Rumor: Rumors & Proposals thread: Vatanen gone as well

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

uh, no. 'Failed' is far too strong a word. Plus, either of those two could have a big summer and earn a spot on the team out of camp. I get that things seem dire but there's no need to ask for the moon.

If we add just one major D this offseason, a key RHD addition, that would definitely put him in the 'passed' category. It wouldn't be a top marks grade, but definitely be a huge upgrade to our defense. We had a ton of injuries too, remember, so it's not like the group we have is as bad as the body of work last season indicates.

It is extremely rare for a team to be able to totally revlouationize their defense overnight. I'm sure that Chiarelli tried like hell to get a good top 4 RHD last summer but simply came up empty because none were available. I don't see a dream scenario unfolding, but if we make a 'next step' upgrade this summer we definitely could fight for a playoff spot

Counting on the Oilers D remaining healthy is a fools bet. No way Klefbom plays 82. Throwing Nurse to the wolves is not the answer either. Chiarelli must find a solution that pushes Klefbom, Nurse, and Davidson down the lineup.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I'm started to get worried they aren't getting 2 guys, and they'll just sign 1 guy and go with the same defense. We start seeing all these articles about how ready Nurse and Reinhart are and its the same old year after year.

If that one guy is the right guy, and IF Klefbom can stay healthy, and IF Davidson wasn't a mirage, it'll make a world of difference.

Man it's going to be a long summer.

 

[lakai17]

OEL-Stone
Goligoski-Murphy

That's a pretty dangerous defensive group, and you have to think the Coyotes are adding Strome to their lineup next season...

Sigh. Oh well. At least we're used to the Coyotes owning us.

Yeah they are looking good. Remember before last season all the analysts slept on them predicting a bottom finish.

They may also be trading Hanzal which will only return them value.

Great prospect pool also.

 

[Mr Positive]

You never draft for need if that player is not BPA.

That's just a dangerous game to play.

But who is the BPA? All we have is a bunch of opinions, and there is a massive margin for error in all these things. The way these scouts and pundits make their rankings involves a lot of philosophy about size, position, skill, etc.. These philosophies are constantly refined and debunked year to year. Very often, rankings become a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of thinking. History is not kind to draft rankings.

I would bet that if we could all see every team's individual draft rankings, it would be shocking how different they were.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I don't think they need two guys.....unless the 2nd one is cheap....in which case why bother?

 

[Birdperson]

If that one guy is the right guy, and IF Klefbom can stay healthy, and IF Davidson wasn't a mirage, it'll make a world of difference.

Man it's going to be a long summer.

I really like Demers but he's not enough. They can't depend on Nurse/Reinhart but with all these defensemen suddenly dropping out of play, I'm not convinced they get the 2 RHD they desperately need.

My fear is they're thinking "well, expansion is next summer so lets just acquire one stop-gap and then see what's out there next off season. We'll have Darnell developing and Griff will be more experienced, what's one more year?".

Right now all they have is

Klefbom-
Sekera-
Davidson-Fayne

Failing to get 2 is just awful.

 

[BB88]

And if they want to win now they can sign better wingers then Tkachuk or Dubois will be next year. Have to think if a potential top pairing dman is there at 5 they take him. Their defence is alright but they could really use a guy on the left side who can anchor it.

I'm remembering watching a Benning interview after the trade was done and he pretty much said he feels that they are getting a top line forward with their 5th pick.

 

[Mr Positive]

Counting on the Oilers D remaining healthy is a fools bet. No way Klefbom plays 82. Throwing Nurse to the wolves is not the answer either. Chiarelli must find a solution that pushes Klefbom, Nurse, and Davidson down the lineup.

of course we couldn't count on all our D staying healthy all year. Klefbom could play a full season easily though. I don't think we can call him injury prone, and no, GP is not how you measure that. That number is inflated by his staph infection, which isn't an injury. But, we could have Klef missing time sure, just like any D could miss time. The main thing is the total across the whole team.

