Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Scrapin Ice]

It's obviously not a guarantee by any means but Toronto's issues are more mental than talent related. Even Ovi didn't get a Cup for more than a decade.

To truly build a champion you either need incredible luck in the lottery or a team that can draft/trade well. We are most definitely the former. If we had even halfway decent drafting... sigh.

Lets look at a team that tanked pretty hard for a few years. NYR have some great players. But their top management is 'Controlled'. They are in a melt down.
Making sweeping statement like mediocre sucks or you need a generational guy to win. Well that is just wrong. It is true though about 60 percent of the time. It helps alot. However Dallas, carolina, St. Louis, Florida, Los Angeles say Hi.

 

[brentashton]

AS you know I was one of his bigger backers. But anytime I've seen him this season he's not even recognizable as same player we had here. I dunno. He still had the sucker punch in that one game against Anaheim but he's not playing well. Looks slower now. Guy could probably go with anybody in the league but not same demand for that. you gotta be able to play the game.

Or maybe its a secret double handshake for Kostin to lay low and be a cheap TDL add. heh Stranger things have happened.


Seems strange, yes. But Kostin always had that bit of circus in him and sometimes perhaps having difficulty focusing on being a better more consistent player than just being able to deck somebody. As mentioned there are reports Kostin was doing more MMA and other fighter training in offseason. Seems odd he would do that. Maybe his bigger dream is taking out Jake Paul, jk, the world would cheer.

I was also a Kostin super booster when he came to the Oil.

I think his situation is not dissimilar to what we all experience in life. Some workplaces, social settings etc., just fit you like a glove and you have your jam in those settings. You excel, grow and develop and get better every step of the way (as opposed to situations that you feel like a square peg, dont fit in, and lose your lustre).

Kostin came in from St Louis and quickly became a bigger than life personality with teammates, fans and the media. He had swagger. The swagger reflected on the ice with his confidence in play.

Since moving on to DRW and now SJS he seems unable to reclaim that same mojo. As much as I like Klim I don’t think you can put the genie back in the bottle, coming back I doubt he would replicate the positivity his first stop had here. He made a massive mistake moving on for the short term gain. He has lost the longer term upside unfortunately.

I wish him well though.

 

[soothsayer]

Mediocre is always, always, always worse. Imagine a team like the Wild with a Crosby or Ovechkin or McDavid. There's no joy in being 9th place or a perennial pass to round 2.

*disagrees in Flames ownership.

 

[Canovin]

Buying out Skinner was puzzling to many because they had space to sign their players and keep Skinner. He isn’t worth $9M but that’s the deal they signed him to. Now they have a huge dead cap deficit to deal with.

But that’s Buffalo’s problem and now we have a Skinner problem. He’s not a fit with 97 or 29 because Skinner is a puck carrier. His next best place then is line 3 but he’s not a forechecker nor defensively responsible enough to be effective there with Henrique and Brown. So he hasn’t fit there either.

When Kane comes back he’s the logical one to be in the press box. Thats a lot of money to be sitting in the press box.

Move Drai to McDavid's line. I think we can run the 2nd line as Skinner-RNH-Arvid. Worst case, we ask him if he's willing to waive his NMC to go to another contender

 

[McDoused]

@belair

I keep seeing you push for sissons from Nashville but he only has 3 points this year. With 2 more years on his contact at 2.8M, I'm not sure he's worth giving up assets. I would think Nashville would rather waive him for nothing than retaining 50%.

Fwiw, I also don't get the idea of trading for Kostin. He has 4 points this year and someone would need to retain half. I think it's more realistic we go after him in free agency and even then he would only be in the lineup if an injury happened.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

@belair

I keep seeing you push for sissons from Nashville but he only has 3 points this year. With 2 more years on his contact at 2.8M, I'm not sure he's worth giving up assets. I would think Nashville would rather waive him for nothing than retaining 50%.

Fwiw, I also don't get the idea of trading for Kostin. He has 4 points this year and someone would need to retain half. I think it's more realistic we go after him in free agency and even then he would only be in the lineup if an injury happened.

I like Sissons as a player, but I will keep beating the McCarron drum

 

[McDoused]

I wonder if Toronto would be interested in Jeff Skinner. He's a local guy and would be an upgrade over Nic Robertson and Bobby McMann in the top 6. I could see them giving up a 5th or 6th round (to entice another team to retain 50%) and potentially add a 30 goal scorer for 1.5M.

I like Sissons as a player, but I will keep beating the McCarron drum

Sure he brings toughness as a 13F and on a much more manageable contract with another year left.

