brentashton
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- Jan 21, 2018
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Yes that’s right. My bad.
I guess he then suffers an additional setback during the month he’s getting into game shape. Nasty groin pull, something something.
Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Broberg, Holloway and Ceci are Gone, Do We Add Another D Before Camp?
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I guess he then suffers an additional setback during the month he’s getting into game shape. Nasty groin pull, something something.
Broberg Speed
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If we use LTIR on any player during the regular season we stop accruing cap space... goodbye deadline deal some of you are fantasizing about. That should be the end of the discussion. Any blogger or f***nut on the internet that says otherwise is out to f***ing lunch.
It's a bad bet and the odds of picking up the defenseman we need to go all the way this season at the deadline are very low.
It's time to pony up and make a big time hockey trade, the day after regular season starts. Or put both Kane and Nurse on the LTIR now, set Nurse's LTIR retroactively... then we could make a trade today, before the season starts to set the LTIR upper limit... as long as Kane stays on the LTIR all season we should be good as long as some salary goes out the door in a trade.
This season rides on Kane being on LTIR. Betting the team doesn't have to dip into LTIR this season is stupid. Stop playing the stupid game. McDavid's extension is on the line.
It's a bad bet and the odds of picking up the defenseman we need to go all the way this season at the deadline are very low.
It's time to pony up and make a big time hockey trade, the day after regular season starts. Or put both Kane and Nurse on the LTIR now, set Nurse's LTIR retroactively... then we could make a trade today, before the season starts to set the LTIR upper limit... as long as Kane stays on the LTIR all season we should be good as long as some salary goes out the door in a trade.
This season rides on Kane being on LTIR. Betting the team doesn't have to dip into LTIR this season is stupid. Stop playing the stupid game. McDavid's extension is on the line.
McDNicks17
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Broberg Speed
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Fourier
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Nurse was hurt in the Panther series and it is unlikely that he will be worse now than he was in Game 7. McDavid was also injured and Draisaitl had both broken ribs and a broken finger so I am not sure I would place much credence on the injury front as a means pf saying the team is worse. In fact just the opposite, McDvaid and Draisaitl being healthy is a huge step forward.
I have never been a proponent of Ceci being useless but he certainly was not a major positive in the Final. I was very happy with what I saw from Broberg but the reality is that this was more about potential than what he was actually able to contribute. Frankly, Emberson had more of an impact last year than Broberg. Would that be true this year, who knows. But once Nurse is healthy I don't see a huge difference on the defense. On the other hand I think the forwards are at least on paper significantly better. On paper Arvidsson and Skinner are both legitimate top six forwards.
You lose speed in McLeod and Holloway, but Holloway was looking like the #4C and regardless of skating a healthy Henrique is a big upgrade on McLeod as a #3C.
Your post is basically contradictory. Why would they be able to manage the cap needed to add a significant RHD now but not at the deadline. Any big trade they could make today would be at least as easy to do at the deadline even if they did not accrue much new space.
YOu can make this statement about any team in a 32 team league and have an excellent chance of being right. It does not mean that your reasons for the claim are valid.
Heavy Dee
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If they were gonna Vegas this, Kane would report to camp and start the season on the roster. Try to play, but then realize a couple months in that he needs surgery. Go on LTIR until game 1 of the post season.
Broberg Speed
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I see the losing narrative already in place.
Another year another built in excuse before the season even gets underway... but but but we went to game 7... well that's all she wrote if we don't dramatically improve the second pairing to a championship level.
I don't give a flying f*** about the other 32 teams. And if the Oilers don't win it this year don't count on them ever winning it because we won't have the depth available to win. And you witnessed the organizational pipeline last night. I needs to be hammered into your brain.
If we can't muster up the depth to win while Draisaitl is making 8.5M, McDavid 12.5M and Bouchard 3.9M we sure as hell won't win it when the 3 are making a combined ~41M. We aren't going to win f*** all.
You can fart numbers about the cap going up until the crows fall out of the sky.
This is it, we have one chance left.
Broberg Speed
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If you want to Vegas place Kane on LTIR today. Then place Nurse on the LTIR retroactively to whatever arbitrary point you want (it's already out there in the media sphere he's rehabbing a playoff injury obtained in the finals)... he can come back early season.
That's how you Vegas. Sorry for the brashness but Edmontonians are honest people who don't know how to Vegas.
NHL Salary Cap Topics
Long Term Injured Reserve (LTIR) - High Level Overview
McDNicks17
Moderator
Putting Nurse on LTIR until early season does nothing.
When other teams have used LTIR to circumvent the cap there has at least been plausible deniability that the player is going to be injured one enough to be out until the playoffs. Hernia surgery is a 6-12 week recovery. If the Oilers put Kane on LTIR and filled that space now the league would most certainly investigate if come 3 months he’s not healthy and the team wasn’t able to become cap compliant.
Maybe is not a hernia surgery. Maybe he’s got a f***ed up back that needs surgery or something. But if the Oilers are going to use his hit via LTIR to add a $5-6m player they better make sure they can convincingly argue he’s going to be out until the end of the regular season.
It seems pretty clear the issue isn’t “Edmontonians don’t know how to Vegas” and more you don’t know how LTIR or the cap works.