Here's sanity: we are not in fact cursed. We can be unlucky at times, but it's not stupid to expect an average-ish amount of injuries. Other teams aren't having a D overloaded with top 4 guys just for injury reserve. We shouldn't need that either. Guys like Nurse and Reinhart are also blue chip young prospects by standard. Lots of teams put them in the NHL and expect them to help win games, even playoff teams. We're allowed to do that too. I'm not saying it's ideal, but if your standard is nothing short of ideal, you're going to be disappointed no matter what happens. Nobody gets everything they want.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I really like Demers but he's not enough. They can't depend on Nurse/Reinhart but with all these defensemen suddenly dropping out of play, I'm not convinced they get the 2 RHD they desperately need.

My fear is they're thinking "well, expansion is next summer so lets just acquire one stop-gap and then see what's out there next off season. We'll have Darnell developing and Griff will be more experienced, what's one more year?".

Right now all they have is

Klefbom-
Sekera-
Davidson-Fayne

Failing to get 2 is just awful.

I still think we'll sign for one and trade for one.

What I'm not sure of is how we're going to manage to get the only half decent RHD available in free agency.

I mean good lord.

The top 5:

Demers
Schenn
Polak
Lovejoy
Gilbert.

That's right. Luke Goddamn Schenn is probably the 2nd or 3rd best RHD available in free agency.

 

[McWeber]

I don't think they need two guys.....unless the 2nd one is cheap....in which case why bother?

It really depends on who the guys in question are. If you get a #1 two way D that can do it all then yeah your good. I wouldn't be comfortable with just Hamonic or Demers because our PP would still be terrible. Just Barrie or Faulk or Subban or any other top unit RH power play D with a big shot is palatable. With the pieces we have a shutdown pairing is the lesser of my concerns, that was supposed to be the calling card of all of our lefties and almost all of them have experience on their off side (I see this argument for Brodin but hes still another lefty). Chia set the bar high at the end of the year, if he doesn't make a substantial change to the D I will be mighty salty considering what we will likely be giving up.

 

[Pointteen]

Tom Gilbert'a pretty good at putting up points, right? Can always sign him.

 

[McWeber]

I still think we'll sign for one and trade for one.

What I'm not sure of is how we're going to manage to get the only half decent RHD available in free agency.

I mean good lord.

The top 5:

Demers
Schenn
Polak
Lovejoy
Gilbert.

That's right. Luke Goddamn Schenn is probably the 2nd or 3rd best RHD available in free agency.

We should be shelling out a late pick for the rights to Demers. If we can know for sure if/where he could fit into our future it could give more flexibility at the draft.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Tom Gilbert'a pretty good at putting up points, right? Can always sign him.

Did you not see what happened when I suggested re-signing Gagner for cheap?

In all seriousness, no. Gilbert is done. Injuries killed him. He had 2 points last season.

I'd rather shoot the Canes a 5th rounder for Wisniewski's shattered husk.

 

[North]

Totally agreed. If anything drop back to 9 to 10 to ensure that Tkachuk/Dubois are gone by the time the Flames pick.

We can help ourselves and screw them at the same time.

Exactly. Trade back. Get another asset and make sure you don't gift Calgary a player that is going to be a nightmare to play against.

 

[Pointteen]

Did you not see what happened when I suggested re-signing Gagner for cheap?

In all seriousness, no. Gilbert is done. Injuries killed him. He had 2 points last season.

I'd rather shoot the Canes a 5th rounder for Wisniewski's shattered husk.

I was so beyond kidding. I should've used that face.

Gilbert was done before he left Edmonton.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

We should be shelling out a late pick for the rights to Demers. If we can know for sure if/where he could fit into our future it could give more flexibility at the draft.

I'd imagine Dallas is trying to figure out if they can re-sign him first - picking between him and Russell.

Which sounds insane, yes, but they did pay through the nose to get him, and Nill said recently Dallas would likely only sign one of Demers, Goligoski, and Russell.

They need to leave themselves enough room to back the Brinks truck up for Jamie Benn after next year.

 

[Raab]

I still think we'll sign for one and trade for one.

What I'm not sure of is how we're going to manage to get the only half decent RHD available in free agency.

I mean good lord.

The top 5:

Demers
Schenn
Polak
Lovejoy
Gilbert.

That's right. Luke Goddamn Schenn is probably the 2nd or 3rd best RHD available in free agency.

I'm telling you it's an R5 Lovejoy and Franson are Oilers come September.

