHC without camp and he immediately made it 1st line after dominant playoff run in Liiga. If the last ~30 games in Liiga are any indication, Kakko is above Laine already as a player and therefore he absolutely should be selected for the WHC, if only just for the 13th forward spot. I'm sure if Kakko gets a chance, he will show why he should be in WHC squad.
 
Have we already forgotten what happened with Dahlin? Last season, he was a good but not great player in the SHL. Was chosen to the Olympic team as a gimmick more than anything else, wasn't good enough to really play there... And now he's a great player in the NHL.

High-end prospects can take massive steps like that in a short period of time. They have elite skills but they're not finished products yet. That's why when national team coaches are building their teams, they usually prefer the safer, more proven players. They're not building a team for next season, they're building it for a 2-week tournament right here and now.

Players like Kakko have the ability to be difference-makers in those tournaments but they could also be complete non-factors. That's why it's difficult to select them to the team having never coached them before. Not impossible but difficult. That's my whole point - he can get selected but it's not a certainty right now.

Dahlin was a defenseman; different story.
 
Laine played way more games during his draft year than Kakko.

And he was playing in the FEL finals in late April. Does someone believe U18 games put more of a burden on a teenager?

That's my whole point - he can get selected but it's not a certainty right now.

What do you think the odds of him making it are currently? Does he have a 30 percent chance? 50? 70?

Best case senerio Kaapo is invited to Worlds. Theoretically, he could go to the U-18 and Worlds but that seems like a ton of tough games on a condensed schedule. (Which doesn’t include a possible comeback in Liiga)

I really don't think U18 games would be all that "tough" for Kakko when he's head and shoulders above the competition at that level. He's physically dominating the Finnish Elite League against grown men. What are 18-year-old boys gonna do to stop him?
 
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The National team coach Jukka Jalonen has said that if he has to choose between two Liiga players who might have similar impact, he'll choose the young one. Building a good relationship early on with Kaapo is beneficial for the National Team too. Can't remember which interview it was he said it in but he gave inside the last year.
 
Even if he didn't participate at u-18s I'm sure he'd be playing in BSM playoffs, is that really a better way to spend the time? Or playing no matches at all?

What makes you so sure he wouldn't be playing for the men's national team instead of TPS juniors? The BSM playoffs will be over on April 7th already.
 
I disagree about Kakko not being special enough to be picked without a camp.

I mean, we are talking about a kid who is physically dominant in Liiga and whose individual skill is so much higher than anyone else in the league. I can't see any reason why we wouldn't want to use his skills in WHC over some average 30yo KHL grinder that comes to play 0+1 tournament in the 3rd or 4th line. Hell, I'd pick Kakko over slow 36yo Jokinen anytime. I don't doubt that Jokinen couldn't be a solid guy for the 3rd or 4th line still but Kakko just has much more talent and that talent might just be what we need to win gold.

Even Laine got selected to the WHC without camp and he immediately made it 1st line after dominant playoff run in Liiga. If the last ~30 games in Liiga are any indication, Kakko is above Laine already as a player and therefore he absolutely should be selected for the WHC, if only just for the 13th forward spot. I'm sure if Kakko gets a chance, he will show why he should be in WHC squad.
What you and I would do is very different than what national team head coaches do. As said, Laine played on EHT which gives the coach added confidence to select him - the coach knows he can play his system. If he doesn't have that information, the player needs to be very special for him to take that risk.

I was trying to bring a touch of realism to this thread but apparently people want to overreact and start hyping up him much more than what's needed, so go ahead. I mean, he's so much stronger than McDavid and more skilled than Crosby it's crazy. Kakko is the best player in the world right now, not even close. Let's start there, then. I hope this keeps everyone satisfied now.
 
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Have we already forgotten what happened with Dahlin? Last season, he was a good but not great player in the SHL. Was chosen to the Olympic team as a gimmick more than anything else, wasn't good enough to really play there... And now he's a great player in the NHL.

High-end prospects can take massive steps like that in a short period of time. They have elite skills but they're not finished products yet. That's why when national team coaches are building their teams, they usually prefer the safer, more proven players. They're not building a team for next season, they're building it for a 2-week tournament right here and now.

Players like Kakko have the ability to be difference-makers in those tournaments but they could also be complete non-factors. That's why it's difficult to select them to the team having never coached them before. Not impossible but difficult. That's my whole point - he can get selected but it's not a certainty right now.
Dahlin? Who cares about Dahlin, he even is a defenseman. And have you forgotten what happened with Laine? He was chosen - not as a joke - and dominated the tournament.

Sheesh, it's unbelievable how low you are on Kakko. You seriously think Filppula is better than Kakko, right now?
I was trying to bring a touch of realism to this thread but apparently people want to overreact and start hyping up him much more than what's needed, so go ahead. I mean, he's so much stronger than McDavid and more skilled than Crosby it's crazy. Kakko is the best player in the world right now, not even close. Let's start there, then. I hope this keeps everyone satisfied now.
This is not realism, it's pessimism.

