Rumor: Rumors & Proposals thread: Vatanen gone as well

[Aerchon]

How does the Gudbranson trade mean they won't pick a dman? Gudbranson isn't in the same mold as a Juolevi or Sergachev. And they could easily sign a couple guys in free agency to help out their team. I could see them taking a run at Boedker or Lucic and waiting until next year to take a forward.

Vancouver needs a top 6 offensive type player far more than defenseman right now. Only a matter of time until the twins are gone.

Dubois is an incredible talent at the number 5 spot if he falls to them like it looks like. Van will run to the podium to take him in thier current state. I imagine if Tkachuk is available it's similar. Heck it wouldn't surprise me to see them take Brown or Nylander over any of the defenseman. That's the general consensus of this draft.

Forwards > Defenseman in the top 7ish.

 

[McXLNC97]

How does the Gudbranson trade mean they won't pick a dman? Gudbranson isn't in the same mold as a Juolevi or Sergachev. And they could easily sign a couple guys in free agency to help out their team. I could see them taking a run at Boedker or Lucic and waiting until next year to take a forward.

They won't take a dman, because Francesco Aquillini is an impatient owner, thus why you ain't seeing a proper rebuild out of the Canucks. All he's worried about is the playoffs

 

[suddeninterest]

What is your plan to fix the d now?

Here's the thing, a number one d is Doughty, Weber, Karlsson. He is not that.

Sergachev may be a first pairing d or he may be a second pairing d.

Projecting him as a #1D is not something I'd put money on.

Trade for/sign 2nd pair or better of at all possible and keep drafting D until we get a #1. Weber and Karlsson weren't drafted as sure fire 1D but there they are. We're they projected as #1D? I'm gonna say no because they would have went higher than they did.

 

[belair]

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...most-never-trade-their-first-round-draft-pick

If you're interested, Matheson with a ton of nuggets here.

He claims the Oilers wanted Ristolainen and "probably pitched" Eberle at one point but the Sabres aren't doing it.

So he opts to protect eight skaters in the expansion draft in his article, but still only protects three defensemen? What a dummy.

• If the Oilers opt to protect eight skaters and one goalie in the expansion draft next June, here’s how it could look before any possible June trades are made (like Yakupov) with Connor McDavid and Darnell Nurse not having to be protected as two-year pros: Cam Talbot (G), Oscar Klefbom (D), Andrej Sekera (D), Brandon Davidson (D), Leon Draisaitl (F), Hall (F), Nugent-Hopkins (F), Patrick Maroon (F), Eberle (F). It could all be bollixed by deals or free-agent signings. They would probably have winger Benoit Pouliot ($4 mil salary) and D-man Mark Fayne ($3.5 mil) available for their salaries and maybe the versatile Mark Letestu.

 

[North]

Trade for/sign 2nd pair or better of at all possible and keep drafting D until we get a #1. Weber and Karlsson weren't drafted as sure fire 1D but there they are. We're they projected as #1D? I'm gonna say no because they would have went higher than they did.

So then trade down and get another asset.

 

[North]

What if you trade down and someone else snags your dman? The pain this year would be amplified because that team would be a divisional rival. At 4 you have your pick of either the best dman out of the OHL or best forward out of the OHL/QMJHL. I wouldn't move down unless it was a significant overpayment. You need to have the confidence to take the guy you think is best at that spot.

Nope.

You take the best player available. You don't play smartest guys in the room.

It's never worked out well for the Oilers in the past when they've done that.

 

[Mr Positive]

Nope.

You take the best player available. You don't play smartest guys in the room.

It's never worked out well for the Oilers in the past when they've done that.

when have they done that? If anything they shouldn't have taken the BPA Yakupov and taken Murray, who was the guy the scouts wanted.

I get the BPA argument, but drafting by need makes sense when the player fills a dire need. If you draft a player in a position you have a lot of depth in, that player is not in a position to succeed. That's why a guy like Nurse is a good bet. We will do everything in our power to support him to reach his max potential. Yak never had that.

In reality, there is no one single way to look at things. Drafting BPA vs need are two factors that both need to be taken into account at every selection you make.

 

[Raab]

Vancouver needs a top 6 offensive type player far more than defenseman right now. Only a matter of time until the twins are gone.

