Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: ... Silent Night

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McDraekke

5-14-6-1
Jan 19, 2006
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Edmonton
Oh I see what you mean, but actually the way you interpreted at first is right. But I did not mean to imply Benson = Bouchard, just that either prospect + 1st would've been a better core to the trade than whatever the 'yotes gave up. Price is obviously steep, but you're missing a couple of key points.

Bringing in Hall without giving up roster players (as ****ty as those roster players are) does not create more holes. In fact, it would make the lineup more balanced, as having Hall/RNH/McDavid/Drai split up 2 and 2 on the top 6 pushes down guys like Gagner/Chiasson/Khaira/etc. into the bottom 6, this actually improves the bottom 6 as guys are no longer forced to play above their ceiling (which has been a problem with this team for YEARS). Our 2nd line is missing a player exactly like Hall who can drive the offense at even strength. If he and RNH were our 2nd line, it would no doubt make RNH better, I can garuantee it. Not to mention, it might even take some of the pressure off of Larsson because he's no longer the brunt of "141" jokes.

However, if we go by your preference, making smaller trades to shore up the middle six is much easier said than done. What players are out there that fit this bill? Keep in mind you need to look at teams that are sellers. The players on those teams' top 6 are usually not actual top 6 quality, otherwise their team wouldn't really be sellers. You don't seem to realise that Hall would've shifted around our team and made a lot of players better (by being on a line with him, or sheltering them from tough opposition). It's not a simple "Oh here's Hall, that's it". Hall would've balanced this forward group single-handedly.

Also, I'm not even gonna pretend like our prospects even matter in this case. McDavid is 23, Draisaitl is 24. How long are we going to wait for prospects to HOPEFULLY pan out? 2 or 3 years tops? How often does a guy like Hall become available in a trade? Once every 2 or 3 years? How often does a guy that actually has a connection to Edmonton, and actually doesn't publically rule out playing here become available? Once every 5 years is probably being generous.

I'm gonna be honest, I'm pissed Holland couldn't beat Coyote's pitiful offer. The only thing worth a damn in that package was the 1st round pick. None of those prospects are really top tier. Like I said, Bouchard/Benson are better than all of them. We could've beat that package with guys like Lagesson, Jones, Bear, Yamamoto, etc. Do you really think trading 2 or 3 of those guys is weakening this team?

Whatever, the opportunity came and went. This team will continue to mire around as a 2-man team. Going nowhere fast.

My weakening the team statement was in reference to you saying we could fill holes created by lack of cap space in the roster with ELC players, which has never worked for our team. Our bottom six and d corps are already heavily suspect, replacing some of those players with rookies doesn’t make the team better, it will make it worse.
No, I don’t have a list of players that could fit the bill for upgrading our middle 6, but they would be a lot cheaper to acquire than Hall, less salary going forward than Hall, and honestly probably makes for a deeper team altogether than just Hall, when you take into consideration the long term affects of signing Hall (filling holes with rookies to fit under cap ceiling).
If we did the same trade but with Bouchard instead of their prospects, we likely make the playoffs, maybe win a round, and then you want to re-sign Hall, so actually it’d end up being two 1st’s and Bouchard which is a heavy f***ing price to pay for Hall who has a bad history of injuries and who doesn’t play a lick of defensive hockey.

edit: lack of formatting care of my cell phone
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
26,697
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Waterloo Ontario
I think I rather have overpaid for Hall than go after Kreider. At least I think there is a chance hall would re-sign. I doubt Kreider is re-signing in Canada.
Assuming Hall is legitimately interested in signing in Edmonton my guess is that the cap hit to get either player would not differ by all that much. I think you are looking at $7.5M to get Kreider to come to Edmonton.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
78,663
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Alberta
I think I rather have overpaid for Hall than go after Kreider. At least I think there is a chance hall would re-sign. I doubt Kreider is re-signing in Canada.
I mean that's fair, but I still think focusing on this seasons is important and Kreider can be an very good addition for this team going forward.
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
54,050
17,175
Assuming Hall is legitimately interested in signing in Edmonton my guess is that the cap hit to get either player would not differ by all that much. I think you are looking at $7.5M to get Kreider to come to Edmonton.
How often do high end american free agents sign in Canada? I just don't see it.

