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EbonyRaptor

EbonyRaptor

Registered User
Jul 10, 2009
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Geezerville
belfour30 said:
Don't trade EDM.
Click to expand...

Eh ... I'm less high on EDM than many of my fellow Hawks fans. I think his ceiling is a bottom-pairing guy who can be used on the PP. The main problem I have with him is he has heavy feet so he doesn't have very good lateral movement or short area quickness. I like a lot of other things about him including his offensive instincts and the ability to run a PP and shoot from the blueline.

On the other hand I like everything about Kaiser better except he doesn't have EDM's size and physical play - he tries but simply doesn't have the body mass.

If I had to pick between EDM and Kaiser - I would go Kaiser.
 
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Space umpire

Registered User
Nov 15, 2018
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Cocoa Beach, Florida
EbonyRaptor said:
Eh ... I'm less high on EDM than many of my fellow Hawks fans. I think his ceiling is a bottom-pairing guy who can be used on the PP. The main problem I have with him is he has heavy feet so he doesn't have very good lateral movement or short area quickness. I like a lot of other things about him including his offensive instincts and the ability to run a PP and shoot from the blueline.

On the other hand I like everything about Kaiser better except he doesn't have EDM's size and physical play - he tries but simply doesn't have the body mass.

If I had to pick between EDM and Kaiser - I would go Kaiser.
Click to expand...
It’s obvious you’re not familiar with EDM.
His offense has come along a bit but nobody is pencilling him on any PP.
He is a much above average defender with “some” offense.
He’s also very competent on the right side.
 
dj Mahoney

dj Mahoney

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Apr 11, 2021
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EbonyRaptor said:
Eh ... I'm less high on EDM than many of my fellow Hawks fans. I think his ceiling is a bottom-pairing guy who can be used on the PP. The main problem I have with him is he has heavy feet so he doesn't have very good lateral movement or short area quickness. I like a lot of other things about him including his offensive instincts and the ability to run a PP and shoot from the blueline.

On the other hand I like everything about Kaiser better except he doesn't have EDM's size and physical play - he tries but simply doesn't have the body mass.

If I had to pick between EDM and Kaiser - I would go Kaiser.
Click to expand...
I like both guys and think they both project as possible top 4 D . Lesser versions of Duncan and Brent upsides .
 
EbonyRaptor

EbonyRaptor

Registered User
Jul 10, 2009
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Space umpire said:
It’s obvious you’re not familiar with EDM.
His offense has come along a bit but nobody is pencilling him on any PP.
He is a much above average defender with “some” offense.
He’s also very competent on the right side.
Click to expand...

That is the kind of statement too prominent in HF posts. It immediately sets up an adversarial discussion rather than respectfully voicing a counter opinion and argument.

I have no idea how familiar you are with EDM so I can't say you've watched him play more than I have. I watched him play for Sarnia in the Memorial Cup a couple years ago, as well as for Team Canada in the 2023 WJC, as well as a bunch of Icehog games and the couple games he played with the Hawks this season. Does that mean my assessment of his play is dead on? No. But it does provide me enough of a sample size to see his strengths and weaknesses as they exist right now and based on that I believe Kaiser is a better D-prospect than EDM and I believe the ceiling for EDM is 4/5.
 
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giza

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Jul 19, 2011
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If McGroarty wants out, then they aren't in a position to get equal value-----the 18th pick in itself should be pretty close to fair value, but I would thrown in Entwistle to sweeten the deal. The 18th and Kaiser or EDM is a bit overkill.
 
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Space umpire

Registered User
Nov 15, 2018
3,208
2,614
Cocoa Beach, Florida
EbonyRaptor said:
That is the kind of statement too prominent in HF posts. It immediately sets up an adversarial discussion rather than respectfully voicing a counter opinion and argument.

I have no idea how familiar you are with EDM so I can't say you've watched him play more than I have. I watched him play for Sarnia in the Memorial Cup a couple years ago, as well as for Team Canada in the 2023 WJC, as well as a bunch of Icehog games and the couple games he played with the Hawks this season. Does that mean my assessment of his play is dead on? No. But it does provide me enough of a sample size to see his strengths and weaknesses as they exist right now and based on that I believe Kaiser is a better D-prospect than EDM and I believe the ceiling for EDM is 4/5.
Click to expand...
We are similar in having seen him over the past season.
When you watched that WJC who was the Dman constantly being called out for shutting down the opponents top line?
 
