Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | With Klingberg in the Mix Who Are Our 7D After the Deadline?

[Soundwave]

Yeah and the Oilers are way better than they were in 2021

Oh, so the Jets are simply better this year but the Oilers aren't any better than they were in 2021.

Since when is Oettinger a favorable path?
Laughable arguments by you to trash the Oilers but unsurprising.

So what is the plan exactly if we do end up in a series against Hellebuyck, Hill, Bob, etc. and any one of those guys is actually on their game? You trust Skinner to win the series then?

The Jets, like the Oilers, have a different coach this year, there's no guarantee they will fold the way they did in previous years, just the same way as the Oilers are better under Knob.

 

[McShogun99]

I can't see Saad coming here if his goal is to improve his stats and sign a good contract next season. He'd just be rotating in and out of the lineup in the bottom six.

 

[Soundwave]

I would rather spend the money on 2 up and coming players at $5-$6 mill than blow our load on Mikko.

Or maybe Crosby can demand a trade out of that shit show to Edmonton.

I wouldn't. Not with this management group. We're paying as is $7 million for Arvidsson and Jeff Skinner and neither is on pace to match a good season from Kailer Yamamoto.

I don't trust this front office, at least Rantanen you probably know you are getting a very good player alongside Drai and McDavid.

I can't see Saad coming here if his goal is to improve his stats and sign a good contract next season. He'd just be rotating in and out of the lineup in the bottom six.

I imagine his thought process is he'd get a shot with McDavid or Draisaitl, which Bowman would probably promise him (at least for a couple of games).

That said I can see him ending up in Colorado or Vegas instead.

 

[Dirk Dangler]

The Oilers walked thru LA in 5 games. Oilers would have swept both LA and Vancouver if it wasn't for Stuart Skinner. Skinner exhausted the Oilers not LA or Vancouver.

Both teams were banged up. It's showed on both side. I would have played Kane and Pickard more.

I can’t disagree with that there. I’ve made the same argument. The team could have been more fresh and healthy in the final if skinner didn’t give away games.

 

[Soundwave]

I can’t disagree with that there. I’ve made the same argument. The team could have been more fresh and healthy in the final if skinner didn’t give away games.

My bigger concern is I'm not seeing any growth in his game at all this year. He has all the same flaws as last year and ups and downs and hasn't improved his reflexes or movement in net at all. His save percentage has gone backwards.

His stats this year against top teams ... anyone want to post that? It's putrid, like .885 save percentage or something, his numbers are buoyed by games against bottom feeders and mediocre clubs.

If we face any goalie in the playoffs who is good and on their game, we are likely gonna have some problems if Skinner is supposed to be our answer.

I don't think we have the raw scoring fire power to just run n' gun over teams either, Skinner and Arvidsson have not worked out great and Kane from 2-3 years ago is probably gone. 6th overall in goals for is not bad, but it's not great for the Oilers either, this is the lowest scoring version of the Oilers in the last several years, even McDavid referenced this in his pre-game comments before last game, the offense hasn't been quite as explosive this year.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

If you can somehow replace Skinner at 3M with Saad at 1M I’d be all over it

 

[LTIR]

So what is the plan exactly if we do end up in a series against Hellebuyck, Hill, Bob, etc. and any one of those guys is actually on their game? You trust Skinner to win the series then?

The Jets, like the Oilers, have a different coach this year, there's no guarantee they will fold the way they did in previous years, just the same way as the Oilers are better under Knob.

Skinner winning or not winning a series has very little to do with the goalie on the other end ... it's the opposing forwards and Oilers defense that will get him past a team.

Hellybuck will be a McDrai problem not Skinner one

 

[Soundwave]

Skinner winning or not winning a series has very little to do with the goalie on the other end ... it's the opposing forwards and Oilers defense that will get him past a team.

Hellybuck will be a McDrai problem not Skinner one

Or Hill. Or Bob. You can't always expect two players to just beat another team's goalie if he's on his game, Skinner has to play on par. In the Vegas series for example he got badly outplayed by Adin Hill, not even close.

 

[LTIR]

I can’t disagree with that there. I’ve made the same argument. The team could have been more fresh and healthy in the final if skinner didn’t give away games.

There is not a single goalie available who would be a clear upgrade over Skinner or even Pickard.

 

[Soundwave]

There is not a single goalie available who would be a clear upgrade over Skinner or even Pickard.

That's not really true, Gibson very well could be a large upgrade, so could any number of guys. We have a top end defensive structure, it's not far fetched at all that a goalie with better reflexes as an example could go supernova behind the good defensive core.

