Confirmed with Link: Ruutu to NJ for Loktionov and cond. 3rd in 2017

[Just Win]

If the Flyers can dump Mezaros for a third Lou could have done the same thing. Dumping our D wasn't an issue. Mez is a UFA and is pretty bad in his own right. There was a market. Lou didn't want to.

Pick apart his quotes: "I trust this group. I will do what I can to make it better." Lou wasn't going to trade his well-liked captain, a respected veteran who takes pucks off his face, nor was he going to trade Greene's D pair. It just wasn't going to happen.

If Lou wanted to trade any of our excess D he could have. I have no doubt in my mind of that. Just look at the trades that went down yesterday. Lou simply didn't want to.

Meszaros is still better than Salvador and Volchenkov. At least he can score some points. And both of our Dmen have terrible contracts and with the cap not going up as much as expected were probably harder to move than you think. Trading an older 3rd pairing dman is always easier when they are UFA's. We would actually have to pay another team to take on one of those contracts and are probably better off using our second compliance buyout on Sal in the offseason.

Still Lou had more than enough time to finally fix that 9 NHL dmen crap that has gone one for way too long. It is now almost two seasons and still the same ********.

 

[Mory Schneideur*]

to be fair, a lot of people (including myself) had these same reservations about Clowe, and he has been pretty good for us (when healthy, at least)

Clowe's been great. Does anyone know why he's been wearing the "A" lately? I might have asked this before, but didn't see an answer.

 

[njdevil26]

We have way too many forwards. At this rate, there's no way Lou can sign a guy like Stastny or any other free agent forward. Also, Boucher and Matteau are going to have to stay in the AHL.

 

[devilsblood]

yeah ruutus contract will definitely be the hurdle in signing talent

Like I said. Ruutu, Volch, Zub's, Clowe, Sal, all signed for next year. About $19 mil's worth. the first 4 of those guys are signed for 2 more years, about $16 mil annually. These contracts add up. They do become hurdles.

 

[njdevil26]

Like I said. Ruutu, Volch, Zub's, Clowe, Sal, all signed for next year. About $19 mil's worth. the first 4 of those guys are signed for 2 more years, about $16 mil annually. These contracts add up. They do become hurdles.

I really think one of Salvador/Volchenkov will get bought out. I also think Harrold will disappear. I know he doesn't make much it's something.

 

[devilsblood]

Honestly I think everyone stopped caring about Loktionov's inclusion in this trade the moment we learned he wanted out.

What leverage did Lou truly have? 20 games of Loktionov isn't getting you into Six Flags.

This is the best he could do with that.

Have said this a couple times already but:

I don't give this org a pass for making young players want out.

 

[hidek91]

What it comes down to is that this is a very difficult team to improve without hurting it elsewhere. Our pieces are very good young defenseman that no one wants to give up yet. You have all of these good looking young D under 23 who may turn into franchise cornerstones or they may bust. Who knows? But you don't want to take the chance of trading one or two of them and finding out that you kept the wrong one.

It's why Lou doesn't trade young D. It's why he doesn't even trade prospects that he hasn't seen in NA typically. You have to know what you really have before you trade it.

Lou looked at this team, a handful of points out of 8th, and wanted to improve it. He had to do that without trading our young D or Boucher/Matteau nor could he use a first round pick. It's a tall task. You're not getting a top 6 winger for Salvador (even though I don't think Lou ever wanted to break up the logjam).

Ruutu is a good player. And there's nothing wrong with this trade. I'm not going to get bent out of shape over a 2017 conditional third nor am I going to get bent out of shape over a contract that Lou, worst case, can buy out this summer.

I agree with you that trading D prospects would be dumb but did I say that should do it? There were some trades yesterday, when teams paid mid-round picks for quite good players (pending UFAs) and that's what we could do:

- Pittsburgh got Stempniak for 3rd
- Washington got Penner for 4th
- Ottawa got Hemsky for 3rd and 5th

Same thing happened with D-men so we could easily acquire someone better than Ruutu. We could also pay more (let's say 2015 2nd round) if player resigns with us - that way Montreal got Vanek from Buffalo.

Ruutu may be good player but unfortunately his stats this season are horrible. Of course he may improve to what he used to be few seasons ago but until it happens we have lost the trade.

 

[devilsblood]

I really think one of Salvador/Volchenkov will get bought out. I also think Harrold will disappear. I know he doesn't make much it's something.

Ya I think Volch is a goner. Then again, I thought we'd trade a couple d-men a year ago.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Meszaros is still better than Salvador and Volchenkov. At least he can score some points. And both of our Dmen have terrible contracts and with the cap not going up as much as expected were probably harder to move than you think. Trading an older 3rd pairing dman is always easier when they are UFA's. We would actually have to pay another team to take on one of those contracts and are probably better off using our second compliance buyout on Sal in the offseason.

Still Lou had more than enough time to finally fix that 9 NHL dmen crap that has gone one for way too long. It is now almost two seasons and still the same ********.