EbonyRaptor

EbonyRaptor

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Jul 10, 2009
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Space umpire said:
We are similar in having seen him over the past season.
When you watched that WJC who was the Dman constantly being called out for shutting down the opponents top line?
Click to expand...

EDM played well in the WJC - best I've seen him play. After the WJC I saw him play a bunch of Hogs games where he didn't look that good - at least not consistently. I think EDM has enough game to have an NHL career because he does some things well - but up to now I don't see a ceiling above a 4/5 guy.

Kaiser, on the other hand, has shown me a higher ceiling despite most of the opportunities he's had with the Hawks he was forced to play his off-hand with a terrible d-partner.
 
Hattrick Kane

Hattrick Kane

Registered User
Oct 8, 2018
9,508
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EbonyRaptor said:
EDM played well in the WJC - best I've seen him play. After the WJC I saw him play a bunch of Hogs games where he didn't look that good - at least not consistently. I think EDM has enough game to have an NHL career because he does some things well - but up to now I don't see a ceiling above a 4/5 guy.

Kaiser, on the other hand, has shown me a higher ceiling despite most of the opportunities he's had with the Hawks he was forced to play his off-hand with a terrible d-partner.
Click to expand...
Kaiser got pushed off the puck very easily, and would often fumble when under pressure. It had nothing to do with which side he was playing. He needs to get physically stronger or he’ll continue to get bullied.

The ice hogs were a team that as a whole, were not great defensively. But it was a lot more rare for opposing teams to score when EDM was out there. He’s physical and knows where to be positionally. That’s why he’s going to get a long hard look at training camp.
 
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10YearsAfter

10YearsAfter

Registered User
Feb 11, 2014
260
235
Connecticut
EbonyRaptor said:
Eh ... I'm less high on EDM than many of my fellow Hawks fans. I think his ceiling is a bottom-pairing guy who can be used on the PP. The main problem I have with him is he has heavy feet so he doesn't have very good lateral movement or short area quickness. I like a lot of other things about him including his offensive instincts and the ability to run a PP and shoot from the blueline.

On the other hand I like everything about Kaiser better except he doesn't have EDM's size and physical play - he tries but simply doesn't have the body mass.

If I had to pick between EDM and Kaiser - I would go Kaiser.
Click to expand...
Glad you're not making personal decisions for Hawks
 
DisgruntledHawkFan

DisgruntledHawkFan

Blackhawk Down
Jun 19, 2004
58,402
29,783
South Side
Hattrick Kane said:
Kaiser got pushed off the puck very easily, and would often fumble when under pressure. It had nothing to do with which side he was playing. He needs to get physically stronger or he’ll continue to get bullied.

The ice hogs were a team that as a whole, were not great defensively. But it was a lot more rare for opposing teams to score when EDM was out there. He’s physical and knows where to be positionally. That’s why he’s going to get a long hard look at training camp.
Click to expand...
Kaiser isn't a strong player but the dude never gets bullied. He's a tough kid.
 
EbonyRaptor

EbonyRaptor

Registered User
Jul 10, 2009
7,341
3,246
Geezerville
Hattrick Kane said:
Kaiser got pushed off the puck very easily, and would often fumble when under pressure. It had nothing to do with which side he was playing. He needs to get physically stronger or he’ll continue to get bullied.

The ice hogs were a team that as a whole, were not great defensively. But it was a lot more rare for opposing teams to score when EDM was out there. He’s physical and knows where to be positionally. That’s why he’s going to get a long hard look at training camp.
Click to expand...

Yes del Mastro has the size and physical advantage over Kaiser - but Kaiser has the quickness and agility advantage over EDM - he gets to the puck and makes a play before EDM can;.

10YearsAfter said:
Glad you're not making personal decisions for Hawks
Click to expand...

Great comment - really dug into the meat of the argument.
 
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u2wojo

Registered User
Dec 22, 2011
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717
Blackhawkswincup said:
There will be market for him so they likely can get better then 18th overall
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Depends on if McGroarty limits the market as he has the leverage of I'll go back to school and get closer to UFA status if you try to trade him somewhere he doesn't want to go. If he pulls an Adam Fox (or Patty Kane) and limits the market to the Rangers, the return could be real disappointing. If he just doesn't like Winnipeg or Canada and would be happy with a dozen plus other NHL teams, #18 is a decent start but it will take more.
 
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