It's like saying no one could have possibly been an upgrade over Conklin/Markkanen ... sure there were lots of guys that could've been it's not even like Roloson was ever a sexy Vezina candidate (he wasn't even having a good year in 05-06 when we acquired him and was only a .905 even with us in the regular season), but behind that d-corps he became a nightmare for other teams to deal with.

When have you have a really good defensive structure, trying different goalies is to your benefit, the more you try, the higher the likehood someone explodes, Vegas did this and hit pay dirt with Adin Hill and basically became unbeatable that playoffs from that point on.

 

[LTIR]

That's not really true, Gibson very well could be a large upgrade, so could any number of guys. We have a top end defensive structure, it's not far fetched at all that a goalie with better reflexes as an example could go supernova behind the good defensive core.

It's like saying no one could have possibly been an upgrade over Conklin/Markkanen ... sure there were lots of guys that could've been it's not even like Roloson was ever a Vezina candidate, but behind that d-corps he was a nightmare for other teams to deal with.

No guarantees that Gibson would be an upgrade over Skinner or even Pickard.
Maybe giving up more assets to get him below 4M per would be worth the risk.


Edit: Our top end defensive structure isn't very top end. We ofter tend to play like chickens with heads cut off.
Then we have guys like Bouchard who try to test out our goalies by giving up breakaway.

 

[Soundwave]

No guarantees that Gibson would be an upgrade over Skinner or even Pickard.
Maybe giving up more assets to get him below 4M per would be worth the risk.

There's no gauruntees of anything. You could lose in round 1 to Colorado as it is right now with Skinner getting lit up like a Christmas tree and then McDavid has second thoughts about whether or not he wants to commit the rest of his career here.

If you have good defensive structure but mediocre goaltending your best bet is to try multiple goalies as we've seen in the past guys go off in the playoffs behind a good defensive structure. Adin Hill did it for the Knights and won them a Cup, Roloson did it here in 2006 and should have won the Cup if not for freaking Marc Andre Bergeron being a dumb ass.

The chances of winning a Cup are higher with Gibson/Skinner than Skinner/Pickard IMO. If Gibson gets hot behind that D-Corps, he's capable of playing like a top 8-10 goalie and if that happens then everyone else is plainly f***ed. No more freebie wins against us.

 

[LTIR]

There's no gauruntees of anything. You could lose in round 1 to Colorado as it is right now with Skinner getting lit up like a Christmas tree and then McDavid has second thoughts about whether or not he wants to commit the rest of his career here.

If you have good defensive structure but mediocre goaltending your best bet is to try multiple goalies as we've seen in the past guys go off in the playoffs behind a good defensive structure. Adin Hill did it for the Knights and won them a Cup, Roloson did it here in 2006 and should have won the Cup if not for freaking Marc Andre Bergeron being a dumb ass.

The chances of winning a Cup are higher with Gibson/Skinner than Skinner/Pickard IMO. If Gibson gets hot behind that D-Corps, he's capable of playing like a top 8-10 goalie and if that happens then everyone else is plainly f***ed. No more freebie wins against us.

so Pickard, you are 9-1 in your last 10 starts but we are going to waive you to make room for Gibson making 6.5M x 3 while playing behind Dostal.

As if Gibson won't be giving up freebie goals against.

Skinner was considered for rookie of the year and might be the goalie for team canada at Olympics. He is more Dubnyk, Aiden Hill than Conklin or Markanen.

A goalie add might be nice but willing to give Pickard/Skinner another month here

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Acquiring Rantanen would break one of my general team building rules in that you never give elite money to a winger unless they are play drivers e.g. P. Kane, Panarin, Kaprizov or elite 2-way guys e.g. Marian Hossa or Mark Stone. Elite Snipers while valuable and important I don't think drive results to the same degree as the other two types or elevate those around them to the same extent.

Don't get me wrong he is appealing and I think him and Drai together would be broken, but I'd have a similar hard line in the sand to COL, in that $11.5-$12M range and even that price I think is only workable cause the cap seems poised to continue rising and I could see Podz or another $1-$2M forward completing that trio.

 

[K1984]

My bigger concern is I'm not seeing any growth in his game at all this year. He has all the same flaws as last year and ups and downs and hasn't improved his reflexes or movement in net at all. His save percentage has gone backwards.

His stats this year against top teams ... anyone want to post that? It's putrid, like .885 save percentage or something, his numbers are buoyed by games against bottom feeders and mediocre clubs.

