Rumor: Rumors & Proposals thread: Vatanen gone as well

[Mcnotloilersfan]

There is a significantly large difference between acquiring a second line winger and acquiring a top 4 defenseman.



It's a good way to drive prices up. In other words, no thanks. See you later.



This team needs a makeover, an overhaul, an explosion, a Miley Cyrus concert.... Well, a lot for it to even be competitive. We need at least 2 top 4 defensemen if not more than that. It's not likely to happen without significant overpay.

To the first bolded point... yes... how does that argue what I'm saying? I'm saying nobody knew we were after Maroon until the trade happened. Which is why we might get a guy that is who we need and isn't a Hamonic or Barrie or Vatanen etc...


To your second point, people REALLY need to stop acting like we need to be the desperate team and that other teams hold all of the cards.\

How many teams have as much cap space as us?

How many teams have as much high end talent (McDavid, Nurse, Tkachuk) that will be expansion exempt as us?

How many teams out there really need a top 6 forward who can put up points. Other teams have what we need? Good, we have what they need to.

 

[Paralyzer]

Oh crap I forgot that pylon Russell is available. Don't do it Chiarelli!

Also the Stars are braindead if they let all three go for nothing and go for Yandle.

They were braindead when we traded them Horcoff for a 7th Rounder and Larsen (Which later turned into a 5th Rounder)

Edit: Where is Del Preston with that old GIF of MacT, KLowe and Howson dropping a boot full of dog poop on Jim Nill's porch. Classic Gif!

 

[belair]

Yea Sproul won it his draft+ 2years, and Deangelo won it his draft + 1 year. Out of the last 10 years those are literally the two worst guys on that list. We could use pretty well every other dman on that list since 2005-06. And the list of guys who've won in their draft years: Pronger, Doughty, Ekblad, Berard, Ellis. Thats a pretty damn good list.

If it's so easy to win and doesn't mean much why couldn't our defensive saviour Nurse win it after playing 2 extra years in the league?

Yeah and all it is is a list.

He played well against people mostly in his age group.

I've had the opportunity to see a lot of OHL games the past three years and only one defenseman has caught my eye as 'a man amongst boys'--Aaron Ekblad. The guys that are mentioned alongside Sergachev for that award don't hold a candle to how good he was at 17.

 

[Halibut]

There is no smoke and no fire.

Just people panicking before it's even time to start.

The season just ended.

You want to waste a pick on a kid that isn't ready and is not rated 4th by experts.

How does that solve the Oilers problems now?

It doesn't. They'll still have the same problem defense wise when the season starts.

Drafting a d-man at 4 is not wasting the pick. At most it's a slight reach and guess what every year some team drafting in the top 10 makes a pick that is a slight reach. Sometimes it works out sometimes not, it's no more a waste than picking whoever is rated at 4. It all comes down to how they develop. If we get a top pairing d-man out of it then we're laughing, if we get a top 4 d-man we're doing at least as well as we would be with any forward we draft.

Wingers are easily replaceable in free agency. We got Pouliot at just over 4 million as a 2nd line winger. Sekera as a 2nd pairing d-man went for $6.5. We were able to pick up Maroon for what was it a 4th round pick?

This talk isnt panicking about the defence. Chiarelli will probably improve our defence one way or another this summer. I still think we should be looking to the draft for a possible #1 because he wont be getting that.

 

[Raab]

The solution is not to draft for need.

Sergachev is a future solution not a now solution.

What happens when the Oil draft him and he's not ready?

The same thing that happened last season.

Its not drafting for need. Drafting one of Dubois or Tkachuk would be considered drafting for need. If you're drafting Sergachev at 4 its because you think he's a top pairing dman down the road, which is worth more then the two 2nd line left wingers available at 4.

 

[40oz]

Part of it stems from how Friedman writes and talks. There's a lot of wishy-washy "maybe" language from him and I think that's easier to misconstrue than, say, Bob McKenzie - who is very concise and clear.

Note: Having said that, I respect Elliot Friedman. I think, after McKenzie, he is the best in the business.