Maybe if we were one player away from being a cup contender, but we are so far from that.
 

space321

Registered User
May 11, 2011
6,075
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My weakening the team statement was in reference to you saying we could fill holes created by lack of cap space in the roster with ELC players, which has never worked for our team. Our bottom six and d corps are already heavily suspect, replacing some of those players with rookies doesn’t make the team better, it will make it worse.
No, I don’t have a list of players that could fit the bill for upgrading our middle 6, but they would be a lot cheaper to acquire than Hall, less salary going forward than Hall, and honestly probably makes for a deeper team altogether than just Hall, when you take into consideration the long term affects of signing Hall (filling holes with rookies to fit under cap ceiling).
If we did the same trade but with Bouchard instead of their prospects, we likely make the playoffs, maybe win a round, and then you want to re-sign Hall, so actually it’d end up being two 1st’s and Bouchard which is a heavy ****ing price to pay for Hall who has a bad history of injuries and who doesn’t play a lick of defensive hockey.

edit: lack of formatting care of my cell phone

Okay you started off at least making a point, but then you just veered off the deep end. Let me just tell you it's a LOT harder than you think to fill middle 6 with FAs. All FAs will be overpaid, doesn't matter if it's Hall or some 3rd line centre.

But you're right, so glad we didn't mortgage our future and I can't wait to watch those two 1st round picks help McDrai to their a playoff berth in 2022 (if we're lucky).

If we didn't have McDrai, I wouldn't give two shits about Hall. Having McDrai means we have to GO FOR IT NOW, a first round exit this year is not a bad thing, anything can happen if you make the playoffs. At latest it has to be next year, or else McDavid's good as gone. Despite our good start, it has become clear this team is not good enough. Smith is brutal, and Koskinen's going to become a victim of the terrible team in front of him again, just like last year.
 

LaGu

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Jan 4, 2011
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Honest question, maybe I am looking in the wrong places but regarding the details of the Hall deal:
If Arizona goes on and win one playoff round and manage to re-sign Hall the Devils get Arizona's 1st round pick in 2020 and 2021? In all other cases the Devils get Arizona's 1st round pick in 2020 and 3rd round pick in 2021?

So I will repeat what Stauffer suggested the Oilers would need to give to get Hall:
Broberg/Bouchard
1st rounder
conditional 1st

Compare that to what NJ actually got. Does anyone really believe big boy anymore? Clueless.

This goes a bit to my question above. I mean they got 2/3rds of what they wanted, rigth?
Broberg/Bouchard >> Schnarr, Merkley, Bahl
They got quantity instead of quality, but I think those are decent prospects. Obviously Broberg or Bouchard are more valuable though.
1st rounder = 1st rounder
conditional 1st = conditional 1st
 
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Perfect_Drug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
16,120
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Montreal
Anyone wanting to trade our 1st for Hall is absolutely insane.

We aren't even remotely considered to be a contender this year.
A f***ton of depth will be available to us when teams panic around the expansion draft.
 

LaGu

Registered User
Jan 4, 2011
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Anyone wanting to trade our 1st for Hall is absolutely insane.

We aren't even remotely considered to be a contender this year.
A ****ton of depth will be available to us when teams panic around the expansion draft.
I understand it as if some actually think that we should have traded our 1st in 2020 and our 1st in 2021, seeing as it is apparently a given that we'll be winning at least a playoff round with Hall on the team and that he will re-sign.

edit: again, if I have understood this deal correctly that is.
 

Perfect_Drug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
16,120
12,903
Montreal
I understand it as if some actually think that we should have traded our 1st in 2020 and our 1st in 2021, seeing as it is apparently a given that we'll be winning at least a playoff round with Hall on the team and that he will re-sign.

edit: again, if I have understood this deal correctly that is.