Fourier
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Who is spouting of about losing? It seems that you might have to look in the mirror here.
Broberg Speed
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It sets the upper limit of the LTIR without waiting until the season begins to place Kane on LTIR... this to set an upper limit for Kane's LTIR and only Kanes LTIR. It's a measure of being proactive without waiting until the season starts to place Kane on LTIR.
Placing Nurse on LTIR would just ensure you have the maximum value of Kane's contract on LTIR before the season starts. Comprendre? Don't make it sound like I'm saying we could use the space of Nurse's cap hit on the LTIR during the season. I suspect you know exactly what I'm talking about.
If Kane and Nurse were placed on LTIR today it would set an LTIR upper limit for when the seasons starts.
The minute Nurse came of off LTIR that percentage of LTIR that can be taken advantage of is gone. Just like when Kane comes off of LTIR the space made available by LTIR is gone.
So what you are insinuating is flat out wrong.
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They will be a much better team at the deadline than they are now if they can accrue cap and add a 2RD and seriously upgrade the 4th line. Add in Kane’s return and barring injury we should be better then. But I’m not sure we’re better now than last years team at the end of Game 7.
A lot of unproven entities will have to work themselves out to see how we do in the first 20-25 games. But as another poster mentioned, coaching will be vastly improved.
Time will tell.
Fourier
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I agree with pretty much everything you say here, though I still think they are better on paper. But as you say what matters more is what they look like day one of the playoffs.
McDNicks17
Moderator
That's not how that works. You would have to wait for the first day of the season to LTIR Nurse too for that.
Using Training Camp LTIR on Nurse does nothing because that kind of LTIR requires you to be over the cap to get any benefit.
There's also no retroactive LTIR in the offseason. Nurse is gone for 10 games/24 days to start the year if he ends up on there. You'd be better off waiting until Day 1 to make a trade if you know Kane is going to miraculously miss the entire season.
Heavy Dee
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You should use an actual example, including numbers to illustrate this. I have never heard of this actually happening preseason.
Broberg Speed
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You can place Kane on the LTIR today or after the season starts. It has implications concerning the LTIR ceiling that is put in place for the season as regards to the LTIR that can be utilized.
Waiting until the season starts to place Kane on LTIR maximises this ceiling. Placing Nurse on LTIR retroactively would simply forego the necessity of waiting until the season starts to place Kane on LTIR to maximise the LTIR that can be used. And that can only be applied to the cap situation as long as Kane stays on LTIR.
If the Oilers run a 21 player roster until Kane is healthy with him on on IR instead of LTIR they could hypothetically (depending on who the extra skater is) accrue enough space to add a player making as much as Kane makes at the trade deadline.
You get the benefit of being able to add a player making as much as Kane does AND the benefit of being able to play Kane once he’s healthy come December or January.
You LTIR him now you can replace him immediately but you don’t get the benefit of having him play in the regular season and you need to hope the league doesn’t ask you why an injury that takes 6-12 weeks to recover from is taking a whole season.
You get the benefit of being able to add a player making as much as Kane does AND the benefit of being able to play Kane once he’s healthy come December or January.
You LTIR him now you can replace him immediately but you don’t get the benefit of having him play in the regular season and you need to hope the league doesn’t ask you why an injury that takes 6-12 weeks to recover from is taking a whole season.
I dont think you understand that we dont want to be using LTIR if we want to accrue capspace for the deadline.
The only way putting Nurse and Kane on LTIR benefits us, is if they are out until game 1 of the playoffs.
GhostfaceWu
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Lol you literally say surgeons are typically on vacations for these month what exactly did I misread in your post? Evander came out before the playoffs and said he has been playing with sports hernia for much of the year he had probably about 7 months to game plan when to get the surgery done none of the reasons you listed should have stopped a professional organization from getting a surgery done in the office season. Your insurance comment makes no sense either were gonna act like this is the first time the oilers organization had to deal with getting a surgery done during the summer months.
McDNicks17
Moderator
Like I said, that's not how that works.
Training camp LTIR vs. day 1 LTIR is just entirely where your cap is at. If you can't get under the cap, you have to use training camp LTIR. If you can, you use day 1 LTIR. Nurse can't go on training camp LTIR because the team isn't over the cap. You would have to wait until day 1 LTIR for him which would be pointless.
You're adding an impossible step to a pointless move that's part of a scenario that won't happen(Kane being out for the entire season).
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
Broberg Speed
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If Arvidsson or any other player has to be placed on the LTIR during the regular season we lose the ability to accrue cap space and the dream of accruing cap space for a deadline deal is over.
Betting on the popular notion of building cap space through accruement depends on the Oilers to not be dependant on LTIR at anytime during the regular season leading up to the deadline for all players on the Edmonton Oilers, not just Kane. You can even take Kane out of the equation when it comes to the sports hernia and being placed on IR.
Everything would ride on the entire team staying healthy, outside of Kane being on IR for a period of time, and not using LTIR for any situation that may arise.
The plan forces the team to not use LTIR on Kane as well as not use LTIR for any other player, period.
Broberg Speed
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It has nothing to do with training camp. It's an option available to the Oilers if they decide to take advantage of the timing. Likewise depending on how the Oilers manipulate the roster number and waivers to stay cap compliant.
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