Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Mr Positive]

We did put Kane on LTIR at the right time. But remember that even though you can use both LTIR space and accrued space, you can't use them on the same player. If Kane stays on LTIR, that's our big move, because our accrual can't be that big. What, maybe 1-2 million? We basically threw that space away when we decided to have extra skaters on the roster

Connor Murphy as our big move on defence? No man we can do better.

I'd be pretty stoked for that one. Andersson from Calgary remains the ultimate prize but could be unavailable

 

[iCanada]

We did put Kane on LTIR at the right time. But remember that even though you can use both LTIR space and accrued space, you can't use them on the same player. If Kane stays on LTIR, that's our big move, because our accrual can't be that big. What, maybe 1-2 million? We basically threw that space away when we decided to have extra skaters on the roster


I'd be pretty stoked for that one. Andersson from Calgary remains the ultimate prize but could be unavailable

No that still ends up being pretty big.

Because that 1.5 million is total cap for only a third of the season, making it more like 3.5 million AAV. And then you can further increase that up to 7 million AAV with cap retention for the players you acquire minus a third of the AAV of the players you send out.

Then you can get a another player for Kane's 5 million AAV from ltir plus a third of the cap of whatever you send out, and then further increase that to 10 million potentially with retention.

Cap space is less of an issue than assets to acquire rentals.

 

[McTonyBrar]

We did put Kane on LTIR at the right time. But remember that even though you can use both LTIR space and accrued space, you can't use them on the same player. If Kane stays on LTIR, that's our big move, because our accrual can't be that big. What, maybe 1-2 million? We basically threw that space away when we decided to have extra skaters on the roster


I'd be pretty stoked for that one. Andersson from Calgary remains the ultimate prize but could be unavailable

That turd said he hates Edmonton. Literally said it today ahaha

 

[Jarvi]

That turd said he hates Edmonton. Literally said it today ahaha

I don't think that means anything. We can offer him as good of a shot at the cup as anyone, and he is 3hrs up the road from whatever roots he has put down in Calgary. Then in 18 months he can leave as a cup winning RHD and get paid as such elsewhere if he truly hates Edmonton.

If we are willing to sell the farm, we can put together a package as enticing as any other teams. I really hope Bowman is at least exploring the option, rather than just assuming it's impossible like many of the posters here. If there is even a 1% chance at getting him, I want the team to pursue it until that turns to 0. He is the perfect partner for Nurse.

 

[foshizzle]

We did put Kane on LTIR at the right time. But remember that even though you can use both LTIR space and accrued space, you can't use them on the same player. If Kane stays on LTIR, that's our big move, because our accrual can't be that big. What, maybe 1-2 million? We basically threw that space away when we decided to have extra skaters on the roster


I'd be pretty stoked for that one. Andersson from Calgary remains the ultimate prize but could be unavailable

What you said doesn’t even make sense. Accrued cap is because you didn’t spend to the cap- it has nothing to do with a specific person. LTIR is on a player. There are two way to maximize cap space. Player goes onto LTIR prior to the season- you can exceed the cap by how much your LTIR is- or after the season starts- you can accrue cap for the space between spent and cap ceiling. If your player goes into LTIR you can accrue up to that amount. Edmonton was right at the cap with Kane on IR to start the season- then he went on LTIR.

 

[Mr Positive]

That turd said he hates Edmonton. Literally said it today ahaha

He didn't say he hates Edmonton. He said he hates the Oilers. Big difference. Imo it just shows he has fire.

But in an article I read he was talking about his NTC as well so with some assumption I'd guess we are on his no trade list (Canucks too)

 

[foshizzle]

Originated from capfriendly as we were navigating and ultimately not deciding to match offer sheets, then starting the year.

I trust them more than puckpedia.

I miss capfriendly. f*** the capitals.

Oilers hired one of the co-founders of capfriendly

 

[McTonyBrar]

Troll Spector saying Skinner in press box tomorrow

 

[foshizzle]

Bob Stauffer a few games ago was saying now the Oilers are only looking for a bottom pairing dman and a bottom forward. So that is pretty much 5.1 million, the Oilers ****ed up.

Bon Stauffer has been saying everything. He’s been saying a top 4 no one has expected for a long time. He literally is throwing everything at the wall.

 

[foshizzle]

No he didn't lol. I listen to his broadcasts daily. He never said anything like that D related. He's still saying we are aiming high. Why else would we want this cap space? The forward part I agree with but this was before knowing the Kane situation


Maybe he's drunk. Or just plain gone.

If yesterday’s game tells us anything- it’s Knob doesn’t trust the rest of the roster. He played Leon and McDavid 27 mins. If I’m a forward on the Oilers- I’m think the coach has zero trust in me to deliver results. Horrible coaching by Knob

 

[Mr Positive]

What you said doesn’t even make sense. Accrued cap is because you didn’t spend to the cap- it has nothing to do with a specific person. LTIR is on a player. There are two way to maximize cap space. Player goes onto LTIR prior to the season- you can exceed the cap by how much your LTIR is- or after the season starts- you can accrue cap for the space between spent and cap ceiling. If your player goes into LTIR you can accrue up to that amount. Edmonton was right at the cap with Kane on IR to start the season- then he went on LTIR.

