Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

McShogun99

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Aug 30, 2009
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I've always been a fan of loading up depth. Stanley cup winning teams have guys on bottom pairings and 3rd lines come through in big ways.

I look at Tampa with Hedman/Sergachev/McDonagh all on the left side and you were basically happy to have any pair on the ice even if Cernak/Rutta/Savard were on the right side.

Pittsburgh had Phil Kessel feasting on the 3rd line.

It's hard to do regular season line combinations and then compare it to what teams look like for the playoffs. Ideally we will see Kane comr back from injury and push someone else down to the 3rd line or drive that 3rd line himself.

Good teams go into the trade deadline and address holes in the lineup. Great teams go into the deadline without holes and add depth.
We need to start getting Skinner some time with Mcdavid so we can move RNH to 3C when Kane is back and have the best depth of the Mcdavid era.

Skinner-Mcdavid-Hyman
Podz-Draisaitl-Arvidsson
Kane-RNH-Kapanen
Janmark-Rico-Brown
Ryan, Perry

Also add a depth, right shot center for insurance.
 

McDNicks17

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Jul 1, 2010
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We need to start getting Skinner some time with Mcdavid so we can move RNH to 3C when Kane is back and have the best depth of the Mcdavid era.

Skinner-Mcdavid-Hyman
Podz-Draisaitl-Arvidsson
Kane-RNH-Kapanen
Janmark-Rico-Brown
Ryan, Perry

Also add a depth, right shot center for insurance.
RNH at center on his own line is basically Derek Ryan though.
 
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Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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RNH at center on his own line is basically Derek Ryan though.
Over the last three years:

Nuge away from McDavid an Draisaitl;

GF/60 2.62 GA/60 2.53 GF% 50.85

playing against mostly top six opposition.

BY comparison Draisaitl away from Nuge and McDavid:

GF/60 2.86 GA/60 2.74 GF% 51.14

Derek Ryan away from Nuge, McDavid and Draisaitl:

GF/60 1.98 GA/60 2.35 GF% 45.69

playing against mostly 4th line opposition.

Nuge is not having a great year but I think your claim is a bit hyperbolic.
 

Whoshattenkirkshoes

Registered User
Aug 11, 2014
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We need to start getting Skinner some time with Mcdavid so we can move RNH to 3C when Kane is back and have the best depth of the Mcdavid era.

Skinner-Mcdavid-Hyman
Podz-Draisaitl-Arvidsson
Kane-RNH-Kapanen
Janmark-Rico-Brown
Ryan, Perry

Also add a depth, right shot center for insurance.
If Skinner was a player I'd say you are 100 percent on the money, but Skinner is done. He's cooked.

That's why I vote we trade for a top 6 forward.....
 

Whoshattenkirkshoes

Registered User
Aug 11, 2014
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Skinner and arvidsson will show their worth come playoff time. I guarantee it. Just watch. 🥹
Jeff Skinner is cooked. He's a top 6 guy, not a 4th line guy.

There is no spot for him in the top 6. With Arvidsson out he was 4th line, with Nuge out still 4th line.

Add into the mix Evander Kane coming back, good luck Jeff Skinner.
 
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Thomas Tatar

Registered User
Romanov would be a great target and a long term replacement for Ekholm but I think it’s highly unlikely the Isles move him. I’d also have some degree of concern about giving up a ton of assets for a guy from Moscow who’s live in New York for the last 3 years, you wonder how open that kinda guy would be to staying long term in Edmonton.
pfft. Edmonton is a massive upgrade on Moscow. Besides once we become the 51st state and climate change keeps doing its thing, Edmonton is going to be a tourist destination!

Weird that all the other Ducks goalies have been fine in that time but Gibson has stayed sucking
Weird? Or maybe you’re onto something….
 

McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
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Over the last three years:

Nuge away from McDavid an Draisaitl;

GF/60 2.62 GA/60 2.53 GF% 50.85

playing against mostly top six opposition.

BY comparison Draisaitl away from Nuge and McDavid:

GF/60 2.86 GA/60 2.74 GF% 51.14

Derek Ryan away from Nuge, McDavid and Draisaitl:

GF/60 1.98 GA/60 2.35 GF% 45.69

playing against mostly 4th line opposition.

Nuge is not having a great year but I think your claim is a bit hyperbolic.
Maybe it just feels worse than it is because of his individual production when he’s away from them.