If we face any goalie in the playoffs who is good and on their game, we are likely gonna have some problems if Skinner is supposed to be our answer.

I don't think we have the raw scoring fire power to just run n' gun over teams either, Skinner and Arvidsson have not worked out great and Kane from 2-3 years ago is probably gone. 6th overall in goals for is not bad, but it's not great for the Oilers either, this is the lowest scoring version of the Oilers in the last several years, even McDavid referenced this in his pre-game comments before last game, the offense hasn't been quite as explosive this year.

Skinner hasn't had a stretch of play the length or quality of the one he's been on since November in his career. To suggest there is no growth is simply inaccurate. It really isn't difficult to look at his book of work and see that he's been fine for 3/4ths of the season, and the 3 that he has been good in have been consecutively.

Not sure how you qualify "top" teams, but recently he's shut out the Kings and Bruins and been north of .920 in games against the Knights (twice), Lightning and Avalanche.

Outside a handful of games (like any goalie), he's been fine for three straight months.

 

[Spawn]

so Pickard, you are 9-1 in your last 10 starts but we are going to waive you to make room for Gibson making 6.5M x 3 while playing behind Dostal.

As if Gibson won't be giving up freebie goals against.

Skinner was considered for rookie of the year and might be the goalie for team canada at Olympics. He is more Dubnyk, Aiden Hill than Conklin or Markanen.

A goalie add might be nice but willing to give Pickard/Skinner another month here

Pickard would be a great backup for a legit starting goalie. But its clear the team doesn't trust him as anything more than a pure backup. He's started 3 games this season against teams that are in the playoffs. He's a guy who gives you passable goaltending against the dregs of the league when that's all you really need from him. The point of adding a different goalie than him is it gives you a different bullet in the chamber should Skinner flounder in the playoffs again.

I don't know that Gibson is that guy, his contract is likely prohibitive, but I think an upgrade on the backup position to someone who can maybe actually steal you some games if you need him too would be a massive move for the Oilers.

I've been calling for the Oilers to target Vejmelka all season. Utah finally looks to be falling out of it and he's a UFA at the end of the season. 16th in the league this season in sv% for goalies who have started more than 10 games. At 50% retained at the deadline his cap hit would be barely higher than Pickards.

 

[Spawn]

Skinner hasn't had a stretch of play the length or quality of the one he's been on since November in his career. To suggest there is no growth is simply inaccurate. It really isn't difficult to look at his book of work and see that he's been fine for 3/4ths of the season, and the 3 that he has been good in have been consecutively.

Not sure how you qualify "top" teams, but recently he's shut out the Kings and Bruins and been north of .920 in games against the Knights (twice), Lightning and Avalanche.

Outside a handful of games (like any goalie), he's been fine for three straight months.

This isn't remotely true. Skinner has had lost of nice long stretches in his career of solid play. Problem is he's too prone to collapses that don't end at one game.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

There's no gauruntees of anything. You could lose in round 1 to Colorado as it is right now with Skinner getting lit up like a Christmas tree and then McDavid has second thoughts about whether or not he wants to commit the rest of his career here.

If you have good defensive structure but mediocre goaltending your best bet is to try multiple goalies as we've seen in the past guys go off in the playoffs behind a good defensive structure. Adin Hill did it for the Knights and won them a Cup, Roloson did it here in 2006 and should have won the Cup if not for freaking Marc Andre Bergeron being a dumb ass.

The chances of winning a Cup are higher with Gibson/Skinner than Skinner/Pickard IMO. If Gibson gets hot behind that D-Corps, he's capable of playing like a top 8-10 goalie and if that happens then everyone else is plainly f***ed. No more freebie wins against us.

The key to shutting down COL specifically is rush defense and outside of that stifling their transition, presently I think you could make the argument despite general better defensive play we don't defend the rush exceedingly well and our forward foot speed to pressure d-men is on the low side.

This isn't the match-up I'm most worried about it, but if it was goaltending would not be at the top of my priority list. Also last I heard ANA is still asking for a big return on a pricey goalie who has only performed well in 1 of the last 6 seasons.

 

[K1984]

This isn't remotely true. Skinner has had lost of nice long stretches in his career of solid play. Problem is he's too prone to collapses that don't end at one game.