It's my understanding that he has not been on LTIR and that the space was just set. We put him on LTIR to set his limit and then took him off to accrue space

The accrual vs LTIR thing is not connected to a player. They are totally separate sources of cap space. If you are using LTIR then by definition you are not allowed to accrue cap at all. Accruing cap means that if you have 1 million in cap space, you can gain cap space over the season and have like 5 million by the deadline. If you use LTIR space then by definition you have zero cap space. That's the the total BS that Vegas was allowed to get away with this past summer. They were allowed to pay Lehner not to play AND not have him on LTIR and that allowed them to accrue space for the deadline. I'm actually shocked that was allowed

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Yes I think Matheson is better than Murphy. Plus/minus doesn't say that much.

Besides powerplay and skating.

What does Matheson do better?

He wont be getting the gravy powerplay minutes here like he does

 

[FlameChampion]

In a perfect world the team trades for a RD Ekholm like player. I have no idea who that player is and its likely they aren’t available.

Chatgpt indicates Brando Carlo

 

[iCanada]

What you said doesn’t even make sense. Accrued cap is because you didn’t spend to the cap- it has nothing to do with a specific person. LTIR is on a player. There are two way to maximize cap space. Player goes onto LTIR prior to the season- you can exceed the cap by how much your LTIR is- or after the season starts- you can accrue cap for the space between spent and cap ceiling. If your player goes into LTIR you can accrue up to that amount. Edmonton was right at the cap with Kane on IR to start the season- then he went on LTIR.

Here's the thing though, we set the ltir pool that we can exceed the cap by, but we aren't using it because we're below the cap with our roster, so we still accrue cap space.

 

[Mr Positive]

Here's the thing though, we set the ltir pool that we can exceed the cap by, but we aren't using it because we're below the cap with our roster, so we still accrue cap space.

And another way of saying that we aren't using it is that Kane is currently not on LTIR

I wonder what we are going to do with our tiny accrued space. Maybe good for a 4C or a dice roll goalie

The LTIR space on Kane is our main source of space. That's the RD

 

[soothsayer]

In a perfect world the team trades for a RD Ekholm like player. I have no idea who that player is and its likely they aren’t available.

Chatgpt indicates Brando Carlo

Pulock.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

And another way of saying that we aren't using it is that Kane is currently not on LTIR

I wonder what we are going to do with our tiny accrued space. Maybe good for a 4C or a dice roll goalie

The LTIR space on Kane is our main source of space. That's the RD

You really don’t understand how accrual works hey lol

 

[Tobias Kahun]

And another way of saying that we aren't using it is that Kane is currently not on LTIR

I wonder what we are going to do with our tiny accrued space. Maybe good for a 4C or a dice roll goalie

The LTIR space on Kane is our main source of space. That's the RD

Kane is on LTIR, but we aren’t using it.

I just don’t see how they can’t use both the accrual and LTIR like puckpedia suggests

 

[Oilhawks]

Back to throw more twitter incendiaries and skedaddle.



To be fair, probably half of everyone else who has been in Rasmus' situation was a Canuck & a Flame at one point.

Meh, f*** Ratmouse. I don’t think I could cheer for him unless he scored the Cup winning goal in Oilers silks

“I hate you as much as you hate my team”

 

[Mr Positive]

You really don’t understand how accrual works hey lol

I am no expert, sure, but I've heard experts talk about it enough. I'm pretty sure I'm right on this. What part or parts of my understanding are wrong and how so? If your answer is something silly like "everything" then I know you're full of it.

Kane is on LTIR, but we aren’t using it.

I just don’t see how they can’t use both the accrual and LTIR like puckpedia suggests

I'm pretty sure you only use LTIR if you want to exceed the cap, which we aren't. And yes, we did put Kane on LTIR but I'm pretty sure that was just temporary so we could set his max LTIR value for later, if we wanted to exceed the cap and use his LTIR later.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Pulock.

That contract is hideous and immovable. And Lou doesn't retain.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I am no expert, sure, but I've heard experts talk about it enough. I'm pretty sure I'm right on this. What part or parts of my understanding are wrong and how so? If your answer is something silly like "everything" then I know you're full of it.
I'm pretty sure you only use LTIR if you want to exceed the cap, which we aren't. And yes, we did put Kane on LTIR but I'm pretty sure that was just temporary so we could set his max LTIR value for later, if we wanted to exceed the cap and use his LTIR later.

If you're over the cap with LTIR heading into the deadline, like we were with Klef and Mike Smith, trades at the deadline are dollar in, dollar out. So if we had 1m in cap space, we could only take on 1m in contracts at face-value.

Because we didn't over-extend into LTIR, we can use accrual. To over-simplify, lets say the trade deadline is exactly 3/4 into the season. You had 1m in cap space that you were accruing all year. Say you want a player who makes 4 million. He's already been paid 3m, so the only cap hit for this season that you're taking on, is his remaining 1 million. Where-as if you couldn't accrue - you still had to treat him as 4mill (so you;d have to move 3 mill in cap out, to make it work).