Let me reframe this:
I don't think we should EVER go for rentals. Never-ever.

I think they're always a bad idea. I don't think I've ever seen them pan out (feel free to prove me wrong with some examples if you believe otherwise).

So giving up a 1st for a rental is a complete non-starter.


Columbus gave up a 1st for a rental to win their playoff round. I don't think it did them any good. I certainly don't think they're closer to winning a cup today.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,343
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If the rumor is Hall is signing with us in the offseason then yeah, I wouldn't give up anything for him either.
 

Mcnotloilersfan

I'm here, I'm bored
Jul 11, 2010
11,328
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Niagara
I understand it as if some actually think that we should have traded our 1st in 2020 and our 1st in 2021, seeing as it is apparently a given that we'll be winning at least a playoff round with Hall on the team and that he will re-sign.

edit: again, if I have understood this deal correctly that is.

Yup thats the thing. If we made the same deal, it is far more likely that we would be giving up 2 first rounders than it is for Arizona.

I'd rather keep those 1st rounders and our prospects, and go for Hall in the summer. I wanted to get him, but Jones, Pulju and a 2nd was the most I was willing to go.
 
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LaGu

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Jan 4, 2011
7,502
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Italy
Thanks for the replies @Perfect_Drug @Mcnotloilersfan

Basically if things would have gone to **** with Hall we would still have given up this year's 1st rounder (high one) + prospects, and if things go in the best possible way we give up 2 1st rounders.
 

Whyme

Registered User
Nov 3, 2019
1,784
1,878
Honest question, maybe I am looking in the wrong places but regarding the details of the Hall deal:
If Arizona goes on and win one playoff round and manage to re-sign Hall the Devils get Arizona's 1st round pick in 2020 and 2021? In all other cases the Devils get Arizona's 1st round pick in 2020 and 3rd round pick in 2021?

I think you're otherwise right, but if one of the two things happen (win one playoff round OR re-sign Hall) the 1st/3rd round pick turns to a 2nd rounder.
 
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Kolja

1-5-6-14
Oct 30, 2011
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johan-franzen-2016-34.jpg


What?
 
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bucks_oil

Registered User
Aug 25, 2005
8,752
5,138
I understand it as if some actually think that we should have traded our 1st in 2020 and our 1st in 2021, seeing as it is apparently a given that we'll be winning at least a playoff round with Hall on the team and that he will re-sign.

edit: again, if I have understood this deal correctly that is.


The conditions are:

1) A third if they don't resign him and don't win a playoff series
2) A 2nd if one of those things happens
3) A 1st if both of those things happen

I like to think that with Hall, we'd 1) make the playoffs, 2) resign him, and 3) win a round...

So our price would have been:

Bouchard/Broberg + 1st 2020 + 1st 2021 for a resigned Hall, vs

Optimistically: we make the playoffs, bow out after a round and sign him anyway, or
Pessimistically: we miss the playoffs, miss on Hall and have to fundamentally rebuild our middle six without him

I'm not so enamored with our D-core that I would have pulled the trigger. We still don't have a true #1D IMO. We need one or both of Broberg & Bouchard to be replacing a (by then) aging Larsson/Klef + a too expensive Nurse.

I'm all for getting Hall this summer if we can... but it will signal that Nuge is out the door the following summer (or takes a HUGE discount) and so we'll need assets to spend at next year's TDL to put us over the top.
 
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Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
78,663
41,645
Alberta
I see a potential "buylow" candidate as Mikael Granlund, isn't having a great year in Nashville, didn't have a great time after the trade last year, soon to be UFA, would be a big help to this team on the wings, I wonder what kind of deal could be broached there.

Edit: Oops, wrong one initial, thanks BarDown
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

Life is better with no expectations.
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Apr 3, 2016
51,994
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Edmonton
I wonder if we might see Starrett up for a couple of games starting between Xmas and New years's???
'
Zero chance that happens unless there is an injury and even then he will be warming up the backup seat. He has been injured most of the year and is just starting to find his form now.
 
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