I don't think it's "wishy-washy" but I know people have a problem with understanding the difference between when people are giving his opinion and giving facts. Honestly I think the reason McKenzie has less of these issues is because he gives less. He gives so much less information than he used to because he knows it's dangerous. He doesn't even report rumors as much as he used to, more-so he's first to report deals and only if they're a certainty. He's seen his colleagues get torn apart for being wrong and he's taken a step back. The fact is McKenzie doesn't need to have the output he used to, he's on a whole new level now and damn near untouchable. The only thing that would make people turn on Bobby Mac is if he got something wrong.

Friedman doesnt have that option, he's practically the only legitimate reporter at SN and I'm sure Rogers has been putting pressure on cultivating their own "McKenzie" in Friedman.

 

[Mr Positive]

They were braindead when we traded them Horcoff for a 7th Rounder and Larsen (Which later turned into a 5th Rounder)

Edit: Where is Del Preston with that old GIF of MacT, KLowe and Howson dropping a boot full of dog poop on Jim Nill's porch. Classic Gif!

really? Horcoff was a useful piece for their depth, and meanwhile our team collapsed largely due to a lack of veterans. What did we win? Some numbers on a cap sheet, that gave us nothing?

 

[Paralyzer008]

really? Horcoff was a useful piece for their depth, and meanwhile our team collapsed largely due to a lack of veterans. What did we win? Some numbers on a cap sheet, that gave us nothing?

Actually we got Ference and Gordon.....and they ended up costing us more....

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

To the first bolded point... yes... how does that argue what I'm saying? I'm saying nobody knew we were after Maroon until the trade happened. Which is why we might get a guy that is who we need and isn't a Hamonic or Barrie or Vatanen etc...


To your second point, people REALLY need to stop acting like we need to be the desperate team and that other teams hold all of the cards.\

How many teams have as much cap space as us?

How many teams have as much high end talent (McDavid, Nurse, Tkachuk) that will be expansion exempt as us?

How many teams out there really need a top 6 forward who can put up points. Other teams have what we need? Good, we have what they need to.

It's good that we got Maroon. It helps slightly. Not as much as people would like.

I see your point about not being desperate but at the same time we're looking at 11 straight years without a sniff of the post-season. We finished 29th last year. If we finish in the bottom 5 again (which is more likely than people want to believe) then nobody should be safe.

For all the "high-end talent" the Oilers have they barely staved off the mighty Toronto Maple Leafs who were purposely trying to lose. Time to ditch that myth. McDavid and to a lesser extent Hall. That's it for high-end talent.

Defensemen >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forwards

Other than McDavid nothing we have is truly special that other teams can't offer. Hall sorta falls into that but Eberle? RNH? Yakupov? Nope.

Chiarelli has to bring in a lot of help on the back end for us to be competitive this year. Do you think Cam Talbot is the goalie to bring us to the playoffs? If he falters even a little we are ****ed six ways from Sunday.

 

[suddeninterest]

I'm all for acquiring a veteran Dman, we need one. However, drafting Sergachev and acquiring an established top 4 D are not mutually exclusive. We can have both. Nobody is saying "draft Sergachev, he's he immediate answer to our problems" because that's not true. Drafting Sergachev is the hope that he will be an answer to our biggest problem in a few years (a #1D) in contrast to drafting another hopefully 1st/2nd line left winger or centre which isn't a need at all on this team when we have Connor McDavid, Leon Draisatl, Taylor Hall, and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins.

 

[Stud Muffin]

Where's our Pretend Insiders when we need them.

 

[Raab]

Yeah and all it is is a list.

He played well against people mostly in his age group.

I've had the opportunity to see a lot of OHL games the past three years and only one defenseman has caught my eye as 'a man amongst boys'--Aaron Ekblad. The guys that are mentioned alongside Sergachev for that award don't hold a candle to how good he was at 17.

I'm not saying they do, but when you pick the best defenceman out of the OHL in their draft year theres a pretty good chance he's going to become a solid NHL contributor. I'm not saying that Tkachuk or Dubois are necessarily going to be bad players, just that I think if Sergachev hits he's an elite dman who doesn't get moved. If Tkachuk hits you have a player similar to Ryan Smyth who I love, but would trade for a top pairing guy. And Dubois who I'm not high on at all so won't even state a comparison, i'll just say he's not Jamie Benn.