Like looking at scoring on NatStatTrick shows he only had four non-McDavid or Hyman forwards assist on his goals(with a total of 4 assists) going back to the beginning of last season.

He’s also only had assists on five non-Hyman/McDrai goals(2 for Kane, 2 for Foegele and 1 for Kapanen) and those could be with those other guys on the ice too.

Only assisted on two goals with forwards that weren’t Hyman/McDrai.
 

GhostfaceWu

Shi Shaw
Feb 11, 2015
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Weird that all the other Ducks goalies have been fine in that time but Gibson has stayed sucking
Dostals last two season before this year .902 .901 lol at acting like his numbers before this year were that much better than Gibson's. Stolarz whose having a good year also put up .899 in his last season with Anaheim. I mean when you just blatantly ignore the actual numbers yes Gibson is the only one that sucked behind that team.
 
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Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
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Maybe it just feels worse than it is because of his individual production when he’s away from them.

Like looking at scoring on NatStatTrick shows he only had four non-McDavid or Hyman forwards assist on his goals(with a total of 4 assists) going back to the beginning of last season.

He’s also only had assists on five non-Hyman/McDrai goals(2 for Kane, 2 for Foegele and 1 for Kapanen) and those could be with those other guys on the ice too.

Only assisted on two goals with forwards that weren’t Hyman/McDrai.
He only played 471 minutes away from those two in that period and only 377 without one of Draisaitl, Hyman or McDavid on the ice. About 40 minutes of that were with Ryan which would have mostly been at the end of a kill. He had another 67 minutes with Henrique some of which would have also been at the end of a kill. (The two together had 2 GF and 0 against so). So you are looking at maybe 300 minutes centering his own line straight up. 4 goals in 300 minutes is roughly a 15 goal pace over a season. Not great but not all that unexpected given that when he is away from the those three. Over the last three years only 114 forwards averaged 15 pr more ES goals.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
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Dostals last two season before this year .902 .901 lol at acting like his numbers before this year were that much better than Gibson's. Stolarz whose having a good year also put up .899 in his last season with Anaheim. I mean when you just blatantly ignore the actual numbers yes Gibson is the only one that sucked behind that team.
The amount of damage Dallas Eakins did to the Oilers and it was only 1.5 years. Imagine playing for Dallas Eakins for 4 years lol
 

Yuke

Registered User
Jan 15, 2020
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Over the last three years:

Nuge away from McDavid an Draisaitl;

GF/60 2.62 GA/60 2.53 GF% 50.85

playing against mostly top six opposition.

BY comparison Draisaitl away from Nuge and McDavid:

GF/60 2.86 GA/60 2.74 GF% 51.14

Derek Ryan away from Nuge, McDavid and Draisaitl:

GF/60 1.98 GA/60 2.35 GF% 45.69

playing against mostly 4th line opposition.

Nuge is not having a great year but I think your claim is a bit hyperbolic.
I just dont get you guys using numbers for argument purposes without looking at all the different scenarios.
Nuge wouldn't be playing with 4th line wingers and usually not 3rd pairing Dmen.
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
48,877
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NYC
You can look at goaltending but Gibson isn’t the solution.

Neither is Savard at RD.

Those are probably the two worst options you could trade for.
That would be a nightmare. All this accrued cap space for a likely #6/#7 Dman on a good team at this point in his career and a goalie who has been replacement level for half a decade at a pricey cap hit for an extra 2 years.

Fortunately, that's just wild speculation.

Just take a gander at Nurse/Kulak. Kulak can skate and handle the puck and he is smart. If they could find a RHD clone at anywhere close to Kulak's cap hit they would be golden. Savard is not that guy. One has to believe that Coffey understands this. They let Vinny walk and went with Stecher and Emberson. So evidence suggests they do.
Agreed, I think Bowman/Jackson are much more interested in adding puckmovers than can skate rather than stay at home types. Ceci and Deshnarnais out, Emberson and Stecher in seem to point in that direction.
Matheson is likely the Montreal target, not Savard.
 
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Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
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That would be a nightmare. All this accrued cap space for a likely #6/#7 Dman on a good team at this point in his career and a goalie who has been replacement level for half a decade at a pricey cap hit for an extra 2 years.

Fortunately, that's just wild speculation.