Maybe Sal. Not A-Train. Different games though and probably not that big of a deal to a team that's looking for what Sal/A-Train bring.

And yes you're absolutely right, trading UFAs is always easier. But I think Lou could have found some poor contracts (forwards) around the league (Briere?) and cleared the logjam if he really wanted to. I don't think he wanted to.

The only one he could have traded with little consequence was Fayne I guess. But he wasn't trading Zid, Sal, or Volch. Not if he "believes in this team" like he says. Any moves would have been viewed as selling by the same locker room that he claims to believe in.

 

[devilsblood]

We have way too many forwards. At this rate, there's no way Lou can sign a guy like Stastny or any other free agent forward. Also, Boucher and Matteau are going to have to stay in the AHL.

Unless we let CBGB walk. And move Zub's Ruutu whomever in the 4th line, thus allowing us room to improve the top 2 lines.

And of coarse Jagr is not actually signed for next season.

 

[Ben Matlock]

By the time it adds up the contracts will expire (if that makes any sense). It's inconsequential really.

We'll have ~ 21 million in cap space.

8 forwards under contract (Elias, Zajac, Henrique, Ryder, Brunner, Ruutu, Zubrus, Clowe)

6 D (Sal, Volch, Merrill, Larsson, Gelinas, Greene)

1 G (Cory)

Figure 3 million gets you CBGB.

SO you have 22 million. Jagr probably sees a similar deal. Brings it down to 20 million.

Money won't be an issue next year.

Gelinas is a RFA, no? Harrold is signed for next year.

Do Jagr's and Zid Ze Kid'z bonuses count this year or next year?

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Have said this a couple times already but:

I don't give this org a pass for making young players want out.

And that's more than fair. You're absolutely right.

I agree with you that trading D prospects would be dumb but did I say that should do it? There were some trades yesterday, when teams paid mid-round picks for quite good players (pending UFAs) and that's what we could do:

- Pittsburgh got Stempniak for 3rd
- Washington got Penner for 4th
- Ottawa got Hemsky for 3rd and 5th

Same thing happened with D-men so we could easily acquire someone better than Ruutu. We could also pay more (let's say 2015 2nd round) if player resigns with us - that way Montreal got Vanek from Buffalo.

Ruutu may be good player but unfortunately his stats this season are horrible. Of course he may improve to what he used to be few seasons ago but until it happens we have lost the trade.

Prices would have been very different from NJ though, consider that. I think teams look at what we have a surplus of and target that.

Let's take a look at your examples:

Stempniak is a UFA. Probably a bottom 6 forward. Has played like one for years. Doesn't play "Devils hockey." Doesn't light the lamp enough for a team like NJ who is without a first rounder to give up a third for him. While Pitt, who is clearly all in, can afford to take that risk.

Penner has his own problems. Lou probably didn't want to go near him. Hemsky surprised me. I wanted Hemsky too.

Snow, as hockey dumb as he is, wasn't trading Vanek to NJ for that package.

 

[Just Win]

Gelinas is a RFA, no? Harrold is signed for next year.

Do Jagr's and Zid Ze Kid'z bonuses count this year or next year?

Both bonuses count against this years cap since we have enough room under the cap to fit both in.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Unless we let CBGB walk. And move Zub's Ruutu whomever in the 4th line, thus allowing us room to improve the top 2 lines.

And of coarse Jagr is not actually signed for next season.

One of CBGB has to go looking at capgeek if we're signing a forward this off-season. Probably Carter since he's the best of the bunch and can make more money elsewhere.

Still hoping Gio and Gio go home to play together in Buffalo or something.

Gelinas is a RFA, no? Harrold is signed for next year.

Do Jagr's and Zid Ze Kid'z bonuses count this year or next year?

Gelinas is an RFA. Harrold is signed, you're correct.

Bonuses to Jagr don't count since it wasn't signing, it was performance.

 

[MartyOwns]

Like I said. Ruutu, Volch, Zub's, Clowe, Sal, all signed for next year. About $19 mil's worth. the first 4 of those guys are signed for 2 more years, about $16 mil annually. These contracts add up. They do become hurdles.

right but who replaces them? our pipeline sucks. Lou should've been a seller, no question, for the last few years. but until he's gone, we're going to continue to get Lou-esque players. and to be fair, the devils just became an even harder team to play against, because of all the players you mentioned (even Sal has his moments). I do definitely agree with your comment regarding keeping our younger players, but I think that's more on Pete.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

right but who replaces them? our pipeline sucks. Lou should've been a seller, no question, for the last few years. but until he's gone, we're going to continue to get Lou-esque players. and to be fair, the devils just became an even harder team to play against, because of all the players you mentioned (even Sal has his moments). I do definitely agree with your comment regarding keeping our younger players, but I think that's more on Pete.