Not sure how much you give up for a guy with 4 points though. At that point I'm not sure Nashville trades him for a 5th round pick.

 

[belair]

@belair

I keep seeing you push for sissons from Nashville but he only has 3 points this year. With 2 more years on his contact at 2.8M, I'm not sure he's worth giving up assets. I would think Nashville would rather waive him for nothing than retaining 50%.

Fwiw, I also don't get the idea of trading for Kostin. He has 4 points this year and someone would need to retain half. I think it's more realistic we go after him in free agency and even then he would only be in the lineup if an injury happened.

Sissons is a guy who was frequently elevated on the Nashville roster in previous years. He was a borderline top six center who faced a fair amount of elite competition. He played with skill and produced as a result.

His drop off this year falls in line with the adds they've made. Those three points are an anomaly. He's been limited there, playing with lesser talent. In Edmonton he'd have one of Skinner or Kane on his LW and Perry on his right. He'd be your upgrade on Derek Ryan.

I see the potential of a buy-low checking center, which is one of the team's bigger needs.

 

[McDoused]

Sissons is a guy who was frequently elevated on the Nashville roster in previous years. He was a borderline top six center who faced a fair amount of elite competition. He played with skill and produced as a result.

His drop off this year falls in line with the adds they've made. Those four points are an anomaly. He's been limited there, playing with lesser talent. In Edmonton he'd have one of Skinner or Kane on his LW and Perry on his right. He'd be your upgrade on Derek Ryan.

I see the potential of a buy-low checking center, which is one of the team's bigger needs.

I like the idea of buying low. Sissons in past years has been a more productive player when played with good players.

Having said that, he wouod be going from 4th line in Nashville to 4th line in Edmonton. I would imagine their are a lot of 4Cs available on the market that wouldn't cost as much. The problem with Sissons is his cap hit and length.

Realistically Edmonton would need Nashville to retain 50% of that contract. It doesn't make sense for Nashville to use one of their retention slots and eat 1.4M this year and next, unless we make it worth their while. We would need to give up a big enough asset for them to want to do that. We aren't giving them a 2nd for sissons. Do we give up a 3rd? IMO that's still a little rich for a guy who produces at a 7 point pace. A 4th? They don't do it for a 5th, it doesn't make sense financially.

 

[McDrai]

I wonder if the rumours are true the oilers have made a hard pitch to get Matthieson out of Montreal?

The rumors are true but Montreal always wants a Kings ransom for their players. The ask was probably something outrageous like Draisaitl and a 1st.

 

[MessierII]

Toronto is extremely top end. Look at their success rate to round 2 lol.
However point taken you do need at least one game breaker. St. Louis has one now and maybe Holloway will develop into a second one.

Who is the blues game breaker? Last one they had was Tarasenko

 

[timekeep]

He's on pace for 20 goals, which is crazy for a player like him. I'd be curious what he returns, if Columbus even trades him.


I've argued that the Oilers can put together a package better than the one they moved for Ekholm. I think they empty the cupboards this trade deadline.

Who would you include that would make that package better? And our target wouldn't be Olivier

 

[Soundwave]

no he didn't
he took a playoff team that included Doug Weight, Bill Guerin, Ryan Smyth, Janne Niinimaa in 2000 and turned them into a Decade of Darkness mess just 8 short years later

We couldn't afford Weight and Guerin, it wasn't like Lowe didn't want to keep them.

Imagine how this team would function today if they couldn't retain players like Draisaitl.

 

[Soundwave]

We've won 16 of our last 21 games. Why are favors even needed right now when we're consistently winning?

Because it's not 2016 and just having a good regular season record isn't the goal anymore.

We spent a lot of money on players like Skinner and Arvidsson, the coach bears responsibility for making sure they are going, just burying them in the bottom 6 and sending them to offensive purgatory so their confidence can die doesn't do the team any favors in the long term.

If we want to win a Cup he needs to understand he can't just dump like $18 million worth of players in the bottom 6 (Arvy, Kane, Skinner, Henrique) because they don't play exactly how he wants.

He's being stubborn and playing favorites with certain players (RNH, Bouchhard have zero consequences for poor play) it's hurting the team and case in point, RNH has done f*** all for large portions of this year. Arvidsson could have been tried on McDavid's wing before, it took RNH going out of the lineup for him to be given a chance. And what happens? He immediately scores and then gets a point on the PP too.

This is not good coaching on the offensive side. Even if Holloway had been retained I don't think Knoblaugh would be properly utilizing him, here he'd probably be stuck on the 3rd or 4th line and have no where near the same production.