And stop with that Crosby / McDavid garbage, that's your own imagination and a strawman. Just how childish can you be? There's something between "Better than Filppula and Komarov" and "Better than McDavid", which you should know.

I'll say who I think he's significantly better than pre-draft. Patrik Laine, Aleksander Barkov.
 
What you and I would do is very different than what national team head coaches do. As said, Laine played on EHT which gives the coach added confidence to select him - the coach knows he can play his system. If he doesn't have that information, the player needs to be very special for him to take that risk.

I was trying to bring a touch of realism to this thread but apparently people want to overreact and start hyping up him much more than what's needed, so go ahead. I mean, he's so much stronger than McDavid and more skilled than Crosby it's crazy. Kakko is the best player in the world right now, not even close. Let's start there, then. I hope this keeps everyone satisfied now.
I just think it's in the past to think young and skilled players aren't able to carry their weight in nowadays game, especially if the player is as proven as Kakko is. Game is so much about speed and skill nowadays that it would be kind of dumb not to take pick Kakko, if only just for 13th forward. Let him rise in the lineup if he has what it takes, just don't play it safe and pick someone like Oskar Osala to play 0+0 tournament over Kakko.
 
Dahlin? Who cares about Dahlin, he even is a defenseman. And have you forgotten what happened with Laine? He was chosen - not as a joke - and dominated the tournament.

Sheesh, it's unbelievable how low you are on Kakko. You seriously think Filppula is better than Kakko, right now?

This is not realism, it's pessimism.

And stop with that Crosby / McDavid garbage, that's your own imagination and a strawman. Just how childish can you be? There's something between "Better than Filppula and Komarov" and "Better than McDavid", which you should know.

I'll say who I think he's significantly better than pre-draft. Patrik Laine, Aleksander Barkov.

I posted before this current season Kakko has potential to be better talent than Laine or Barkov. I remember getting a lot of doubts from posting that. He has obviously still long way to be Barkov calibre player but the talent is there and his talent was obvious to me before this season started. I have never seen player of this age be this dominant at this league 21 goals in last 29 games is just nuts.

I’m not saying i have a crystal ball or i am good at evaluating talent. I think i’m more wrong than right but at this point it certainly looks good. It was pretty crazy statement back then.
 
What you and I would do is very different than what national team head coaches do. As said, Laine played on EHT which gives the coach added confidence to select him - the coach knows he can play his system. If he doesn't have that information, the player needs to be very special for him to take that risk.

I was trying to bring a touch of realism to this thread but apparently people want to overreact and start hyping up him much more than what's needed, so go ahead. I mean, he's so much stronger than McDavid and more skilled than Crosby it's crazy. Kakko is the best player in the world right now, not even close. Let's start there, then. I hope this keeps everyone satisfied now.
But the point was that Kakko is good enough to play in the WHC now? No one has said anything about comparisons to McDavid and Crosby, that is just you being childish and not being able to think clearly in this conversation.

Very annoying to see you being childish in this thread as I never thought you would be like that.. You wasn't being realistic. You are so low on Kakko it's ridiculous. I don't think we get many players from the NHL anyways and I would take Kakko over most Finnish players in Liiga. KHL is totally another thing.
 
But the point was that Kakko is good enough to play in the WHC now? No one has said anything about comparisons to McDavid and Crosby, that is just you being childish and not being able to think clearly in this conversation.

Very annoying to see you being childish in this thread as I never thought you would be like that..
I have said again and again that he's good enough to play there. All I'm trying to say is that he doesn't have a guaranteed spot on the team, he needs to prove himself at the national team level. But apparently that makes me a Kakko hater, so whatever.
 
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I have said again and again that he's good enough to play there. All I'm trying to say is that he doesn't have a guaranteed spot on the team, he needs to prove himself at the national team level. But apparently that makes me a Kakko hater, so whatever.
That is true. It is not guaranteed, but I'd like to think it is likely as Jalonen likes younger guys. And if he will play in an EHT tournament, he will get his chance. If he had played earlier in that one tournament, this conversation probably never would have happened.
 
That is true. It is not guaranteed, but I'd like to think it is likely as Jalonen likes younger guys. And if he will play in an EHT tournament, he will get his chance. If he had played earlier in that one tournament, this conversation probably never would have happened.
That's exactly what I've been trying to say this entire time. I think it's likely he skips the U18 Worlds to focus on making the team because he understands no spot is given, it has to be earned. I would love to see him at the U18 Worlds because I'll be travelling to Sweden to cover the tournament. But he has nothing to gain by playing there. Everyone already knows he can dominate against his peers. That's why Dahlin skipped the tournament last year as well. Having a dominant performance at the men's level is much more important in Kakko's quest to go first overall. And that starts by him earning a spot on the final roster.
 