Agreed, I think Bowman/Jackson are much more interested in adding puckmovers than can skate rather than stay at home types. Ceci and Deshnarnais out, Emberson and Stecher in seem to point in that direction.
Matheson is likely the Montreal target, not Savard.
That's also why I'm not huge on Romanov. I believe it is more important for Nurse that the D we get is the right type of Dman, rather than the best overall quality.

I like Savard. He would be a great target for a team who has a different partner than Nurse to get help for.

Imo the type should not just play the right side. They should shoot right as well. That's the issue we had with Kulak and Broberg there. Having those smart, smooth skating Dmen helped a ton, but when competition is most fierce, there are precious milliseconds lost with those left shot players to seal up the right boards.

Stecher actually is the right type. The only issue is that he isn't a top 4D. That's why Knoblauch always goes back to Kulak there, sharing the spot with Stecher.

The right shot version of Kulak is the target. We can look at D better than that, like Andersson maybe, but I just don't see it happening anymore. I also think it isn't needed. Get a right shot D, affordable with term if possible, and Nurse will play like a $9 million player and carry the pairing enough to win a cup.
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
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Waterloo Ontario
I just dont get you guys using numbers for argument purposes without looking at all the different scenarios.
Nuge wouldn't be playing with 4th line wingers and usually not 3rd pairing Dmen.
I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make. If it is that Ryan has weaker line mates than Nuge away from then yes this is a factor. But he is also going to be playing against 4th line opposition and bottom pairing defenders while when Nuge away from Leon and McDavid, and in this period mostly Hyman as well may have better wingers when he is playing as the #2C he is also often playing vs the oppositions top offensive players.

Lets take Hyman and Kane out as well. In 780 5 vs 5 minutes with Nuge on the ice but none of the four the Oilers scored at a rate of 2.92GF/60 and gave up 2.46 GF/60 for a GF% of 54.29%. So as the quality of his linemates go down the numbers get better as the quality of the opposition would also decrease. Plus when you look at the wingers Nuge would have played with over those three years excluding Hyman and Kane it is pretty much a mixture of the same guys Ryan would have. Over those three years Foegele was Ryan's most common linemate with over 618 minutes followed by Shore and McLeod.

I fully admit that there is context that can add to the numbers, but they are so different that little context is needed to make the point I intended.
 
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LTIR

Registered User
Nov 8, 2013
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Jeff Skinner is cooked. He's a top 6 guy, not a 4th line guy.

There is no spot for him in the top 6. With Arvidsson out he was 4th line, with Nuge out still 4th line.

Add into the mix Evander Kane coming back, good luck Jeff Skinner.
Well the idea is turn top 6 into top 9 by having offensive lines.

Podkolzin-Draisaitl-Kapanen would essentially be the 3rd line.
Arvidsson-Nuge-Kane getting same ES TOI.
Load up McDrai if losing a game otherwise just roll the 4 lines
 

Yuke

Registered User
Jan 15, 2020
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I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make. If it is that Ryan has weaker line mates than Nuge away from then yes this is a factor. But he is also going to be playing against 4th line opposition and bottom pairing defenders while when Nuge away from Leon and McDavid, and in this period mostly Hyman as well may have better wingers when he is playing as the #2C he is also often playing vs the oppositions top offensive players.

Lets take Hyman and Kane out as well. In 780 5 vs 5 minutes with Nuge on the ice but none of the four the Oilers scored at a rate of 2.92GF/60 and gave up 2.46 GF/60 for a GF% of 54.29%. So as the quality of his linemates go down the numbers get better as the quality of the opposition would also decrease. Plus when you look at the wingers Nuge would have played with over those three years excluding Hyman and Kane it is pretty much a mixture of the same guys Ryan would have. Over those three years Foegele was Ryan's most common linemate with over 618 minutes followed by Shore and McLeod.

I fully admit that there is context that can add to the numbers, but they are so different that little context is needed to make the point I intended.
First thing a home team does is try to put out your top line against the aways team 4th line. Quick changes also do this. Might not be a full line change but a top player gets on.
How about Nuge is a better skater, shooter and play maker. Ryan is a better faceoff guy and plays big for his size but isn't as strong as Nuge. Ryan would not be able to keep up with McD but plays more on the defensive side of the ice. Nuge's game is to score ( ++ 50% GF)and Ryan's game is to prevent getting scored on and try to stay above 50% GF. Two different objectives.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
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I wonder what the Oilers need to add to Jeff Skinner to get Mavrik Bourque

Edit: I think Dallas could take Skinner for free with Seguin being out.
 
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