We already have dumb management, Knob may be a very good defensive systems coach (or is that mostly Coffey?), we can't afford to be stupid on the coaching side too.

 

[LTIR]

Because it's not 2016 and just having a good regular season record isn't the goal anymore.

We spent a lot of money on players like Skinner and Arvidsson, the coach bears responsibility for making sure they are going, just burying them in the bottom 6 and sending them to offensive purgatory so their confidence can die doesn't do the team any favors in the long term.

If we want to win a Cup he needs to understand he can't just dump like $18 million worth of players in the bottom 6 (Arvy, Kane, Skinner, Henrique) because they don't play exactly how he wants.

He's being stubborn and playing favorites with certain players (RNH, Bouchhard have zero consequences for poor play) it's hurting the team and case in point, RNH has done f*** all for large portions of this year. Arvidsson could have been tried on McDavid's wing before, it took RNH going out of the lineup for him to be given a chance. And what happens? He immediately scores and then gets a point on the PP too.

This is not good coaching on the offensive side. Even if Holloway had been retained I don't think Knoblaugh would be properly utilizing him, here he'd probably be stuck on the 3rd or 4th line and have no where near the same production.

We already have dumb management, Knob may be a very good defensive systems coach (or is that mostly Coffey?), we can't afford to be stupid on the coaching side too.

I don't agree with many things here.
So you don't want expensive guys buried in bottom 6 but are fine with RNH being there.
Guys like Henrique and Brown don't have to do anything in regular season as long as they are ready for playoffs. No matter how you make the lines we will have an expensive bottom 6.
Arvidsson may have scored points but he looked lost plenty of times including on the PP last game. He should certainly get more time on top line as should many others including Henrique and even Janmark. The group just needs to be ready for playoffs with more than 1 line clicking

 

[Canovin]

Mediocre is always, always, always worse. Imagine a team like the Wild with a Crosby or Ovechkin or McDavid. There's no joy in being 9th place or a perennial pass to round 2.

Wild have Kaprizov.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't agree with many things here.
So you don't want expensive guys buried in bottom 6 but are fine with RNH being there.
Guys like Henrique and Brown don't have to do anything in regular season as long as they are ready for playoffs. No matter how you make the lines we will have an expensive bottom 6.
Arvidsson may have scored points but he looked lost plenty of times including on the PP last game. He should certainly get more time on top line as should many others including Henrique and even Janmark. The group just needs to be ready for playoffs with more than 1 line clicking

You need to build up the confidence of new players here, RNH is not going to die if he's removed from McDavid for a stretch, RNH already knows he can produce in this system, he's had years of unlimited McPP time.

"Ready for the playoffs with more than 1 line clicking" doesn't magically just happen by itself. If Arvidsson and Skinner's confidence is in the shitter, you're not likely to have multiple lines clicking. That's the point.

You have to invest something into that.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Put me down for Alex Romanov.

His fancies look good, he has a manageable cap hit (and is RFA upon expiry), and I believe he can play both sides

 

[Captain Controversy]

Those discussing the power play..
The PP shouldn't change. Leave it as is. Just have Bouchard shoot more.
Nuge can be shuffled up and down the line up, It's not a big deal.
The oilers have the depth and ability to move guys up and down the line up. Arvi was fine with Mcdavid and hyman.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Move Drai to McDavid's line. I think we can run the 2nd line as Skinner-RNH-Arvid. Worst case, we ask him if he's willing to waive his NMC to go to another contender

No thanks, it's been clearly shown that the Oilers are a much more effective team when they have McDavid and Draisaitl running their own lines and RNH is not a line driver and never has been.

Skinner might be asking for a trade if he sees his destiny with this team is eating popcorn with Jim Matheson and Mark Spector and hearing about Stauffer's bantam career from back in 1979 a thousand times per game.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't disagree with some of what you say. Metro Ottawa is comparable with Edmonton in size. Commuting between Ottawa and Montreal in the summer is not so challenging. But the highways around Ottawa in the winter are way worse than the QE2 for weather.

I don't think a lot of people in the vicinity of Montreal went to many Sens games unless the Habs were in town. You are right that the Sens arena was definitely bigger. But I will strongly disagree with going to Ottawa games from the GTA. That's not a commute you make lightly especially in the winter. I'd venture that far more people would travel distances to see a game in Alberta than would do so in the Ottawa area. People from Saskatchewan use to travel to Oiler games. Certainly lots of people from Red Deer did as well. The Sens arena is located in an area that is already a challenge to get to if you live in Ottawa never mind if you live in Montreal or Toronto. I lived in Kingston and did not know anyone who went to Sens games. The OHL dominated Eastern Ontario. People were more than content to cheer on their local junior teams.

