Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Defense Set, or Another Addition In the Works?

[SupremeTeam16]

Have we done the same thing? Are we going to do it again re: Larsson's back. If your not pushing the rules are you competing hard enough? You didnt have a coach tell you to bend the rules as far as you can without breaking them?--i.e. butt ending to the stomach illegal but putting ur hand on the end of the knob in the corner and making room is not.
Maybe ur just pissed off we never got a chance to get a quality player for pennies on the dollar??If your team can circumvent the cap for a win ...do you do that? The loophole is there---its there for all---the playing field is level. Poor teams using it...mismanaged teams using it...successful teams using it. Its kinda fun.

Dont get me wrong, as someone who takes pleasure in using loopholes/legal rule bending and throwing it in institutions faces, I respect the hell out of Tampa.

Almost all teams do it but Tampa is taking it to the next level and being very blatant about it, but the important part to remember is that they are so head and shoulders ahead of the competition that it allows them to do this, most teams couldn’t go without their best offensive weapon all season and still be almost guaranteed to make the playoffs, they can win a cup without their captain/one of their best players and they will likely easily make the playoffs without their best player who’s an annually in the discussion for Art Ross and Hart. Kudos to them for building such a powerhouse and drafting/developing so well, they are literally the model but we also can’t act like they haven’t been privileged in having a much easier time retaining and acquiring players many times below market value in part because of their success but also because of things like location/weather, state taxes, not playing in a media/fan fishbowl. Now it’s a perfect storm of the good roster building and all these small advantages added up that’s led to them being such a talented and deep team that they’re going to slip out of this back against the wall situation and buy enough time to sort out a more long term solution. I’m sure they’d rather it be a mcdonnagh, Johnson, Palat who could use an elective surgery but none of those players cap hit is big enough to make the whole plan work. Only guys like Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasy and possibly Hedman could make it work. Of those guys I’d say Hedman and Vasy are more critical to that teams success then either fwd based on position and the fact TB is so deep up front.

I’m not saying it’s some big conspiracy and Kucherov isn’t actually injured just that it’s incredible how things have lined up for them, allowing them to be greasy and slip out of it right when it looked like they were going to get bent over.

This seems like another situation where the league ends up with egg on their face, not that they aren’t used to it already but they could avoid it by instituting a small minimum regular season games rule, closing a loophole and making Tampa take their medicine this year, it’ll sting but won’t be devastating for them. This plays like a rich guy with a hot shot lawyer getting off on a technicality or getting a slap on the wrist and walking out the court room with a big smile on his face.

I know it sounds like I’m salty about it but I’m more upset about the fact our team doesn’t seem to do more to find and use these loopholes to our advantage, seems like we’re always getting the shit end of things. Tampa on the other hand just sailing through a hurricane with ease, they remind me of the dynasty Oilers just finding all these guys, hitting on so many prospects and trades, they can’t lose. But they’re an opponent so yeah, of course I’d like to see them get caught in a move and taken down a peg.

 

[Anarchism]

Would very much like to see Hamonic catch Johnny boy with his head down in the neutral zone.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Would very much like to see Hamonic catch Johnny boy with his head down in the neutral zone.

Hahah. Poor Johnny Pocket Hockey must just cry himself to sleep every night dreaming of being able to sign as UFA in Philly

 

[Anarchism]

Dont get me wrong, as someone who takes pleasure in using loopholes/legal rule bending and throwing it in institutions faces, I respect the hell out of Tampa.

Almost all teams do it but Tampa is taking it to the next level and being very blatant about it, but the important part to remember is that they are so head and shoulders ahead of the competition that it allows them to do this, most teams couldn’t go without their best offensive weapon all season and still be almost guaranteed to make the playoffs, they can win a cup without their captain/one of their best players and they will likely easily make the playoffs without their best player who’s an annually in the discussion for Art Ross and Hart. Kudos to them for building such a powerhouse and drafting/developing so well, they are literally the model but we also can’t act like they haven’t been privileged in having a much easier time retaining and acquiring players many times below market value in part because of their success but also because of things like location/weather, state taxes, not playing in a media/fan fishbowl. Now it’s a perfect storm of the good roster building and all these small advantages added up that’s led to them being such a talented and deep team that they’re going to slip out of this back against the wall situation and buy enough time to sort out a more long term solution. I’m sure they’d rather it be a mcdonnagh, Johnson, Palat who could use an elective surgery but none of those players cap hit is big enough to make the whole plan work. Only guys like Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasy and possibly Hedman could make it work. Of those guys I’d say Hedman and Vasy are more critical to that teams success then either fwd based on position and the fact TB is so deep up front.

I’m not saying it’s some big conspiracy and Kucherov isn’t actually injured just that it’s incredible how things have lined up for them, allowing them to be greasy and slip out of it right when it looked like they were going to get bent over.

This seems like another situation where the league ends up with egg on their face, not that they aren’t used to it already but they could avoid it by instituting a small minimum regular season games rule, closing a loophole and making Tampa take their medicine this year, it’ll sting but won’t be devastating for them. This plays like a rich guy with a hot shot lawyer getting off on a technicality or getting a slap on the wrist and walking out the court room with a big smile on his face.

