Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's the Beef?

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Foegele and McLeod were two of the worst players on the team last year when not on Drai's wing.

Not having those two farting around on the third line isn't why the whole the team is struggling.

And yet they seem to be doing just fine on other teams.

 

[McDNicks17]

And yet they seem to be doing just fine on other teams.

Players on the Oilers would be doing fine if they had a 40% shooting percentage too.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Players on the Oilers would be doing fine if they had a 40% shooting percentage too.

I'd still take it over the likes of Derek Ryan and Corey Perry.

It's not like this is the first time Oiler castoffs have found success elsewhere.

 

[McDNicks17]

I'd still take it over the likes of Derek Ryan and Corey Perry.

It's not like this is the first time Oiler castoffs have found success elsewhere.

Well obviously you'd take it lol.

Jeff Skinner would have 17 goals right now with McLeod's shooting percentage.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

McD and Drais play 42-45 mins at centre every game. Good luck turning them into more defensive centers when right now they are ready to fly the zone(as they should be) at a moments notice.

Again
Im not saying that they need to become Guy Carbonneau, but if they dont want to know what their side of the blueline looks like.......well, I guess there are personal achievements to cheer for.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Well obviously you'd take it lol.

Jeff Skinner would have 17 goals right now with McLeod's shooting percentage.

Point is basically everyone we let go in the offseason is doing well elsewhere. And again, not the first time. And the additions we made in the offseason have been middling at best and Travis Dermott at worst.

Why is that most players that leave the Oilers do better elsewhere? That's the question that needs to be asked.

 

[McDNicks17]

Point is basically everyone we let go in the offseason is doing well elsewhere. And again, not the first time. And the additions we made in the offseason have been middling at best and Travis Dermott at worst.

Why is that most players that leave the Oilers do better elsewhere? That's the question that needs to be asked.

The Sabres are shooting double the percentage with McLeod on the ice than the Oilers do with McDavid on the ice.

I'm not sure why you would bend over backward to get upset about something as obviously unsustainable as that.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The Sabres are shooting double the percentage with McLeod on the ice than the Oilers do with McDavid on the ice.

I'm not sure why you would bend over backward to get upset about something as obviously unsustainable as that.

I'm getting upset because the team that's supposed to have a high powered offense is languishing near the bottom of the league as most depth forwards (and some of the top 6) are bringing nothing to the table. Brett Kulak has more goals than the majority of the forwards for pete's sake. Is McLeod going to score 40 goals this season? No, of course not. But he still has a higher total than most of our bottom six put together. The fourth line (Ryan/Perry/Deck Chair) might not hit ten goals combined this year.

Holloway, Broberg, McLeod, and Foegele are all putting up decent numbers away from the Oilers. Skinner/Arvdisson/Emberson are doing next to nothing.

 

[Budz]

I agree we need a goalie. It’s easy to say, who is your actual target that fits in our cap situation

Coming in peace (Leafs fan).

Would Woll be of interest?

 

[McShogun99]

Mcleod had a lot of potential as a 3C but you make that trade all day when a team is offering Savoie.

Foegele was inconsistent and horrible defensively 5x5.

Both these players weren't trusted by the coaching staff near the end of close games.

 

[McDNicks17]

I'm getting upset because the team that's supposed to have a high powered offense is languishing near the bottom of the league as most depth forwards (and some of the top 6) are bringing nothing to the table. Brett Kulak has more goals than the majority of the forwards for pete's sake. Is McLeod going to score 40 goals this season? No, of course not. But he still has a higher total than most of our bottom six put together. The fourth line (Ryan/Perry/Deck Chair) might not hit ten goals combined this year.

Holloway, Broberg, McLeod, and Foegele are all putting up decent numbers away from the Oilers. Skinner/Arvdisson/Emberson are doing next to nothing.

Knob should tell the players to score on 40% of their shots.

I don't know why he hasn't thought of that yet.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Knob should tell the players to score on 40% of their shots.

I don't know why he hasn't thought of that yet.

Maybe he could try telling them to do more than try to make fancy plays and score on perimeter shots. 14 games into the season and we're averaging 2.36 goals a game, 30th in the league and behind teams that are actively trying to lose.

I could care less about sustainability when the results are what they are. And the results so far is that every single player brought in to boost this team has not done a good job as they currently sit outside a playoff spot on the strength of a cupcake schedule. This is a team supposed to be contending for the Stanley Cup and we're sitting behind the Flames in the standings? They haven't even beaten any good teams yet.

 

[bucks_oil]

I totally understand your post and agree with it. Trading now versus near the TDL is very difficult due to cap constraints, lack of availability on the trade market and probable overpayment to do so.