After he scored that first goal, yes a goal, all the friends were yelling about the SICK effort. Immediately after I saw it getting challenged and I thought how frigging bizarre cause from the initial look there didn't seem to be anything there to re-wind apart from the highlight. I fast-forwarded most of that slow motion feed (cause I thought it was 100% good goal) but from one angle I saw Palve close to the net with a defender between him and the goalkeeper. What actually turned out bizarre was that they overturned the goal which was as clean as any goal would be that involved net front presence. So instead of a sick individual goal we're left with a sick decision. Was so mad I didn't want to hear the official excuses. I suppose Palve may have had some insignificant contact with the keeper, but who knows. Nonetheless even his skates were off the blue ice and Kakko certainly wasn't obstructing anyone. I didn't care about some text-book details at that point anymore than I do now. HPK's coach doing backflips or whatever on the bench right after the decision was announced alone tells the story. Just an awful officiating, not only in that one goal but throughout the entire game. The level of incompetence still baffles me. This game wasn't HPK vs TPS but HPK & REFS vs TPS(/Kakko) with an outcome no better than any bad joke. Anyhow, Kakko skating around the net, twisting and turning in the corner, finding an opening and tearing his way from the wall to the net while being chased or poked by 2-4 players - pretty much the entire line - yet still scoring almost out of sheer will, will always remain his first "true" playoff goal for me. Just an unbelievable effort.

But yeah posters here are right, TPS is now all about Kakko and this particular D eligible kid has a world on his shoulders while carrying a professional team in a playoff race. The team's strategy isn't working, lines are as dysfunctional as they could ever come (aside from one) and all the key & veteran players who've been highly praised just sleeping and beyond terrible to watch. Palve scored one goal, but later on he royally messed up the only chance they had at the end when he was supposed to protect the empty net. This was right after Kakko had just scored his second and narrowed the lead to one goal (3-4) with maybe ~ the two minutes left in the clock while fighting to bring his team back. Instead of trying to do anything sensible, Palve just skated, parked and mispositioned him not between the puck/opponent, but somewhere else instead while practically paving the way for a sure goal (just the wrong one). Geez, it was like watching someone surrender to a thief who threatened with a plastic knife. Anyway this was maybe the best game I've ever seen Kakko play (there are so many that it's difficult to tell). HPK didn't have the tools to contain him and most of the times it seemed like he was just doing whatever he liked out there. Of course all the slashing, cross-checking if what not miraculously gets overlooked by the refs while they're too busy looking video tapes from his goals. HPK is one the worst teams in the playoffs so at least there's still hope.

I've said this before, but I wouldn't mind seeing Kakko in the WJHC. He'd be far too good for a U18 tournament but at the same time he'd be the best asset anyone could come up with as far as achieving the gold medal comes. The WHCs are the bigger deal and at this point I don't think no one is going to rob him off the ticket from that plane, not even if Finland got more enforcements from the NHL than they hoped for. He's just too good to be left out, not to mention the country probably going mad if he wasn't selected. Still, such a shame TPS turned out this way this year, I really would have enjoyed seeing them make past the quarter finals just to see more of the Kakko. Unfortunately the sun doesn't seem to be shining too bright as far as the entire team goes and right now that particular dream is slipping away.

Anyway I've never seen anything quite like this in FEL from player so young. The great thing about Kakko is that not only can he control the game and great scoring chances to his team mates, he can score himself in so many ways while having pretty insane creativity as far as the goal scoring itself comes. He doesn't shy away from contact at all. Quite the contrary, not only does he already possess the physique to engage defenders who are making a living playing hockey, but it's like he enjoys it. Then again if you could make grown up men look like amateurs while skating through, around, if not over them without losing the puck, who wouldn't? With that said, which ever the team it is that gets a ticket to draft him with an opportunity to complete Kakko's transitioning to center is going to be very very lucky. On the other hand should they take a pass with him, I think that decision would haunt them gravely for the next 10-15 years. If someone haven't seen a full game of him yet and thoroughly appreciated watching P. Forsberg in action back in the day, I would fully recommend watching one of the following games, all the sixty minutes of it.
 
High-end prospects take huge steps in one summer. Kakko is better than Kotkaniemi was a year ago but not better than Kotkaniemi right now. Kakko can step right into the NHL next season. But one of the best Finnish NHL players right now? Definitely not. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. One step at a time.


Why not keep forum debates on forums, instead of looking for some sort of approval on twitter from people who've nothing to do with this.
 
He doesn't shy away from contact at all. Quite the contrary, not only does he already possess the physique to engage defenders who are making a living playing hockey, but it's like he enjoys it.

Peter Forsberg also enjoyed it greatly. That might have something to do with why he only played 708 regular season games in the NHL. Thinking about career longevity, it might not be a terribly bad idea not to always jump headfirst into every potential physical battle.
 
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Peter Forsberg also enjoyed it greatly. That might have something to do with why he only played 708 regular season games in the NHL. Thinking about career longevity, it might not be a terribly bad idea not to always jump headfirst into every potential physical battle.

I think Kakko will end up bigger than Forsberg(Height and Weight) and the rules help star players today to stay healthier. (not as physical).
 
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