 

[Pointteen]

I'd imagine Dallas is trying to figure out if they can re-sign him first - picking between him and Russell.

Which sounds insane, yes, but they did pay through the nose to get him, and Nill said recently Dallas would likely only sign one of Demers, Goligoski, and Russell.

It is too bad that Russell can't play up on the second pairing. He'd be a good expansion casualty.

 

[Birdperson]

I still think we'll sign for one and trade for one.

What I'm not sure of is how we're going to manage to get the only half decent RHD available in free agency.

I mean good lord.

The top 5:

Demers
Schenn
Polak
Lovejoy
Gilbert.

That's right. Luke Goddamn Schenn is probably the 2nd or 3rd best RHD available in free agency.

yeah, that's exactly the thing. Demers is basically the only top-4 RH defenseman available so that's already a top guy.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I'm telling you it's an R5 Lovejoy and Franson are Oilers come September.

Mind the pooled vomit to your left. No, your other left - ewww, and you were barefoot...

 

[belair]

I don't think they need two guys.....unless the 2nd one is cheap....in which case why bother?

We don't. Even if we do, we can only protect four a year from now which means trading for a one and signing Demers could ultimately cost us Griffin Reinhart a year from now, which is an abominable waste of assets.

Right now all they have is

Klefbom-
Sekera-
Davidson-Fayne

Failing to get 2 is just awful.

Mark Fayne can play second pairing minutes. He looked fine when he was called back up once he understood the system. And unless you rid us of his salary, a losing team having five defensemen making more than $3m is unacceptable.

I still think we'll sign for one and trade for one.

What I'm not sure of is how we're going to manage to get the only half decent RHD available in free agency.

I mean good lord.

The top 5:

Demers
Schenn
Polak
Lovejoy
Gilbert.

That's right. Luke Goddamn Schenn is probably the 2nd or 3rd best RHD available in free agency.

In all seriousness, sign Luke Schenn.

Give him 2x$2m and play him with Davidson on the bottom pairing.

Trade for our big defensive acquisition, but go get a guy for the Gryba spot. And unless Demers is willing to sign without a NTC, he can sign elsewhere. That isn't a guy you anchor yourself to.

 

[North]

But who is the BPA? All we have is a bunch of opinions, and there is a massive margin for error in all these things. The way these scouts and pundits make their rankings involves a lot of philosophy about size, position, skill, etc.. These philosophies are constantly refined and debunked year to year. Very often, rankings become a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of thinking. History is not kind to draft rankings.

I would bet that if we could all see every team's individual draft rankings, it would be shocking how different they were.

But I bet the top 4 is pretty close to set.

The BPA for the most part is usually Tkachuk on the experts lists and Dubois gets a mention sometimes.

I like Sergachev but if the Oilers select him they better have traded down and received another asset.

 

[Raab]

Did you not see what happened when I suggested re-signing Gagner for cheap?

In all seriousness, no. Gilbert is done. Injuries killed him. He had 2 points last season.

I'd rather shoot the Canes a 5th rounder for Wisniewski's shattered husk.

The wiz is worth more to Carolina the a pick. His actual salary I'd a lot less then his cap hit helping them reach the floor.

 

[Pointteen]

I'm telling you it's an R5 Lovejoy and Franson are Oilers come September.

Lovejoy is a cup winning man now. I'd give him the Toews contract.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

We don't. Even if we do, we can only protect four a year from now which means trading for a one and signing Demers could ultimately cost us Griffin Reinhart a year from now, which is an aboniminable waste of assets.



Mark Fayne can play second pairing minutes. He looked fine when he was called back up once he understood the system. And unless you rid us of his salary, a losing team having five defensemen making more than $3m is unacceptable.



In all seriousness, sign Luke Schenn.

Give him 2x$2m and play him with Davidson on the bottom pairing.

Trade for our big defensive acquisition, but go get a guy for the Gryba spot. And unless Demers is willoing to sign without a NTC, he can sign elsewhere. That isn't a guy you anchor yourself to.

I'm not at all sold that I'd prefer Schenn to Gryba...

Gryba's no Nurse when it comes to skating, but Schenn moves like he's Mr Burns with Kleenex boxes on his feet.