 

[Shizuka]

Where's our Pretend Insiders when we need them.

Speedy Turtle has been MIA for a long time now -- I would have hoped he would pop in around this time.

 

[Aerchon]

And how long did OEL, Lindholm, Doughty, and Pietrangelo take? Not all of them take 5+ years. If you look at the accolades that Sergachev has received and the comparables there's no reason to think he's more then 2-3 years away from being a franchise dman if all goes well. As a worst case scenario he's your second pairing offensive dman in 3 years.

While your shooting for the moon you may as well go buy a Lotto ticket or two. Those can payout millions potentially.

He would be a consensus #1 if there were any legitimate signs of being a franchise D-man. And would be ranked much higher than he is if he even had a realistic chance of being a top 3 defender in as short as 2-3 years.

It's far more likely he doesn't see an nhl game till his third year.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Where's our Pretend Insiders when we need them.

I'll just make up a rumour for you.

Oilers deal 4th overall to Carolina for Haydn Fleury.

I'd give up.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

While your shooting for the moon you may as well go buy a Lotto ticket or two. Those can payout millions potentially.

He would be a consensus #1 if there were any legitimate signs of being a franchise D-man. And would be ranked much higher than he is if he even had a realistic chance of being a top 3 defender in as short as 2-3 years.

Drafting BPA has put the Oilers where they are. Time to draft for need.

If this team drafts another ****ing forward then it's just proof that nothing has really changed.

 

[Pointteen]

Is Goligoski's rights being traded something the Oilers really missed out on?

 

[Stud Muffin]

Ouch!

 

[lakai17]

Stars have Esa Lindell in their system also. Most likely a full timer with them next season.

 

[suddeninterest]

With the expansion draft upcoming I have a strong feeling that if Chia can't acquire a true top pairing or potential #1D further along in development, he's going to draft Sergachev (probably through a trade down) and then make another trade/signing for a second pairing Dman. Acquiring 2 top 4 D just makes us expose one of them in a year so I don't think he will "waste" the assets.

 

[belair]

I'm not saying they do, but when you pick the best defenceman out of the OHL in their draft year theres a pretty good chance he's going to become a solid NHL contributor. I'm not saying that Tkachuk or Dubois are necessarily going to be bad players, just that I think if Sergachev hits he's an elite dman who doesn't get moved. If Tkachuk hits you have a player similar to Ryan Smyth who I love, but would trade for a top pairing guy. And Dubois who I'm not high on at all so won't even state a comparison, i'll just say he's not Jamie Benn.

Of course there is. But that's all relative to how good that crop of defensemen is in that given year. There's nothing out there saying he's a franchise defenseman in waiting and there's nothing out there saying he's ahead of those two in pretty much anyone's rankings, which makes taking Sergachev at #4 a questionable move.

I won't be opposed to trading down and taking him or any of the defensemen for that matter. Personally I see us at #7 and if his teammate Logan Brown's not on board, I take Sergachev.

 

[Aerchon]

Drafting BPA has put the Oilers where they are. Time to draft for need.

If this team drafts another ****ing forward then it's just proof that nothing has really changed.

They have Klefbom, Nurse, Davidson, and Reinhart all better than Serg already and for the foreseeable future.

Drafting Serg does not fill a current need.

Drafting Serg is nothing more than a hope and a prayer for a distant future.

Edit: I would trade down to 8 with Buffalo to get someone like Bogosian (we would need to add something) AND then we can draft Serg as well.

That would be a decent move imo. I like Bogosian and remember when he was supposed to be the next great defenseman. Expectations have fallen dramatically but he is an acceptable top 4 RD.

 

[Stud Muffin]

I'll just make up a rumour for you.

Oilers deal 4th overall to Carolina for Haydn Fleury.

I'd give up.

"Fire Chiarelli VII"

 

[Frank the Tank]

Drafting BPA has put the Oilers where they are. Time to draft for need.

If this team drafts another ****ing forward then it's just proof that nothing has really changed.

To be clear, are you advocating that drafting Fleury over Draisaitl or Hanifin over McDavid would have been the better approach the past few drafts?

 

[belair]

Ouch!

That Carolina trade looks pretty good from Chicago's perspective now.