They could utilize Kane’s full LTIR now and then either move him (yes he has a limited NTC but those aren’t much of an obstacle for a motivated GM) or a combination of Skinner and Janmark. On the receiving end pay the price for double retention to lessen the cap hit.

As realistic a suggestion as I’ve got right now I suppose.

The way I look at it, the decision to trade Ceci and accrue ~$4-5M in space for "better-than-Ceci" was made in the summer even prior to the offer sheets.

That strategy was a sound one at the time and predicated on an assumption that if Broberg was signed at $1.7M and became our "better than Ceci", then we'd have that accrued cap space available to spend elsewhere (noting here of course how much was accrued would have been much less with Broberg and Holloway eating $3M... but Broberg in particular would have been an asset to trade if he wasn't yet ready for full time top-4). Essentially the strategy was: invest just a bit, hope, or trade and buy later. Kind of the best of all worlds, contingency plans built in.

Once the offer sheets came in, in a way it blew up the "invest just a bit" strategy and management was not willing to up the ante to $4.6M. We can see now that they (health aside) were probably wrong to pass on that bet, but I can completely understand the rationale... $4.6M in cap space is was a certainty vs Broberg carried some risk. So now we were forced into the decision to "buy later" rather than "invest and hope, with no contingency".

And here we are, with the exception of Emberson not surprising and our offense underperforming, everything else is still kinda ticking along as per the plan. But if we don't right our ship, we are going to be forced to spend early and that isn't good. I give some leeway here... I don't think anybody thought we'd be near dead-last in offense.

To the bolded... that's definitely a creative one, but one that sounds expensive and you end up depleting depth. Having a Kane or Skinner on the third line for the playoffs is a luxury we've sorta been banking on.

If these players get their act together, we may still be able to do that.

 

[Soundwave]

Point is basically everyone we let go in the offseason is doing well elsewhere. And again, not the first time. And the additions we made in the offseason have been middling at best and Travis Dermott at worst.

Why is that most players that leave the Oilers do better elsewhere? That's the question that needs to be asked.

Pressure it would seem.

Foegele/Holloway/McLeod had 4 goals this time last year here.

Skinner/Arvidsson/Podz have (take a guess!) exactly 4 goals this year, lol.

It's like it doesn't even matter who we bring in other than Hyman. This team can never have reliable secondary scoring, it's always just at best maybe some combo of players that works for a few games and then fizzles out and then the blender comes out, rinse, wash, repeat.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Pressure it would seem.

Foegele/Holloway/McLeod had 4 goals this time last year here.

Skinner/Arvidsson/Podz have (take a guess!) exactly 4 goals this year, lol.

It's like it doesn't even matter who we bring in other than Hyman.

The Tobias Reider effect. Very few players that come here from other organizations flourish. And more often than not, do well when they depart. They'll trade Skinner before firing Dustin Schwartz.

 

[McDNicks17]

Maybe he could try telling them to do more than try to make fancy plays and score on perimeter shots. 14 games into the season and we're averaging 2.36 goals a game, 30th in the league and behind teams that are actively trying to lose.

I could care less about sustainability when the results are what they are. And the results so far is that every single player brought in to boost this team has not done a good job as they currently sit outside a playoff spot on the strength of a cupcake schedule. This is a team supposed to be contending for the Stanley Cup and we're sitting behind the Flames in the standings? They haven't even beaten any good teams yet.

That's a pretty funny statement to me.

Ignoring context and nuance just so you can be upset sounds like a needlessly stressful life.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Coming in peace (Leafs fan).

Would Woll be of interest?

IMO he's too injury prone for us to rely on him if we were moving Skinner out to take on his contract.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That's a pretty funny statement to me.

Ignoring context and nuance just so you can be upset sounds like a needlessly stressful life.

You're right, I should be thrilled that a team that's supposed to be contending for a Stanley Cup isn't even in a playoff spot right now because they can't score for beans. You keep talking about sustainability... When does our awful sh% regress to the norm, exactly? Because the longer this goes on the less it feels like bad luck or an outlier.

 

[Soundwave]

The Tobias Reider effect. Very few players that come here from other organizations flourish. And more often than not, do well when they depart. They'll trade Skinner before firing Dustin Schwartz.

Seems like it especially with forward adds. Hyman and Patrick Maroon are like the two exceptions. Klim Kostin maybe another.

Coming in peace (Leafs fan).

Would Woll be of interest?

Depending on price, maybe. Last time we took a chance on one of your goalies though (Campbell) it was a disaster though, so I wonder how much of the success your goalies have is due to regular season systems play versus their actual talent.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Seems like it especially with forward adds. Hyman and Patrick Maroon are like the two exceptions.



Depending on price, maybe. Last time we took a chance on one of your goalies though (Campbell) it was a disaster though, so I wonder how much of the success your goalies have is due to regular season systems play versus their actual talent.

Even hyman looks like Oileritis is starting to catch up to him.

And why not fire the goalie coach before adding yet another do nothing goalie?

 

[Soundwave]

Even hyman looks like Oileritis is starting to catch up to him.

And why not fire the goalie coach before adding yet another do nothing goalie?

I mean it's not like I have a say in who is the goalie coach, lol. Why don't they just "promote" him out of the position as it's obvious he would have to be arrested to be fired otherwise.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I mean it's not like I have a say in who is the goalie coach, lol. Why don't they just "promote" him out of the position as it's obvious he would have to be arrested to be fired otherwise.

If he stays in the org then it'll only further the narrative that failure within the org gets promoted so long as you're part of "the club". Every goalie that Schwartz has had turns to mush. It's not a huge leap in logic. Plus it doesn't cost the club anything to fire him and replace him, and maybe look further than the WHL team in their backyard this time.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Again
Im not saying that they need to become Guy Carbonneau, but if they dont want to know what their side of the blueline looks like.......well, I guess there are personal achievements to cheer for.

You look but you do not see. You said we need more of a defensive structure/system did you not?
Well every reasonable defensive structure out there starts with your top two centers or have you not played in one? The guy high is usually a winger and if it is a center its someone who has wheels and defensive acumen and excellent stamina. Neither (and Drais!) of our top two guys would be considered 'good' at defense. Further why would you tax the energy of obviously two very high offense guys and exhaust them for the third? We need our bottom two lines built right. We lost a lot of speed and possession this past summer.
Losing Mcleod (always a winger never should have been tried at center) and Foegele (puck possession man) cost alot in paying the price so the our top two lines could free wheel. Of course their number suffered big time because of this. They were also a big part of the penalty kill. Wonder how thats doing now lol.
Then we lost Hollow who was expected to replace some of this. What a bad decision that was. Lets keep our cap flexible....for what?...to find a player a third as good as Hollow and suffer all season long without him?
Not including 2024 ( i know little to nothing about Sam O'Really) Hollow was the only halfway decent decision in our first round of the last five years.

 

[Soundwave]

If he stays in the org then it'll only further the narrative that failure within the org gets promoted so long as you're part of "the club". Every goalie that Schwartz has had turns to mush. It's not a huge leap in logic. Plus it doesn't cost the club anything to fire him and replace him, and maybe look further than the WHL team in their backyard this time.

I'm pretty sure everyone on this board wants him fired. It doesn't look like it will happen, the front office has been incompetent (largely) for the better part of 15 years here, it's not like that's anything new. Most people are just numb to it by and large.

As a front office I can maybe count on one hand the number of "really good moves" the team has made

- Ekholm trade
- Hyman signing
- Taking a flyer on Evander Kane for cheap in 2022
- Maroon trade
- Talbot trade in 2015 (was a favor from Slats)

Those 5 moves at least for some period of time really moved the needle.

I guess there are few other moderate ones you can point to that for the time (Sekera signing was good until injuries wrecked him).

 

[K1984]

Point is basically everyone we let go in the offseason is doing well elsewhere. And again, not the first time. And the additions we made in the offseason have been middling at best and Travis Dermott at worst.

Why is that most players that leave the Oilers do better elsewhere? That's the question that needs to be asked.

Because this roster can never get it together for the first 20 games of the season for reasons. Have no idea what they are, but they do this every single season, and I'm more surprised that this surprises people.

What happens every single year we start the season:

- Playing like complete dumbasses at home
- Have a horrific penalty kill
- Have the worst goaltending in the NHL
- Have a bottom 6 that mopes around the ice that does nothing
- Team defensive structure (rush and net front defence in particular) is abysmal
- Team is "snake bit" and don't "have any puck luck"
- Play an incredibly unphysical and low intensity game

The only newer features are the power play and McDavid in particular being complete ass, those have only crept in the last two seasons. Everything else has been a constant going back years, yet every time these things slowly get better and then are more or less fine by the new year.

I have no idea why this is. It's transcended many roster turnovers and many coaches. It just is what it is. It's a phenomenon that has no answer, but it's the truth. This nonsense pisses me off, but writing the obituary now is incredibly premature because we do this every single season.

The thought that Foegele, McLeod, Holloway and Broberg would be putting up equal numbers here is laughable to me. They would be right in the doldrums with the rest of the lineup, just like those exact players were every other year we were here and 80% of the roster didn't realize the season started until January. This issue is systemic and cultural. Those players can't transcend that.