Ruutu, Volch, Zub's, Clowe, Sal

could easily be replaced by

Boucher, Larsson, Matteau, and Severson in the next few years or countless other trades or UFAs. I don't get too caught up in the pipeline. I think we have more than enough ammo in our D pool to make a move for a F if Lou feels we desperately need one.

 

[hidek91]

And that's more than fair. You're absolutely right.



Prices would have been very different from NJ though, consider that. I think teams look at what we have a surplus of and target that.

Let's take a look at your examples:

Stempniak is a UFA. Probably a bottom 6 forward. Has played like one for years. Doesn't play "Devils hockey." Doesn't light the lamp enough for a team like NJ who is without a first rounder to give up a third for him. While Pitt, who is clearly all in, can afford to take that risk.

Penner has his own problems. Lou probably didn't want to go near him. Hemsky surprised me. I wanted Hemsky too.

Snow, as hockey dumb as he is, wasn't trading Vanek to NJ for that package.

Yeah, getting Vanek for that price would be impossible but Stempniak & Penner would be much better options, given that they would walk this summer so we aren't bond for 2 more years - and if WSH&PIT could have got them, we could too as our picks in the same rounds are more valuable. I agree that losing 3rd round pick isn't very comfortable but at least you have cap space to work with.

 

[njdevil26]

Hey if Lou wants to sign Stastny along with Vanek or Gaborik and let CBGB walk I'm alright with that.

Vanek-Stastny-Ruutu
Henrique-Zajac-Brunner
Clowe-Elias-Ryder
Matteau-Josefson-Zubrus

 

[NJ CUP*]

case in point- ruutu>loki. I don't think NJCUP can argue against that..

ummmmm

rutuu > loki both with 2 months left

loki > rutuu when rutuu has 2 years left on his crap deal

 

[devilsblood]

right but who replaces them? our pipeline sucks. Lou should've been a seller, no question, for the last few years. but until he's gone, we're going to continue to get Lou-esque players. and to be fair, the devils just became an even harder team to play against, because of all the players you mentioned (even Sal has his moments). I do definitely agree with your comment regarding keeping our younger players, but I think that's more on Pete.

Being a hard team to play against means nothing if you don't win games.

Let's go win some freaking games. I swear I'll stop complaining.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Yeah, getting Vanek for that price would be impossible but Stempniak & Penner would be much better options, given that they would walk this summer so we aren't bond for 2 more years - and if WSH&PIT could have got them, we could too as our picks in the same rounds are more valuable. I agree that losing 3rd round pick isn't very comfortable but at least you have cap space to work with.

Penner is like getting another Michael Ryder. Lou wanted someone who brought more than that. A more complete game. Stempniak I thought was an overpay to be honest.

I don't think Lou wanted any part of either. I'm disappointed about Hemsky who I thought would be a great fit here on our top line.

 

[NJ CUP*]

Being a hard team to play against means nothing if you don't win games.

Let's go win some freaking games. I swear I'll stop complaining.

"being a hard team to play against" thats typical devils hockey right there out shoot a team 30-19 when those aren't really quality shots. win the time of possession but what good is it if its on the boards. then when they do that get that golden opportunity to get that tying goal. its going to land on the stick of ruutu. we all know how that will end up

 

[devilsblood]

Ruutu, Volch, Zub's, Clowe, Sal

could easily be replaced by

Boucher, Larsson, Matteau, and Severson in the next few years or countless other trades or UFAs. I don't get too caught up in the pipeline. I think we have more than enough ammo in our D pool to make a move for a F if Lou feels we desperately need one.

I think one thing becomes pretty clear here. If Pete hangs around, and Matteau does his due diligence. He is going to be in this lineup sooner then later. Dude's agent is prob stoked right now.

 

[hidek91]

right but who replaces them? our pipeline sucks. Lou should've been a seller, no question, for the last few years. but until he's gone, we're going to continue to get Lou-esque players. and to be fair, the devils just became an even harder team to play against, because of all the players you mentioned (even Sal has his moments). I do definitely agree with your comment regarding keeping our younger players, but I think that's more on Pete.

Basically you could overpay Gaborik, Vanek or Moulson if you get two of those overpaid and below average players off the books.

You could offer (this offseason) 6.5M+ to Moulson if you got rid of Ruutu & Salvador. And I'd rather see Moulson+Larsson in the lineup than Ruutu+Salvador.

Of course we have lots of cap money but with good cap management we could have 2-3 legit first-liners, given that we don't have contracts of Brodeur (or sign him at most at 1.5M), Salvador, Harrold, one of Clowe/Zubrus & Ruutu.

 

[MartyOwns]

Ruutu, Volch, Zub's, Clowe, Sal

could easily be replaced by

Boucher, Larsson, Matteau, and Severson in the next few years or countless other trades or UFAs. I don't get too caught up in the pipeline. I think we have more than enough ammo in our D pool to make a move for a F if Lou feels we desperately need one.

right, in the next few years. he's talking about next season