I know it sounds like I’m salty about it but I’m more upset about the fact our team doesn’t seem to do more to find and use these loopholes to our advantage, seems like we’re always getting the shit end of things. Tampa on the other hand just sailing through a hurricane with ease, they remind me of the dynasty Oilers just finding all these guys, hitting on so many prospects and trades, they can’t lose. But they’re an opponent so yeah, of course I’d like to see them get caught in a move and taken down a peg.

If you "catch" them as you describe what do you do for financially challenged Ottawa who has survived by being artificially substantially below the cap floor (15 mil+) and has had time to rebuild their roster because of it? You want to single out Tampa?

 

[Snipes45]

I want Tampa to make the playoffs so everybody can se how supported Kucherov is lol. All-Star team. Has Stamkos and co. Has Hedman. has a Vezina goalie. Nobody bats an eye to his MVP. McDaid and Drai play on the same team and the media sh** on them. it's pathetic

 

[Anarchism]

I want Tampa to make the playoffs so everybody can se how supported Kucherov is lol. All-Star team. Has Stamkos and co. Has Hedman. has a Vezina goalie. Nobody bats an eye to his MVP. McDaid and Drai play on the same team and the media sh** on them. it's pathetic

AAAhhhh...I see. Ur too young to remember Gretz, and Mess and Anderson and the rest of the boys on the bus. There was a time when teams would play not to lose too badly against those boys.

 

[Snipes45]

AAAhhhh...I see. Ur too young to remember Gretz, and Mess and Anderson and the rest of the boys on the bus. There was a time when teams would play not to lose too badly against those boys.

Unfortunately, I really got into hockey in 1990 lol. I remember that win. 82 born. That was kinda of a blue though.

1991 is when I really watched it properly. All down hill from there my friend.....lol

 

[The Nuge]

Expect a lot of "Tyson Bear" and "Ethan Barrie" calls this season.

to be fair, it’s not like he got the Russell’s mixed up all the time

I want Tampa to make the playoffs so everybody can se how supported Kucherov is lol. All-Star team. Has Stamkos and co. Has Hedman. has a Vezina goalie. Nobody bats an eye to his MVP. McDaid and Drai play on the same team and the media sh** on them. it's pathetic

You’re bang on. To heck with them just making the playoffs. I’ll be shocked if Tampa doesn’t still win their division. Detroit and Chicago suck, Florida and Nashville aren’t great, Columbus’ defense got drastically worse this offseason, and Dallas is missing Sequin. Carolina is the only team I see with a shot at the division. And Tampa might have lost Kucherov, but they’re adding Stamkos, who wasn’t there when they just won the cup. That team is ridiculously stacked, and won’t miss Kucherov

 

[Anarchism]

I have seen a fair amount of Hamonic and believe he can be 'saved' by becoming a defensive specialist and great outlet passing. All the bad decisions ....bad passing , bad pinching, bad shot selection....all can be overcome. Of course the potential offensive contributions would be lost in this transition.
So if Holland really is talking to his camp ....hopefully he only pays so much and with the above intentions.

 

[Samus44]

I don't mind having offence first defencemen playing on their offside. They need a defence first partner and an conscientious center. The benefits can outweigh the drawbacks. We got two of the best passing centers in the league always looking for that right handed shot.

As a guy who's always been a strong puck mover when playing D, albeit against bums, I've always preferred playing my offside. I like having my forehand to the middle of the ice for defending. Using the net as a pick is easier on dump-ins and when rushing you can use your body to protect the puck easier against the forecheck as you have more space to move on your forehand. The big issue is obviously the play on your boards is a backhand but I always found that having a strong first pass and mobility meant I was less inclined to make the play up the boards compared to some other guys. On occasion strong puck movers like Visnovsky and Vatanen are actually better given the benefits play to their strengths, perhaps the same could be true for Barrie. I also think Hamonic's physicality and mobility would make him capable of doing it and perhaps it's a safer play to move him over.

 

[Anarchism]

Unfortunately, I really got into hockey in 1990 lol. I remember that win. 82 born. That was kinda of a blue though.

1991 is when I really watched it properly. All down hill from there my friend.....lol

If you look at Tampa's roster its mostly all drafting and trades....very little free agency signings for Tampa location (possibly a couple of players).
Or are you saying they have an unfair playing field cause of ability to hire superior management?
The situation is really like the early 70's montreal canadiens.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

If you "catch" them as you describe what do you do for financially challenged Ottawa who has survived by being artificially substantially below the cap floor (15 mil+) and has had time to rebuild their roster because of it? You want to single out Tampa?

Two different situations, Ottawa hasn’t gained a competitive advantage by artificially inflating their cap, if anything it limits their ability to be competitive and serves only to save the owner money in hopes that he can afford to spend when it’s time to pay their players and spend in a competitive window they hope to have in the future.

But for the record like how there should be a minimum regular season games rule I don’t think teams should be able to trade ltir contracts for the indirect purpose of cap circumvention of the ceiling or floor. If you can’t afford to spend to the league minimum then you shouldn’t own a team.

