Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread: "Wanted Dead or Alive: A Goalie, Defense & Depth (preferably alive)

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Paying Neal 5 million to sit in the press box hurts this team. If the decision is made NOT to buy out Neal, I'd rather have Keith. End point. LD is a huge question mark for the Oil this year with Klefbom's uncertainty. With Nurse playing 25 minutes a night, I'd be good with Keith playing 18. I wouldn't trade assets for Keith, but if we are carrying a boat anchor on the team, I'd rather Keith than Neal.

And for the record, this team's one and only playoff series win in the last decade plus came with Milan Lucic and his intangibles coming to this team and losing Taylor Hall... maybe, just maybe, there's something to this.

Again, I'm not delusional and thinking that Duncan Keith is going to be our saviour or that he is going to be the player he was 7 years ago, but given the choice between Keith and Neal...I go Keith.

I never said he was worse than Neal, I'd do a Neal for Keith 1 for 1 swap too under the condition that the team isn't planning to buy out Neal for whatever reason. Nothing else though, no prospect, no pick nothing. No Koskinen either, Koskinen is more valuable than Keith simply b/c it's a 1 year deal instead of 2 year deal.

Also the lone playoff series win also involved Cam Talbot playing like an absolute beast including 2 shutouts and a 27 save 28 shot game, whereas this year's playoff loss it was Hellebuyck playing like the absolute juggernaut saving 0.950 against us (Smith didn't play badly or anything but he wasn't 2017 Talbot or Hellebuyck levels of good). As for Lucic, pretty sure his leadership or character or whatever the f*** didn't stop the team from imploding mentally vs Anaheim.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Do you even listen to yourself when you talk? He's a PROVEN vet who KNOWS how to WIN it ALL. Just like Mike Smith, he is a great voice to have in the locker room and can be a mentor to the younger dmen like Broberg and Bouchard, which is huge for Keith as he knows how much mentorship means to a young defender (ie. Campbell and Timonen when signed in Chicago). He's also still a viable 3rd-4th Dman. He can take some load off Nurse having to be out there 25+ mins a game. But no, let's make false claims and think cap space is more important that leadership and mentorship.

If you're using leadership and mentorship to discuss a player then clearly you have no clue what you're actually watching on the ice and have no clue about the player's actual current level of skill.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

If you could swing a 1 for 1 deal with Neal and have them retain a little . Then he brings exp and winning to the dressing room. I’ll take that over Neal.

I agree with trading Neal for Keith and I wouldn't even need them to retain. But not because of experience or whatever the f***, it's because I view Neal as a more harmful negative asset than Keith in terms of play relative to cap hit.

 

[Beerfish]

Oh an addendum to this chat as well, cool how once again the narrative has changed re Neal and the Lucic deal. Now we are not buying Neal out at all are we? lol

 

[Klimando Kostani]

Can't believe I signed in this morning to see the entire debate currently is about bringing in Duncan Keith at over five million.

No...

 

[SDig14]

Can't believe I signed in this morning to see the entire debate currently is about bringing in Duncan Keith at over five million.

No...

Literally no one is advocating bringing him in at full cap hit. But at half price, I think he's a good fit with Bouchard on the 3rd pair.

He's been under water for a while now in Chicago because they're asking him to play 23 minutes a night against the other teams best players, and he is clearly nowhere near too pairing quality anymore.

If they take Neal, assuming we aren't buying him out, Chicago could buy out Neal as his buyout is cheaper. Or if they retain 50% and give him away for almost free, that's an option too.

No one us saying to give up value for him or pay his entire cap hit.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Re: "Adam" on the phone in show

Two things I found interesting that Wilkins and Brown completely ignored either on purpose or by accident which I would have dug a bit deeper on.

1) Right off the hop the caller says "I have some inside information". They didn't even slightly entertain this and ask how he got this.

2) He said Keith specifically wants to play for the Oilers. Not somewhere in Western Canada or somewhere with a team in the northwest part of the league. The Oilers. To have a guy of Keith's pedigree wanting to come to Edmonton is huge. Again neither host pressed him on that.

Don't forget Keith got an extended stay in Edmonton last summer. He may have really liked the city, despite being in a bubble and probably loved the arena. He probably sees McDavid as another Toews ("Captain Serious" type) and knows he can bring some much needed leadership to the team.

 

[McDrai]

My fantasy:

Neal+Jones for Keith

Edmonton trades 1st and Koskinen to Seattle on the condition that Seattle selects Keith in expansion draft.

Over 10 mil in salary freed up

 

[Klimando Kostani]

Literally no one is advocating bringing him in at full cap hit. But at half price, I think he's a good fit with Bouchard on the 3rd pair.

He's been under water for a while now in Chicago because they're asking him to play 23 minutes a night against the other teams best players, and he is clearly nowhere near too pairing quality anymore.

If they take Neal, assuming we aren't buying him out, Chicago could buy out Neal as his buyout is cheaper. Or if they retain 50% and give him away for almost free, that's an option too.

No one us saying to give up value for him or pay his entire cap hit.

Oh well, in that case.

There is no way anyone is taking Neal, that's insane. To take Keith with retained salary would cost us something.

Why not... You know... Just use that asset on an actual good player?

 

[Seachd]

 

[SDig14]

 

[PKSpecialist]

I never said he was worse than Neal, I'd do a Neal for Keith 1 for 1 swap too under the condition that the team isn't planning to buy out Neal for whatever reason. Nothing else though, no prospect, no pick nothing. No Koskinen either, Koskinen is more valuable than Keith simply b/c it's a 1 year deal instead of 2 year deal.

I think we are basically in agreement here. I'm not pining for Keith and don't believe he is an essential piece for this team.

I just hate the thought of a buyout for Neal or Koskinen, because we already have a pile of cap space this offseason to fill some holes. I'd rather bank on Koskinen being the goalie he was for the latter half of the year as a backup and suck up the 4.5 million for a year and gain more cap space next offseason than deferring the money over two years and needing a replacement for Koskinen that is going to cost the same with the buyout attached and likely bring no better results. (Koskinen buyout is 1.5 million...are you going to get a better goalie at 3 million or less than what he already is?) I'd rather keep Koskinen for one more year and have the extra 1.5 million next year to play with when Nurse, Puljujarvi and Bear need new contracts.

As far as Neal goes, he is done. I can't see him playing for this team anymore. But if we could deal him one for one or with a neutral asset like a 7th or a B level prospect with very little hope of becoming an impactful player, and get a guy like Keith, who despite his warts, actually brings something of value to the team in terms of mentorship and being a stopgap/fallback to the Klefbom situation, I think that's money better spent than on Neal.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

Like, I can see why you want Duncan Keith on LD.

- high chance we lose Klefbom
- medium chance we lose Jones in expansion Draft

Leaving

Nurse
Russell
Lagesson

Put Keith

Nurse
Keith
Russell
Lagesson

With Broberg and Samoroukov coming up.

You have a championship winning defencemen who is past his prime but could mentor our younger defencemen for 2 years.

Keyword: Mentor

He may lost a step but experience and Knowledge is still there and really haven't had a defencemen of Keith's caliber to instill that type of knowledge to our D-corp.

If Holland is thinking of trading for him, it is very likely for mentorship for his remaining contract.

And in case you haven't noticed the last couple post season results, but maybe having our younger defencemen learn a few playoff tips and tricks from Duncan Keith would be invaluable in the grand scheme of things

 

[SDig14]

Oh well, in that case.

There is no way anyone is taking Neal, that's insane. To take Keith with retained salary would cost us something.

Why not... You know... Just use that asset on an actual good player?

I think the idea is Chicago management may do Keith a favor getting him to a place he wants to be. A good will type thing for a guy who was a major contributor over a decade to 3 cup wins. I certainly wouldn't give up an asset good enough for a player better than him that's for sure.

I'm only doing it if we are getting him at $3M or less for basically free or a no name prospect.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

If you're using leadership and mentorship to discuss a player then clearly you have no clue what you're actually watching on the ice and have no clue about the player's actual current level of skill.

I'm not disregarding your position against acquiring Keith but in reading Chicago's fans take on it, most say he was overplayed with partners who are/were not very good while in a poor defensive system. So the staff was still playing him as a #1 which he isn't anymore but he is still an excellent 2nd pair dman. Right now that's what the Oilers need with Nurse having secured the #1. I don't know how many Chicago games you've watched...you may have watched a ton of them to gather your arguments against trading for him but with a lot of Hawks fans not wanting to see him go says something.

Keith is a gamble I'm willing to take if Chicago is willing to absorb some cap.

 

[Frank the Tank]

If the Hawks retain salary and/or take back a bad contract, then Keith would be a welcome addition. For years I've wanted a player who was truly elite at his peak and has won championships to mentor this young core. Not role players from championship teams like Ference, Lucic, Chiasson, etc... but a player that was the reason why a team won the Cup, and there's a strong argument that Duncan Keith should have more that 1 Conn Smythe trophy.

 

[Soli]

On the 31 Thoughts podcast this morning, Friedman saying Seattle or a Western based team. Brings up the son in Penticton. Says Vancouver unlikely. Says he heard about it because he thinks there is a chance it gets done very soon, believe there are teams working very hard at it. Seattle and another team. Chicago looking at Seth Jones or Dougie Hamilton and want to open up space to chase them.

- - -

Hmmm. I’m not interested in saving the Blackhawks any cap here. Cap neutral move or better for us or no dice.

 

[soothsayer]

On the 31 Thoughts podcast this morning, Friedman saying Seattle or a Western based team. Brings up the son in Penticton. Says Vancouver unlikely. Says he heard about it because he thinks there is a chance it gets done very soon, believe there are teams working very hard at it. Seattle and another team. Chicago looking at Seth Jones or Dougie Hamilton and want to open up space to chase them.

- - -

Hmmm. I’m not interested in saving the Blackhawks any cap here. Cap neutral move or better for us or no dice.

Maybe something like . . .

Keith - > Seattle
Future consideration - > Chicago

Keith 50% - > Edmonton
Koskinen + 2nd/3rd - > Seattle

 

[PKSpecialist]

My fantasy:

Neal+Jones for Keith

Edmonton trades 1st and Koskinen to Seattle on the condition that Seattle selects Keith in expansion draft.

Over 10 mil in salary freed up

What do we do with all that freed up salary tho? We need a goalie, a two LW's, a 3rd line C, and a couple bottom 6 forwards. If we acquire all of these pieces this offseason in free agency, we are basically screwing ourselves moving forward. Bear/Nurse/Puljujarvi need extensions next offseason. Freeing up too much cap now will lock us into long term contracts that will hinder our future. In your scenario we are also losing a first round pick. That's a valuable piece moving forward. Koskinen was a strong backup goalie last year outside of his first 10 games and that one really bad one at the end of the year. To have to pay a first to get rid of him is nuts to me. If we decide to trade that first, it better be to bring in an asset, not to get rid of one.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

I'm not disregarding your position against acquiring Keith but in reading Chicago's fans take on it, most say he was overplayed with partners who are/were not very good while in a poor defensive system. So the staff was still playing him as a #1 which he isn't anymore but he is still an excellent 2nd pair dman. Right now that's what the Oilers need with Nurse having secured the #1. I don't know how many Chicago games you've watched...you may have watched a ton of them to gather your arguments against trading for him but with a lot of Hawks fans not wanting to see him go says something.

Keith is a gamble I'm willing to take if Chicago is willing to absorb some cap.

I've actually only watched probs about 10 games of him the past 2 years. But I know for sure that's 10 more than the guy I'm replying to b/c I'm not talking about filth like leadership/experience and instead discussing actual play.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

To mitigate Keith's cap hit, would it be possible to trade Sekera's remaining 1.5m buyout cap hit?

Technically we would be paying 4m for Keith his last two years.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Maybe something like . . .

Keith - > Seattle
Future consideration - > Chicago

Keith 50% - > Edmonton
Koskinen + 2nd/3rd - > Seattle

Koskinen and Jones for Keith... It makes too much sense.

Or..

Bear, Jones, Koskinen for Keith and Strome

Resign Barrie and Koekoek

Nurse Barrie
Keith Larsson
Koekkoek Bouchard.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

I've actually only watched probs about 10 games of him the past 2 years. But I know for sure that's 10 more than the guy I'm replying to b/c I'm not talking about filth like leadership/experience and instead discussing actual play.

Clearly you have no clue. I wouldn't want that type of toxic attitude near
A group that calls for team play.

 

[Soli]

To mitigate Keith's cap hit, would it be possible to trade Sekera's remaining 1.5m buyout cap hit?

Not possible.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

Not possible.