The Sens in the time period being discussed were an excellent team that drew people because of their success. Edmonton is far more faithful to the Oilers than the people in Ottawa are to the Sens. Ottawa is a bit of a strange place. It is dominated by the government. A significant portion of their residents have no real sense of a permanent connection to the city.

Beg to disagree on this one. We were talking circa late 90's when the Oilers were going broke and the sens had a new arena in 96 and were in a different category. I've done commuter rail between the cities lots of times and Via was dirt cheap on various passes. From Montreal 2hrs and a couple ciders in relaxing comfy seats and you're in Ottawa. Why would anybody drive. Same with Toronto to Ottawa just longer. Also travelled from Ottawa to Quebec City, Quebec City to montreal etc. At the time frame i'm talking Via commuting was pretty solid. I know it isn't reliable now.

As for Metro size the Ottawa region had about 150K more than Edmonton at the time we were discussing as I showed in the citations. Edmonton has now caught up. We weren't talking about now.

Just an aside but I even got to attend Le Colisee, The Montreal Forum, and Maple Leaf Gardens to watch games there. Was kind of a quest to do that. The old arenas are what I love. I don't even like the new ones. I was born for those old arenas. Hey, in one weekend we attended a Leafs game and a Habs game. Its not hard. That said when you're used to going across the country on rail which takes several days a few hours in commuting here and there is nothing. Trains are so enjoyable.

As for Edmonton Calgary there is zero commuter rail, busses are an awful option, and sections of mountain influenced Highway 2 can get quite interesting in winter. 2 areas that can be influenced just north of Calgary along foothills and in the stormtrack region around Red Deer that is influenced by weather traversing general David Thompson area and pass. The worst weather and storms I've ever been in in my life, summer or winter, are in those areas. Once had a snow/thunderstorm freak show weather pattern with hail and reported tornados all in one trip from Lake Louise back home to Edmonton via David Thompson. When storms hit through that region they are monsters. Basically every other winter theres a Highway 2 shitstorm with hundred accidents and hundred more in the ditch and even with people having snow tires. Be thankful if you haven't been in one. Of course its not as bad as mountain highways can get, Mt Robson area was my worst ever winter storm I went through, but highway 2 can get challenging conditions and especially with drifting snow across highway creating glare ice unseen conditions underneath. The highway is very susceptible to prevailing cross winds.

 

[RipsADrive]

At 50%, Seth Jones definitely has value, at least in GM's eyes. Big 2way RHD who's issues can be chalked up to being on a bad team. Trouba trade showed us GM's still value these guys.

Problem is a bunch of teams would be in on that guy, and for Jones it's not like he'd be waiving to play here for a year or two, it's like 4 more years. Plus, Chicago has no need for his cap. They may as well keep him until Bedards contract is up, they won't need the cash until then and maybe he improves as the team does or he is more easily moved with risen cap and only a couple years left.

True. It'd be expensive to convince the Hawks to make the deal but I think it would be worth it.

I guess a lot depends on Jones' mindset.

If he's fine spending the rest of his best years waiting for the Blackhawks to get good again, there's probably nothing to be done. If he wants to contend for the cup and wants out though, I'm sure the Hawks would move him and the NMC could actually work in the Oilers favour since we're seen as on the cusp and he already has a working relationship with Bowman.

May not have to outbid as many teams as you'd think.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No thanks, it's been clearly shown that the Oilers are a much more effective team when they have McDavid and Draisaitl running their own lines and RNH is not a line driver and never has been.

Skinner might be asking for a trade if he sees his destiny with this team is eating popcorn with Jim Matheson and Mark Spector and hearing about Stauffer's bantam career from back in 1979 a thousand times per game.

From the outset I questioned whether J Skinner really wanted to be part of a contending team and the effort that all involves. Words are cheap and easy. He hasn't shown the resolve at any point.

 

[soothsayer]

Who would you include that would make that package better? And our target wouldn't be Olivier

Start with the 1st and Akey, who just made team Canada and who I would argue is a better prospect than Reid Schafer was when he was traded. Remember, too, the Oilers sent Barrie back in the Ekholm trade at full cost.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I wonder if the rumours are true the oilers have made a hard pitch to get Matthieson out of Montreal?

lol do you mean what Stauffer hinted at earlier this season or something you heard now?