News Article: Rutherford and Johnston are staying. Both of them.

[PensFanSince1989]

I blame both JR and MJ and I would prefer both to be gone. Did you read MJ's comments about not having any issues with our current state of offense???
Nothing about the guy screams leader to me. He seems timid and his team played with that identity.

I would like to focus on improving our roster, not doing another coach search. Yes, you can do both at the same time, but I'd also want a coach to have some say in his team via draft and FA. I'm not sold that Johnston is a great coach, but I'm not sold that he isn't, or at least, can't be yet.

If Babcock wanted to coach here, sure, I'd drop Johnston, but that's a longshot to say the least. Otherwise, focus on filling the holes in our roster, and shedding the dead weight. Because that's where I believe the main problem lies with our team, not Johnston.

Unfortunately, I don't have faith in Rutherford filling those holes in our lineups and shedding the dead weight. So i'm disappointed if he stays (unless he proves me, and most of us wrong about him)

 

[Asuna]

I don't know about that. There were several questionable trades this season along with a questionable signing to Fleury. I know I am just a fan but the writing is on the wall. We have seen this kind of stuff before with the Canes. Ward has 1 great season and BAM loaded contract with NTC for a crazy amount of time. Don't even get me started on us trading away Andrew Ladd and Just Williams. Oh and there was the Jussi Jokinen fleecing. I could go on.

I'm not saying JR didn't add to problem..he most certainly did. But to blame everything on him is wrong, imo. Shero contributed more to the problem here than Rutherford.

But don't worry, Rutherford has more time to run this org into the ground now

 

[BHD]

Yeah, there is waaaaay too much love for coach Johnston on this board. And I continue to believe that's mostly because he was the guy we hired after Bylsma. So there's blind faith in him based on his predecessor.

Which is not unlike how we felt about Disco Dan after Therrien lost the collective group. The difference is we actually won something in Disco's early days.

You could also argue Johnston is receiving unfair blame from the fanbase.

 

[Coastal Kev]

So we were supposed to play an exciting up tempo style with no defensemen who can lug the puck. Interesting.

Anyone with common sense would know MJ changed the style his team was playing due to injuries. Any coach would have.

Anyone assuming Kunitz wouldn't have had preference over an unproductive younger guy like Bennett is also kidding themselves.

It's one thing to say we could use a coach with more experience in the NHL. Someone who's better suited to coach this team in the clutch and grab/idiotic reffing era. But MJ was not the problem this season.

I have seen the Pens play up tempo with less than stellar dmen before. In 91, the Pens had Jim Paek, Paul Stanton, Randy Hillier and Peter Taglianetti playing huge minutes. Their offense didn't struggle.

I could make decent breakout passes a dman and I am the furthest thing from a pro as you can get. Are you telling me that the Penguins somehow found a group of Dmen that are first in the history of the sport that can't somehow make a 25 ft pass??

I call BS. I saw their defense chipping the puck out of the zone as if they were instructed to do so by their coach. MJ coached not to get blown out, keep games close and vanilla. Now the PR machine uses DK to scream... oh so close, let's just get our PMD's back and everything is fine.

I was born at night, it wasn't last night.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

1991 isn't even comparable to today in terms of the pace of the game and mix between offence and defence.

 

[The Greatest 101]

The injury excuse is so lame.The pens suffered even more injuries last season,but never looked this miserable.

 

[mpp9]

The injury excuse is so lame.The pens suffered even more injuries last season,but never looked this miserable.

Our defense was NHL caliber last year. We get into the 2nd round with the previous season's defense.

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

Disappointing, but one other thing from that article caught my eye, and that is that Kunitz/Scuderi might be bought out.

That would be a huge positive for us.

Exactly. I mean what else can Rutherford do for this team if he does that for the team? Surely nobody thought the series we just played would end in firings, right? Anything else is pretty much Shero's fauly. He can't force-draft wingers all of a sudden. Buy out Scuderi and trade Kunitz. Play Kapanen and Sundqvist. We should be headed in the right direction with that.

 

[BHD]

The injury excuse is so lame.The pens suffered even more injuries last season,but never looked this miserable.

That's because they didn't have almost all of their puck moving defensemen go down for extended periods of time.

 

[Coastal Kev]

1991 isn't even comparable to today in terms of the pace of the game and mix between offence and defence.

Not the point... Read again please. You and others are saying the Pens don't have dmen that can't complete a breakout pass and I call BS.


MJ employed a NJ Devil style game plan the past 2 months. That's what bad coaches do, they coach safe and hope. Hope isn't a very successful strategy.

If you and others want buy the D being responsible for our lack of offense, enjoy.