This is also before you even get into retention... Accrual is a huge benefit at the deadline for rentals. So if we want an 8m dollar player, he only has 2m left owing, then have a team eat 50%. You're all set.

THEN: After the deadline, accrual becomes a none issue, and we could LTIR kane until the playoffs, and add on his salary. (What Vegas kept doing with Stone).

Now Puck-Pedia is claiming we can only do one or the other, not both - but people seem to think they;re wrong.

 

[Mr Positive]

If you're over the cap with LTIR heading into the deadline, like we were with Klef and Mike Smith, trades at the deadline are dollar in, dollar out. So if we had 1m in cap space, we could only take on 1m in contracts at face-value.

Because we didn't over-extend into LTIR, we can use accrual. To over-simplify, lets say the trade deadline is exactly 3/4 into the season. You had 1m in cap space that you were accruing all year. Say you want a player who makes 4 million. He's already been paid 3m, so the only cap hit for this season that you're taking on, is his remaining 1 million. Where-as if you couldn't accrue - you still had to treat him as 4mill (so you;d have to move 3 mill in cap out, to make it work).

This is also before you even get into retention... Accrual is a huge benefit at the deadline for rentals. So if we want an 8m dollar player, he only has 2m left owing, then have a team eat 50%. You're all set.

THEN: After the deadline, accrual becomes a none issue, and we could LTIR kane until the playoffs, and add on his salary. (What Vegas kept doing with Stone).

Now Puck-Pedia is claiming we can only do one or the other, not both - but people seem to think they;re wrong.

I am confused a bit about that. Is that because they think we initiated Kane's LTIR too early or because they think you just can't do both?

 

[Jarvi]

Regardless of what they have in the works for the deadline, I want to see what we have brewing in Bako.

Bring Rodrigue up for some games, throw Savoie with Drai and Podz, give Philp some time at 3c to see what if we have a Ryan or even Henrique replacement there. If they just do the same shit they did with HolloBerg in giving them under 12 mins a night with crap linemates we won't be able to tell f*** all. I, and apparently management as well, did not think those two were as far along as they seem now. Why? Probably because we never put them in a position to succeed and instead expected them to outperform the vets we overpaid who could also not perform in those situations.

We don't need to finish 1st in the division. I know that seems to be a goal for some, and I understand the benefit. But Vegas has a good cushion, I don't think it's a real risk to fall out of it entirely, and it's a greater benefit overall to test run some of these guys to know for certain before we move one, or other assets, to fill a hole that we don't already have an internal solution for that hole.

Skinner-McD-Hyman
Podz-Drai-Savoie
Nuge-Philp-Arvidson
Janmark-Rico-Brown

This lineup will piss some guys off, but it gets us a good idea for what roles some may have to play come playoffs and how they will perform.

If Knob ends up "needing" McDraiMan, it still allows the 3rd and 4th lines to have some talent, cohesion and solid minutes. In return, all the top 6 guys are guys who's minutes can be dialed back if needed, while still giving them good opportunity to succeed for most of the game. No more paying 3m for 8 minutes a night of Jeff Skinner on the 4th line, thats so gd dumb. Trade him or give him a solid look where a player of his ilk belongs.

Nuge/Arvy are two great vets to insulate Philp, and imo 2 guys I'd like to see prove a bit more on their own without McDrai.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I am no expert, sure, but I've heard experts talk about it enough. I'm pretty sure I'm right on this. What part or parts of my understanding are wrong and how so? If your answer is something silly like "everything" then I know you're full of it.
I'm pretty sure you only use LTIR if you want to exceed the cap, which we aren't. And yes, we did put Kane on LTIR but I'm pretty sure that was just temporary so we could set his max LTIR value for later, if we wanted to exceed the cap and use his LTIR later.

I’m certainly no expert either but as far as I understand it, a contracts total value is split by the number of days on the season and every day that passes it reduces the cap hit on that contract, so in essence a 5M cap hit on day one isn’t a 5M cap hit at trade deadline day, it’s more like a 2M cap hit maybe, because 2/3 of rhe daily cap up to that point has been paid out and the cap hit attributed to the current teams cap.

Accruing cap space works kind of in a similar fashion but the opposite, every day you are under the cap you get to squirrel away that daily cap hit amount to use later, think of it like taking the change in your pocket at the end of the day and putting it in a jar and it gets added to the amount that you were under the cap to begin with.

The team has been accruing cap intermittently and when they’ve had to be in ltir they stop accruing but the space they’ve been accruing so far doesn’t go away, it’s just not growing, but when they come out of ltir they go back to accruing on the amount that was paused while they were in ltir.

Basically at the deadline when they’re out of time to accrue so it doesn’t matter anymore, they’ll take the 2M or so they have, which technically buys them a 5M player because 2/3 of his cap hit has already been paid so he’s like a 1.8M player and then if they wanted to they could spend the equivalent of another 5M contract or so equivalent to the remainder of Kane’s remaining cap hit and at that time they’ll put him on ltir until the end of the season.