Dubois is an incredible talent at the number 5 spot if he falls to them like it looks like. Van will run to the podium to take him in thier current state. I imagine if Tkachuk is available it's similar. Heck it wouldn't surprise me to see them take Brown or Nylander over any of the defenseman. That's the general consensus of this draft.

Forwards > Defenseman in the top 7ish.

And if they want to win now they can sign better wingers then Tkachuk or Dubois will be next year. Have to think if a potential top pairing dman is there at 5 they take him. Their defence is alright but they could really use a guy on the left side who can anchor it.

 

[Halibut]

What is your plan to fix the d now?

Here's the thing, a number one d is Doughty, Weber, Karlsson. He is not that.

Sergachev may be a first pairing d or he may be a second pairing d.

Projecting him as a #1D is not something I'd put money on.

Who projected Weber or Karlsson to be a #1 D? Lots of teams had chances at both those guys and missed out on quite possibly the best player in each of their draft years. You cant say how any player taken turns out that includes Dubois or Tkachuk. I think the upside of possibly getting a #1 D easily out weighs the possibility of getting a decent winger.

Check out the draft the last several years at the forwards taken 3-7. These arent guys who immediately jump in and improve a team. Most of them are still struggling to be real impact players. It's no different than defenders and it's no surprise that teams who put an emphasis on drafting d early end up with a good defence. Look at Anaheim with Lindholm and Fowler early in the first. Look at Nashville with some good late round picks but a consistent emphasis on picking D early and often.

 

[suddeninterest]

So then trade down and get another asset.

Oh I agree, if Chia thinks he can get Serg at 7-9 there is no reason to not trade down. I wouldn't take him straight up at 4 if I know I can get him at 7, that's bad asset management. I think we WILL draft Sergachev, but it won't be at #4.

If Ari signs Goligoski I think it opens a trade down with them because they would rather a forward they can insert on an ELC at that point instead of a D. If you're really feeling brave in this scenario you can trade to 9 with Montreal because I think Buf will take Juolevi based on his nationality and floor.

Matthews
Laine
Pulj
Dubois (Montreal)
Tkachuk
Brown
Nylander/Jost/Keller (Ari)
Juolevi
Sergachev (Oil)

 

[Mr Positive]

Cheveldayoff had interesting comments about Trouba. He did say that he was not looking to trade him, and that he anticipated a compromise by both sides in negotiations. However, he also said that they are entering a time when anything can happen. I don't think he's against trading Trouba outright, but if he were trading him it would probably be a late summer/ early autumn type of thing like the Boychuck trade. But who knows? Maybe we can make a big offer that the Jets will like.

Odds are that he remains a Jet, but it's a situation to keep an eye on.

 

[North]

Who projected Weber or Karlsson to be a #1 D? Lots of teams had chances at both those guys and missed out on quite possibly the best player in each of their draft years. You cant say how any player taken turns out that includes Dubois or Tkachuk. I think the upside of possibly getting a #1 D easily out weighs the possibility of getting a decent winger.

Check out the draft the last several years at the forwards taken 3-7. These arent guys who immediately jump in and improve a team. Most of them are still struggling to be real impact players. It's no different than defenders and it's no surprise that teams who put an emphasis on drafting d early end up with a good defence. Look at Anaheim with Lindholm and Fowler early in the first. Look at Nashville with some good late round picks but a consistent emphasis on picking D early and often.

Tkachuk and Dubois aren't expected to either, but there is a reason they are ranked where they are.

People want an elusive 1D but there is no guarantee Sergachev is that. Why would you pick him when he isn't the BPA?

The Oilers should be focused on getting established D now and not relying on hope.

 

[lakai17]

If Juolevi was a Right shot is take him 4th OA. The kid is a great passer and will be a good PP defenceman.

Yeah it is crazy how everyone has been sleeping on Juolevi.

Juolevi is on the same level as Sergachev for myself.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

At some point the Oilers need at least 2 top 4 defensemen. If Nurse and Reinhart are on the team next year Chiarelli has failed.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

This is full of good tidbits, Must Read for any oiler fan.

Matty saying the Oilers should hand Tkachuk/Dubois to the Flames? Drop back to 6th for a lousy 2nd rounder? Ewwww.... Matt Tkachuk is EXACTLY what that forward group needs. Like, to a T.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Matthieson must have tossed a cramp and forgotten the oilers traded their first for Roloson

 

[North]

when have they done that? If anything they shouldn't have taken the BPA Yakupov and taken Murray, who was the guy the scouts wanted.