But remember this, and it's a fact. The Pens were 1-7 with Letang leading up to his injury and that 1 win came against a mess of an Edmonton team.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

We will see what happens. What the hell is Morehouse suppose to say in that situation? Just a few weeks ago; Ron Hextall stated that Lecavalier and Berube (who have a bad relationship) needed to work things out. A week later, boom. Berube was fired.

I can tolerate Johnston, but Rutherford needs to GTFO. The worse current GM in the league, no doubt. Mind boggling that he was hired in the first place. Unacceptable that he provided Sid and Geno with crap and didn't even bother protecting them as well. Ruining the future. To the retirement home he goes!

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Not the point... Read again please. You and others are saying the Pens don't have dmen that can't complete a breakout pass and I call BS.


MJ employed a NJ Devil style game plan the past 2 months. That's what bad coaches do, they coach safe and hope. Hope isn't a very successful strategy.

If you and others want buy the D being responsible for our lack of offense, enjoy.

But remember this, and it's a fact. The Pens were 1-7 with Letang leading up to his injury and that 1 win came against a mess of an Edmonton team.

It's not bs. It's reality. Anyone who's actually been watching this team with a depleted blue line would be able to realize that. You're just choosing to be thick about it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't know about that. There were several questionable trades this season along with a questionable signing to Fleury. I know I am just a fan but the writing is on the wall. We have seen this kind of stuff before with the Canes. Ward has 1 great season and BAM loaded contract with NTC for a crazy amount of time. Don't even get me started on us trading away Andrew Ladd and Just Williams. Oh and there was the Jussi Jokinen fleecing. I could go on.

Shero created this mess, and the brass sat back and allowed it to happen. Blaming JR is simple minded. He may not be a solution, but the mgmt of this team brought him in to be a stop gap GM and to win the cup now.

It doesn't matter if it is JR or another GM, as long as the owners of this team have shortsighted views with no long term plans, the end results will be about the same.

 

[Coastal Kev]

It's not bs. It's reality. Anyone who's actually been watching this team with a depleted blue line would be able to realize that. You're just choosing to be thick about it.

I've made my opinion known. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[plaidchuck]

The team was trending downward even relatively healthy when the rest of the division started shaking the rust off, so the injuries just exacerbated the teams issues.

Biggest problem is there are issues from the top down in the org that can't be solved by just firing one guy or trading a player.

 

[ColePens]

The team was trending downward even relatively healthy when the rest of the division started shaking the rust off, so the injuries just exacerbated the teams issues.

Biggest problem is there are issues from the top down in the org that can't be solved by just firing one guy or trading a player.

The second part is 10000000000 percent correct. Go get all the names you want. Load up the roster. Same issues will happen.

People need to identify this is an entire organization issue that does need rebuilt the proper way. Rebuild within the means of the conversation. Not four years, but consistent decision making that backs up the identified issues.

So it's laughable when people think trades will be the difference maker.

 

[ColePens]

Shero created this mess, and the brass sat back and allowed it to happen. Blaming JR is simple minded. He may not be a solution, but the mgmt of this team brought him in to be a stop gap GM and to win the cup now.

It doesn't matter if it is JR or another GM, as long as the owners of this team have shortsighted views with no long term plans, the end results will be about the same.

Shero was a good GM, but he failed miserably when his back was against the wall because he was too loyal to those he shouldn't have been.

But man, you've been on fire lately with the pulse of the organization. Hopefully members of the board are reading Jiggys posts. Really good stuff.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Shero created this mess, and the brass sat back and allowed it to happen. Blaming JR is simple minded. He may not be a solution, but the mgmt of this team brought him in to be a stop gap GM and to win the cup now.

It doesn't matter if it is JR or another GM, as long as the owners of this team have shortsighted views with no long term plans, the end results will be about the same.

This is the biggest problem. No coach/GM is going to fix this.

We basically need to blow out a year (or maybe 2) to fix this. Heck we could blow out 2 months of a season and take REAL chances on our youth, but that's never going to happen!

 

[TNT87]

I'm not saying JR didn't add to problem..he most certainly did. But to blame everything on him is wrong, imo. Shero contributed more to the problem here than Rutherford.

But don't worry, Rutherford has more time to run this org into the ground now

Just like he did with Carolina. So glad they thought he was the right guy.

 

[IcedCapp]

I don't think anything is set in stone, despite what DK is reporting.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Shero was a good GM, but he failed miserably when his back was against the wall because he was too loyal to those he shouldn't have been.

But man, you've been on fire lately with the pulse of the organization. Hopefully members of the board are reading Jiggys posts. Really good stuff.