On that note, he's only had one "collapse" since picking it up in November that lasted more than 1 game. That has never been the case before over a time period that long. Even at that, he kind of Grant Fuhr'd the game in Colorado where he was rancid to start, then got it together the rest of the game to get the win.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I haven't spotted a stretch close to this before, so it must be remotely true. Outside his (shorter) run during the winning streak last year, he's generally played ~3 good games followed by ~3 bad games, then rinse and repeat over his whole career.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

so Pickard, you are 9-1 in your last 10 starts but we are going to waive you to make room for Gibson making 6.5M x 3 while playing behind Dostal.

As if Gibson won't be giving up freebie goals against.

Skinner was considered for rookie of the year and might be the goalie for team canada at Olympics. He is more Dubnyk, Aiden Hill than Conklin or Markanen.

A goalie add might be nice but willing to give Pickard/Skinner another month here

He has better numbers than dostal this year but I'm sure that argument point stopped mattering the moment dostal started to wilt playing behind anaheims defense.

 

[Fourier]

So what is the plan exactly if we do end up in a series against Hellebuyck, Hill, Bob, etc. and any one of those guys is actually on their game? You trust Skinner to win the series then?

The Jets, like the Oilers, have a different coach this year, there's no guarantee they will fold the way they did in previous years, just the same way as the Oilers are better under Knob.

I am not sure why you would lump Hill in with Hellebuyck. That's kind of like lumping Elias Lindholm in with Leon Draisaitl.

Skinner's big issue is consistency. Hill has only really been consistently good for one playoff season and as a backup in 22-23. This year he has been anything but. His last 10 games his sv% has been above .900 exactly 3 times. He has a .438 QS%. That means more than half of his games he has been below league average save %. Aside from 22-23 his highest QS% was .556 in 19-20. Skinner this year is at .545 and he has been over .600 each of the last two years. By comparison Hellebuyck this year has a .775 QS%.

Typically a QS% over ,.600 is seen to be good. Under .500 is considered poor.

So it is possible that Hill goes on a heater like he did in 22-23. But it is also possible that Skinner does as well. with both goalies you are rolling the dice. Unfortunately, that is also the case with too many goalies.

 

[Spawn]

On that note, he's only had one "collapse" since picking it up in November that lasted more than 1 game. That has never been the case before over a time period that long. Even at that, he kind of Grant Fuhr'd the game in Colorado where he was rancid to start, then got it together the rest of the game to get the win.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I haven't spotted a stretch close to this before, so it must be remotely true. Outside his (shorter) run during the winning streak last year, he's generally played ~3 good games followed by ~3 bad games, then rinse and repeat over his whole career.

Nov 1 to Jan 29 this season:
17-7-2 with a .909 sv%

Exact same stretch of Nov 1 to Jan 29 last season:
22-7 with a .917 sv%

Season before from Feb 1st to end of season:
16-4-2 with a .914 sv%

These stretches are not unusual for Skinner in his career. That's just an extra couple I had in my head, but we're only in year 3 of his career afterall.

 

[Jumptheshark]

He has better numbers than dostal this year but I'm sure that argument point stopped mattering the moment dostal started to wilt playing behind anaheims defense.

Dostal 851 shots save % of .908
Gibson 553 shots save % .914

Difference .006 save % with Dostal facing 300 more shots

Numbers are not that different

 

[belair]

We're getting Saad, too, aren't we?

 

[Spawn]

I am not sure why you would lump Hill in with Hellebuyck. That's kind of like lumping Elias Lindholm in with Leon Draisaitl.

Skinner's big issue is consistency. Hill has only really been consistently good for one playoff season and as a backup in 22-23. This year he has been anything but. His last 10 games his sv% has been above .900 exactly 3 times. He has a .438 QS%. That means more than half of his games he has been below league average save %. Aside from 22-23 his highest QS% was .556 in 19-20. Skinner this year is at .545 and he has been over .600 each of the last two years. By comparison Hellebuyck this year has a .775 QS%.

Typically a QS% over ,.600 is seen to be good. Under .500 is considered poor.

So it is possible that Hill goes on a heater like he did in 22-23. But it is also possible that Skinner does as well. with both goalies you are rolling the dice. Unfortunately, that is also the case with too many goalies.

I think Hill, his cup win, and his current level of play is a perfect example of why the Oilers should be looking for an upgrade for their backup spot. Goalies are voodoo. Hill was Vegas' 2nd or 3rd option that season after Broissoit and Thompson. But due to injuries he found himself in net and ran with it and was elite for a couple months and Vegas won a cup.

Using your analogy of Skinner or Hill being a roll of the dice. I don't get why Oiler fans are so opposed to the idea of adding another chance to roll should you get a 2 or 3 with Skinner again come playoff time.