I get the BPA argument, but drafting by need makes sense when the player fills a dire need. If you draft a player in a position you have a lot of depth in, that player is not in a position to succeed. That's why a guy like Nurse is a good bet. We will do everything in our power to support him to reach his max potential. Yak never had that.

In reality, there is no one single way to look at things. Drafting BPA vs need are two factors that both need to be taken into account at every selection you make.

You never draft for need if that player is not BPA.

That's just a dangerous game to play.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

At some point the Oilers need at least 2 top 4 defensemen. If Nurse and Reinhart are on the team next year Chiarelli has failed.

If we get a top pairing guy I am OK with a 2nd pair of Davidson-Sekera on paper for next year. Round out the 3rd pairing with Oesterle/Gryba/Fayne/Reinhart.

Chiarelli must play a hell of a game of chess, though. Not a peep from him in weeks...

 

[North]

Matty saying the Oilers should hand Tkachuk/Dubois to the Flames? Drop back to 6th for a lousy 2nd rounder? Ewwww.... Matt Tkachuk is EXACTLY what that forward group needs. Like, to a T.

That's exactly one of the reasons I would never advocate picking Sergachev at 4.

One, he isn't BPA.

Two, you gift the Flames a player that is going to be a ***** to play against and is exactly what they need.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

OEL-Stone
Goligoski-Murphy

That's a pretty dangerous defensive group, and you have to think the Coyotes are adding Strome to their lineup next season...

Sigh. Oh well. At least we're used to the Coyotes owning us.

 

[Mr Positive]

At some point the Oilers need at least 2 top 4 defensemen. If Nurse and Reinhart are on the team next year Chiarelli has failed.

uh, no. 'Failed' is far too strong a word. Plus, either of those two could have a big summer and earn a spot on the team out of camp. I get that things seem dire but there's no need to ask for the moon.

If we add just one major D this offseason, a key RHD addition, that would definitely put him in the 'passed' category. It wouldn't be a top marks grade, but definitely be a huge upgrade to our defense. We had a ton of injuries too, remember, so it's not like the group we have is as bad as the body of work last season indicates.

It is extremely rare for a team to be able to totally revlouationize their defense overnight. I'm sure that Chiarelli tried like hell to get a good top 4 RHD last summer but simply came up empty because none were available. I don't see a dream scenario unfolding, but if we make a 'next step' upgrade this summer we definitely could fight for a playoff spot

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That's exactly one of the reasons I would never advocate picking Sergachev at 4.

One, he isn't BPA.

Two, you gift the Flames a player that is going to be a ***** to play against and is exactly what they need.

Totally agreed. If anything drop back to 9 to 10 to ensure that Tkachuk/Dubois are gone by the time the Flames pick.

We can help ourselves and screw them at the same time.

 

[Birdperson]

I'm started to get worried they aren't getting 2 guys, and they'll just sign 1 guy and go with the same defense. We start seeing all these articles about how ready Nurse and Reinhart are and its the same old year after year.

 

[Jet Walters]

Cheveldayoff had interesting comments about Trouba. He did say that he was not looking to trade him, and that he anticipated a compromise by both sides in negotiations. However, he also said that they are entering a time when anything can happen. I don't think he's against trading Trouba outright, but if he were trading him it would probably be a late summer/ early autumn type of thing like the Boychuck trade. But who knows? Maybe we can make a big offer that the Jets will like.

Odds are that he remains a Jet, but it's a situation to keep an eye on.

Signing Big Buff really opened the door for a possible Trouba trade. Problem is you'll have to pay him what he wants if you make that deal.

I had the thought today that the Coyotes would love to acquire Trouba to pair with OEL and the Jets might like the 7th pick in the draft to take their pick of the three top LHD.

Trouba for Hanzal and 7? Maybe the Jets add something.

 

[Jumptheshark]

• The Florida Panthers, now heavily into analytics, fired almost all of their pro and amateur scouts, including Kent Nilsson. They did keep Peter Mahovlich as a pro scout.

from matty notes

this is interesting cause they actually drafted some gems late--

Hopefully the Panthers realize that they need to balance Analytics with what actually happens on the ice on not just on the score card