I wish I could say living and breathing this game since I was a kid has given me some great insight into what's wrong with this org, but the reality is its common sense.

For some inexplicable reason common sense isn't so common with this org. The owners said all of the right things, then the opposite happened.

Gets tiring.

 

[Asuna]

i don't think anything is set in stone, despite what dk is reporting.

lay down that hammer, icedcapp

 

[plaidchuck]

Honestly I think it's time to rebuild properly regardless of the time it takes. Roster wise it's time to build a team.realizing that malkin and Crosby wont single handedly win you a series anymore, whether it's due to their age or the state of the league. It's time to build a team supporting those two guys instead of assuming they'll carry the load regardless of what dead weight is on the team.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

People post lineups based more on what they would do than what they actually think would happen. While I mused about the future of Martin in that thread, I still believed he would return, as did most. Scuderi was the guy everybody earmarked for the door. Even then, it seemed a little too good to be true. His contract was awful. Why would anybody take him? Anybody assuming he had positive value given the term he still had remaining was engaging in a lot of wishful thinking.

Seems to me that people were assuming there was no way all 3 were going to be on the team come opening night. My reaction to Kulemin going elsewhere the following day (that we'd better get a great winger before opening night) show where my intentions stood, anyway.

Given your track record perhaps I should give you the benefit of the doubt, but I didn't see you placing any conditions on when it would have been a bad signing in the thread, so it's a little curious to see you blasting it now is all.

It was looked at as one piece of a moving puzzle - Kulemin signing and a defenseman moving were part of that puzzle. From the end of July 1st:

The writing's on the wall for Scuds after Botterill's comments concerning bringing in youth and the Ehrhoff signing. I don't believe for a second we deal Martin...our top 4 looks great right now.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=87491313#post87491313

Later that day:

Rutherford made some good value signings, but at the end of the day he signed a 4 mil defenseman and a bunch of depth forwards, which is exactly 0% different from what Shero did year-in and year-out.

To be a successful summer, he's either going to have to land Kulemin or a legit top 6 winger via trade. Let's see how he resolves this.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=87521303#post87521303

From July 2:

Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
It's crazy how many people think that trading Martin is a good idea.

He becomes one of our only chances to acquire a legit scoring wing now. I'm not saying I agree with it, but signing Ehrhoff and whiffing in FA on a winger brought us to this point. The org is talking about Downie playing in the top 6 after the "build around Sid and Geno" mantra has been fed to us since Shero's firing. Now instead of doing that, we're told that they'll "get over it".

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=87603733#post87603733

July 9:

Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post Would you rather have Scuds+Kule or Ehrhoff+top 6 winger. We can now dump Scuds or consider moving Martin in a package for a legit top line winger and not worry about throwing too many young D into the fire.

Ehrhoff is a much better player than Kulemin.

We were wanting to try to move Scuds either way.

The question is, if we're dangling Martin for a scoring winger, whether Martin + Kulemin would be better for us than Ehrhoff + top 6 winger.

It better be a helluva top 6 winger.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=87861283#post87861283

July 9:

Originally Posted by Pancakes
I don't understand how you can possibly think that when Ehrhoff is ten times the hockey player Kulemin is.

Do you think us adding PK Subban instead of Chris Stewart would make us a worse team? Because that's the type of thing you're saying here. The gap between Ehrhoff and Kulemin in quality is absolutely massive.

Ehrhoff isn't Subban, and Kulemin isn't Stewart. Ehrhoff's better than Kulemin in a vacuum, but games aren't played in vacuums. We have defense and we need scoring wingers.

Now we've signed Ehrhoff, which means cap-wise we're going to have to open up some cap space if we are going to get that winger, likely Martin or Sutter. We have to come out of whatever deal we make a net positive. Ehrhoff + new winger has to be at least as good as Kulemin + (Sutter/Martin/etc). Make sense?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=87858027#post87858027

The move being a positive for me was always contingent on moving out salary so we could address the top 6. Scuderi was the obvious target, and when push came to shove, Martin was thrown around too because I didn't want our stars playing with garbage again.

Injuries, adapting to a different system, playing a more structured defensive game, etc. also played a large part. Not to mention Kunitz's game completely falling off the cliff. But yeah, I'd have kept Neal around as well. Assuming Malkin and Perron were injured, it'll be interesting to see how they come together next year because there were flashes of potential in their short time together.

Neal and Malkin's chemistry was pretty rare. If Perron can be a regular 25 goal, 60 point guy for us I'll be happy with that move.

 

[plaidchuck]

I don't think anything is set in stone, despite what DK is reporting.

Agreed. Of course they weren't going to get into off season moves in the middle of the playoffs, regardless of the conclusion being a given.