The LTIR rules need to be tweaked and I’m sure the league will at some point but not before the best team in the league slips through a loophole pretty much only they could make work. I mean it’s crazy to think that in order to create enough cap a team would sit their best forward for the entire year but that’s precisely what’s happening here.

 

[Anarchism]

Two different situations, Ottawa hasn’t gained a competitive advantage by artificially inflating their cap, if anything it limits their ability to be competitive and serves only to save the owner money in hopes that he can afford to spend when it’s time to pay their players and spend in a competitive window they hope to have in the future.

But for the record like how there should be a minimum regular season games rule I don’t think teams should be able to trade ltir contracts for the indirect purpose of cap circumvention of the ceiling or floor. If you can’t afford to spend to the league minimum then you shouldn’t own a team.

The LTIR rules need to be tweaked and I’m sure the league will at some point but not before the best team in the league slips through a loophole pretty much only they could make work. I mean it’s crazy to think that in order to create enough cap a team would sit their best forward for the entire year but that’s precisely what’s happening here.

Thats the point ...the situation is different....and i like the 'wiggle' room that LTIR creates....its there when you 'need' it and its available in one form or another to all teams. Further alot of the very wealthy are high risk takers that have gambled and won big business wise....sometimes those gambles go bad ...markets change, etc. etc.
Hockey is very viable in Ottawa/Gatineau.
Las Vegas has used this loophole sparingly but the potential of it being there has almost certainly been a factor in there decisions and it has been very entertaining.
The ability to spend over the cap and having a last ditch 'out' remaining provides for a value that i dont want to see gone or replaced with a true 'hard' cap. The lack of trades and signings would be stifling.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Expect a lot of "Tyson Bear" and "Ethan Barrie" calls this season.

I'm just happy we get to hear calls for goals this year in hockey

 

[McTonyBrar]

WHO IS THIS MORON?!?!?!!? He has montreal winning the division and EDMONTON second last

 

[shoop]

Thats the point ...the situation is different....and i like the 'wiggle' room that LTIR creates....its there when you 'need' it and its available in one form or another to all teams.

The league and NHLPA need to clear up the LTIR loophole in the CBA.

It's bullshit the Oilers have to pull of some paper transactions on the first day of the season for things that they know will happen now. Why can't the Oilers officially put Klefbom on LTIR now? I don't understand the logic of forcing teams to be under the cap on the first day of the season.

It is very possible that the Oilers and Bear's camp have a rough agreement of some kind for what he will sign for. Regardless, this goofy rule on maximizing LTIR by being under the cap on the first day of the season is just goofy.

I'm sure something will happen with the Oilers roster between now and first day of the season. If nothing changed it would be really easy for the Oilers to maximize their LTIR. They will have to 'bury' James Neal for the first day of the season. Then they will be cap compliant. The Oilers would have to waive Neal. People would laugh at any team claiming James Neal.

Who is helped by making the Oilers go through this charade? The NHLPA should want more certainty for their members. Management would prefer things to be smoother as well.

 

[backhandsauce]

Hamonic isn’t that bad guys. He’s actually quite good. I’d rather have him that Hutton and the other guys name I can’t spell.

Hammer would be a welcome addition to the Oilers.

 

[nabob]

WHO IS THIS MORON?!?!?!!? He has montreal winning the division and EDMONTON second last

how anyone can have Vancouver 2nd or 3rd because of Holtby is beyond me. I actually think Montreal could finish last if Price doesn’t stand on his head.

 

[nabob]

Hamonic isn’t that bad guys. He’s actually quite good. I’d rather have him that Hutton and the other guys name I can’t spell.

Hammer would be a welcome addition to the Oilers.

It’s too bad he isn’t a LHS. Maybe Holland signs Hamonic and works a deal to move Larsson out?

 

[MessierII]

It’s too bad he isn’t a LHS. Maybe Holland signs Hamonic and works a deal to move Larsson out?

I’d rather have Larsson than Hamonic though.

 

[Klimando Kostani]

WHO IS THIS MORON?!?!?!!? He has montreal winning the division and EDMONTON second last

Might be right if we are just ranking goaltenders, though is still swap Cal and Tor..

 

[CycloneSweep]

I think people have Edmonton doing bad cause I think we tend to under perform against Canadian teams.

 

[nabob]

I’d rather have Larsson than Hamonic though.

there’s also cap space and the possibility of ice time for Bouchard.

so it’s Hamonic, cap space, Bouchard, and the return you get for Larsson in exchange for Larsson. I’m not sure Larsson was a better player than Hamonic last year.

 

[nabob]

I think people have Edmonton doing bad cause I think we tend to under perform against Canadian teams.

this is true. HNIC has not been fun to watch most evenings the last couple years.

 

[McShogun99]

how anyone can have Vancouver 2nd or 3rd because of Holtby is beyond me. I actually think Montreal could finish last if Price doesn’t stand on his head.

Just because they beat Pittsburgh in the playin round and their 2 rookie centers looked good the "experts" are picking Montreal to be a good team. They still heavily rely on a healthy Price, Domi for Anderson was a downgrade. Allen and Toffoli are upgrades but I don't think it's enough to push them past Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary.