Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Bryanbryoil]

Any reason why Holloway cant be our 4C?

Foegele-McLeod-Lavoie
Janmark-Holloway-Ryan

Experience? He has all of the physical tools.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Is Sutter gonna make the team?

 

[VainGretzky]

Is Sutter gonna make the team?

I doubt it

 

[walktheboulavard]

Any reason why Holloway cant be our 4C?

Foegele-McLeod-Lavoie
Janmark-Holloway-Ryan

I think his ability would be wasted on 4th line. The hope is this year will be his coming out party. I am not sure he has the finesse/puck skills to be top top 6 main stay, but definitely spot duty from time to time and top 9.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Experience? He has all of the physical tools.

I wouldn't be certain of that. Holloway has been injured a lot since being drafted. That's a natural part of the progression for a player who's known for tight checking and going to the dirty areas. I don't think Holloway will be cut out for the center position this year. Maybe in the future. It's a difficult position to master at the NHL level. Gaining experience is called for.

It wouldn't be a bad idea if Holloway started the year with 20 games played at the center position in the AHL, and then playing the rest of the season as a winger in the NHL. Considering long term development Holloway might gain the most experience doing that. Then he could try center in the NHL full time the year after this upcoming season.

I don't want Bourgault in the NHL at all this season. The way he carries the puck to the net and skates with his head low, someone will knock his block off at the NHL level. I've seen players in the AHL attempt exactly that. The coaching staff must be aware of this and they are complicit if it happens.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Sutter hasn't played in two years. I'd give his chances at making the team as good as whats-his-nutz from last year that sucked and went to the KHL. Can't think of his name. Canuck player.

 

[samiam]

Jake Virtanen

 

[nexttothemoon]

Brandon Sutter from 3+ years ago would be a perfect fit for the team... eats defensive minutes for breakfast.

Interesting stat on him... at 5v5 he's taken 48 penalties in his career and drawn 154 penalties (and 62 penalties taken and 194 drawn in all situations)... that's a pretty impressive ratio and a useful player to have on the team when the key strength of the Oilers gameplay is their PP.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Did Max Comtois sign (or get a PTO) with Vegas... or was that just a rumour going around? On Capfriendly it still says he's unsigned and I don't see any team listed as a PTO for him.

 

[bucks_oil]

It's actually a pretty common refrain so the intention was not to single out dull. Once something is repeated enough it becomes ingrained in people's minds and it can be hard to counter. In this case, the numbers do present a convincing case that the Oilers are not the disaster 5 vs 5 that many people think they are. Now to be truthful, they won't win on their 5 vs 5 play alone. But so long as I am not missing something special team goals do still count.

Agree...

Though I would argue:

1) On average, they actually could win on their 5:5 play alone... at least by the numbers

2) However it is certainly true (to Duul's point) that they had a horrible series at 5v5 vs Vegas (a very strong 5v5 team)... I would still argue that had a lot to do with a very few bad goals by Skinner. That puck sitting by his pad on that breakdown still burned in my mind as just one example. As you know, a few goals one way or the other skews the numbers in a sample size as small as one series. The sample size is too small to draw a lasting conclusion, but the reality is Vegas beat em and we need to be better next time.

 

[Anarchism]

Agree...

Though I would argue:

1) On average, they actually could win on their 5:5 play alone... at least by the numbers

2) However it is certainly true (to Duul's point) that they had a horrible series at 5v5 vs Vegas (a very strong 5v5 team)... I would still argue that had a lot to do with a very few bad goals by Skinner. That puck sitting by his pad on that breakdown still burned in my mind as just one example. As you know, a few goals one way or the other skews the numbers in a sample size as small as one series. The sample size is too small to draw a lasting conclusion, but the reality is Vegas beat em and we need to be better next time.

So are you saying that in the playoffs powerplays are just as common and consistent as during the season and two are you saying the last 8 teams don't have a superior PK on balance to the rest of the 24 teams?
Because if there are less penalties or certain referees tighten up and call less or if the final 8 teams are better at PKing than the other 24 our PP becomes less effective or reliable does it not?
During the season we were RELYING on our PP to get at least a goal a game ...sometimes two and we were getting it. Do you believe we can rely on that in the playoffs?
Just saying we need to be better? They are pretty much the same team as are we. They will even have another 5 mil to spend. What you think were going to get sprinkled with fairy dust and everythng will go right for us AND they won't be able to respond?

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Did Max Comtois sign (or get a PTO) with Vegas... or was that just a rumour going around? On Capfriendly it still says he's unsigned and I don't see any team listed as a PTO for him.

Don't think he'll be signing any NHL contract until Hockey Canada release their findings in..what, 2026?

 

[bucks_oil]

So are you saying that in the playoffs powerplays are just as common and consistent as during the season and two are you saying the last 8 teams don't have a superior PK on balance to the rest of the 24 teams?
Because if there are less penalties or certain referees tighten up and call less or if the final 8 teams are better at PKing than the other 24 our PP becomes less effective or reliable does it not?
During the season we were RELYING on our PP to get at least a goal a game ...sometimes two and we were getting it. Do you believe we can rely on that in the playoffs?
Just saying we need to be better? They are pretty much the same team as are we. They will even have another 5 mil to spend. What you think were going to get sprinkled with fairy dust and everythng will go right for us AND they won't be able to respond?

Wow... that's a lot of words to put in my mouth. If you want to go reread my post you'd be able to see exactly what I wrote. In a nutshell, i) the numbers say are generally a good team 5v5, ii) the Vegas outcome says in that series we weren't. It was one series and we need to get better.

As for what you wrote above:
1) Powerplays actually went UP in the playoffs.
2) Yes, the final 8 teams would likely have a better PK, they'd also have a better PP... how that nets out is why we actually play the games.
3) Sure, they are pretty much the same team, so are we. I don't believe that if you play that series 10 times you get the same outcome each time. Maybe you do, that's fair. To me these guys are humans... one set executed well and the other didn't. Improvement simply means doing what we are capable of, which is executing and outcompeting.
4) We also have $1.8M (~$400K x 4.5) + Ceci's 3.1M or Kulak's $2.75M available to spend at the deadline.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Any reason why Holloway cant be our 4C?

Foegele-McLeod-Lavoie
Janmark-Holloway-Ryan

I have Holloway penciled in this year to make the team. I think Oiler brass wants him to make that step as well.

 

[FlameChampion]

Any reason why Holloway cant be our 4C?

Foegele-McLeod-Lavoie
Janmark-Holloway-Ryan

From a positional point of view, I think this bottom 6 configuration looks good.

Pros
- I think Ryan is a better RW than a C. Holloway has all the tools to be a C.
- It puts Lavoie and Holloway with 2 NHL players with experience (McLeod is still relatively inexperienced)

Cons
- Doesn’t really feel like Holloway is being put in a position to succeed. He should probably be in the Top 9.
- Don’t know if Holloway is ready defensively to play C. Likewise, don’t know if Lavoie is ready play Top 9.

 

[duul]

Any reason why Holloway cant be our 4C?

Foegele-McLeod-Lavoie
Janmark-Holloway-Ryan

That’s just two fourth lines. The same issues we’ve had forever.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

That’s just two fourth lines. The same issues we’ve had forever.

That’s shocking, you seemed to miss the post proving you wrong about how we were a “bad” team 5on5.

 

[joestevens29]

I have Holloway penciled in this year to make the team. I think Oiler brass wants him to make that step as well.

I can see Holloway getting caught in the numbers game. Him and Broberg are the only two guys that probably could make the team, but don't have to clear waivers.

 

[duul]

That’s shocking, you seemed to miss the post proving you wrong about how we were a “bad” team 5on5.

Link it?

We are a lower end/at best middle of the pack 5 on 5 team, and no cup winner has been anywhere near as bad. We’re trying to win a Cup here and our 5 on 5 numbers are trash. What’s there to be wrong about?

We’re talking about non McDavid lines here.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Link it?

We are a lower end/at best middle of the pack 5 on 5 team, and no cup winner has been anywhere near as bad. We’re trying to win a Cup here and our 5 on 5 numbers are trash. What’s there to be wrong about?

We’re talking about non McDavid lines here.

Fourier already went in depth on it, in this thread.

“
I am not sure what your definition of horrific is. The Oilers last year were 5th in 5 vs 5 GF and 10th in GF% which while not great on the GF% front is certainly not horrific. And this is not just about McDavid and Draisaitl. When those two were not on the ice the team scored 74 goals and had 60 goals against for a GF% of 55.22%. When none of McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge or Hyman were on the ice they scored 45 goals and gave up 35 last year.

The trend of better 5 vs 5 results has been ongoing for a couple of years. Moreover, the results after the addition of Ekholm were even more pronounced though the sample size is of course smaller. After that trade the Oilers had the 4th highest 5 vs 5 GF% behind only Boston, LA and Florida.”

I’m sure you’ll turn back into Stevie wonder when you see this, while still calling other posters disingenuous.

 

[Fourier]

So are you saying that in the playoffs powerplays are just as common and consistent as during the season and two are you saying the last 8 teams don't have a superior PK on balance to the rest of the 24 teams?
Because if there are less penalties or certain referees tighten up and call less or if the final 8 teams are better at PKing than the other 24 our PP becomes less effective or reliable does it not?
During the season we were RELYING on our PP to get at least a goal a game ...sometimes two and we were getting it. Do you believe we can rely on that in the playoffs?
Just saying we need to be better? They are pretty much the same team as are we. They will even have another 5 mil to spend. What you think were going to get sprinkled with fairy dust and everythng will go right for us AND they won't be able to respond?

The reality is that pp opportunities have gone up in the playoffs vs the regular season for quite sometime. Moreover, the proportion of total goals scored on the pp has also been higher. So one could make an argument that a good pp is even more important in the playoffs than it is in the regular season.

But of course getting better 5 vs 5 all other things staying the same is a plus. I actually think that this team should be a better 5 vs 5 team than it was last year. The addition of Brown is one factor, but I also expect growth from Bouchard and a better version of Cody Ceci. Moreover, having Ekholm all year can help Nurse play a simpler game.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Anyone have any of the important up coming dates for training camp and other preseason stuff? I'm itching to get me some hockey. I hit the ice last night for our beer group. Let's go it's hockey season!

 

[CycloneSweep]

Link it?

We are a lower end/at best middle of the pack 5 on 5 team, and no cup winner has been anywhere near as bad. We’re trying to win a Cup here and our 5 on 5 numbers are trash. What’s there to be wrong about?

We’re talking about non McDavid lines here.

Bullshit. Last year we were…
5v5 we were 7th in corsi
11th in Fenwick
10th in SF%
12 in GF%
6th in xGF%
3rd in HDCF%

That’s a GOOD team 5v5

St Louis Blues the year they won their cup
17 corsi
8 Fenwick
8 SF%
10 in GF%
6th in xGF%
2 in HDCF%

That team is pretty damn similar overall to what we were.

There goes your narrative.

Shit the year Washington won they were bottom 10 in almost every 5v5 stat but were 10th in GF%.

So no cup winner has ever been as bad? A recent cup winner has been far worse. I didn’t even have to look hard.

 

[Oilers in NS]

I can see Holloway getting caught in the numbers game. Him and Broberg are the only two guys that probably could make the team, but don't have to clear waivers.

I like his size and speed. Time for him to take that step

 

[duul]

Bullshit. Last year we were…
5v5 we were 7th in corsi
11th in Fenwick
10th in SF%
12 in GF%
6th in xGF%
3rd in HDCF%

That’s a GOOD team 5v5

St Louis Blues the year they won their cup
17 corsi
8 Fenwick
8 SF%
10 in GF%
6th in xGF%
2 in HDCF%

That team is pretty damn similar overall to what we were.

There goes your narrative.

Shit the year Washington won they were bottom 10 in almost every 5v5 stat but were 10th in GF%.

So no cup winner has ever been as bad? A recent cup winner has been far worse. I didn’t even have to look hard.

GF% being the most obviously important ‘advanced stat’ of them all has us at 12th in our best work. Only worse from there. Sure seems middlijgvto me. How about Vegas, Colorado, Tampa?

KEEP IN MIND we have the two top scorers in the entire NHL and are 12th. What does that say about the rest of the group? It states our bottom 6 is likely in the bottom 6 of NHL bottom 6’s. as in they don’t produce anywhere near well enough.