Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)
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OkimLom
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- May 3, 2010
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The argument isn't exclusive to Power, but Power is the focus here because of how obvious the physical play in his own end, especially defensively has been there before he was even drafted and continues to be at that level.
He's not a weakling getting run over every game, he's just not going to be physically dominant (or close to it) for a few years. Imagine keeping him in Rochester until he's 23 or 24, just waiting until he's at that point. Not reasonable.
While all NHL teams undeniably need a certain degree of physical presence to be successful, not all player have to be physical to be successful or help their team.
Quin Hughes is physically underwhelming D, yet he is dominating the league in other areas.
The idea of generalizing physicality as a necessary trait to play in the NHL is misleading, and pushing prospects to focus on it usually does more harm than good to development.
OkimLom
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- May 3, 2010
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Why is it not reasonable? If a guy is showing to be behind in certain root issues in playing hockey, why is it unreasonable to keep him in leagues to work on his game until he's met levels to show he's ready before he's thrusted into a league he's not ready for?
Where did I say he needed to be in development for 5-6 years? IF it takes that long to develop him, then so be it. Guy is 20 years old. To act like asking him to be developed in a logical manner, when your organization has the time to do so, and can structure the team to allow him to do so, is somehow unreasonable, is quite weird.
We have a ton of examples of players that were developed terribly, while seeing the organization continue to rush players to the NHL roster, and thrusted into roles they are not ready for the exact same ways and decisions in deciding WHERE to develop players. Nothing has changed with this organization. They aren't patient with their prospects.
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
Kulich, Rosen, Savoie would disagree with you. Power hasn't developed his man strength yet which is to be expected from a 20yo. The reason he's up is that he's better than any other options. They're fine with him working on his defensive game while flourishing in transition and offensively. Guess he's going to br lambasted as another in the long litany of big Sabres defensemen that weren't physical
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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Nobody is asking Power to be Scott Steven's... but there is zero excuse the guy can't throw his body into a man along the boards when fighting for the puck. No reason he can't push on a player in front of net.
Your premise is that Power should be/stay in Rochester until he's about at his peak physically. That's going to take at least another 3-4 years. That's not reasonable. He may need to work on other aspects of his game, and maybe even need to be in Rochester right now for that reason alone (it's open to debate for me). That however, is an issue likely resolved within a year or so before he's back...and it will have NOTHING to do with whether he's at his physical peak.
Djp
Registered User
Smartly tying up a stick or pinning a guy out of the play is effective defense. There are plenty of guys who would do that and weren't killers. Power doesn't need to murder someone, just engage. He watches a lot of plays around his own net.
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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Engage. That is the word.
How many D prospects that aren't physical in juniors or college come into the league as teenagers and develop a physical aspect to their game before they are 22 or 23? It just doesn't really happen very often.
Folks saw 6'6" and thought "physical presence", but anyone that watched him in college knew not to expect much in the way of physical play, at least at the start.
We should all keep in mind watching these games that Ryan Johnson is a year and half older than Power, just for some perspective.
I am not saying that wanting Power to develop some physicality to his game isn't warranted, just pointing out the reality of the situation. Give the kid time, and while he may never be a bruising defenseman, he will likely learn to use his size and weight to add a physical element to his game as he matures.
EichHart
Registered User
Took hedman awhile too. You don’t really get your man strength until 25/26
Gabrielor
Registered User
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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If you're 6'6 and in college and you didn't use any physicality at all... im not sure I have high hopes you are going to develop it. I just want basic physicality and engagement as Chain stated. He is weak on the puck and just doesn't have that mentality.
Engagement is different than physicality though.
Guys like Lidstrom and Niedermayer were always engaged without really having much of a physical game and were two of the best defenders in the world.
"Throwing his body into that man on the boards" is initiating a physical battle that you had better to be ready for the retaliation that is coming when you instigate that contact.
I stated that Power struggles in his own end and referenced his D-zone coverage, which engaging players in the crease is a part of. He has a ton to learn and absolutely needs to be better in that regard, but the conversation was about physical play, which we need to differentiate.
Power was 6'6" in college, but he was 17 years old when his college career started and 19 when it ended. You are expecting him to be more physical than a guy like Johnson because he is larger, but that isn't necessarily how it works with young prospects as they are learning to play and develop their own individual games. They learn different aspects of the game at different rates/times. Assuming someone has to play a certain way because they are taller is flawed.
Guys like Lidstrom and Niedermayer were always engaged without really having much of a physical game and were two of the best defenders in the world.
"Throwing his body into that man on the boards" is initiating a physical battle that you had better to be ready for the retaliation that is coming when you instigate that contact.
I stated that Power struggles in his own end and referenced his D-zone coverage, which engaging players in the crease is a part of. He has a ton to learn and absolutely needs to be better in that regard, but the conversation was about physical play, which we need to differentiate.
Power was 6'6" in college, but he was 17 years old when his college career started and 19 when it ended. You are expecting him to be more physical than a guy like Johnson because he is larger, but that isn't necessarily how it works with young prospects as they are learning to play and develop their own individual games. They learn different aspects of the game at different rates/times. Assuming someone has to play a certain way because they are taller is flawed.
Think of the difference between say peak Tallinder vs. peak McKee. Both were good at defense but Tallinder's game was very much about smartly using his stick and positioning to deny plays rather than physically overpowering someone. McKee was much more about contact and while also good at denying plays with his stick, was the more physical of the two. Power to progress is going to need to add elements of what Tallinder did - pinning guys out, getting to and disrupting sticks, etc... He does not have the natural aggression in his game to simply become a knee breaker... it's not in his nature.
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
Being bigger than most players growing up is detrimental to being physical in hockey. You tend to draw more penalties so if you're one of the best players the coaches generally ask you to tone your play down.
debaser66
Registered User
- Mar 10, 2012
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I guess is more about personality, look at Chara and the fuming look he had, or dirty Pronger. Dahlin is not that tall but he got that mean streak in him.
He just seems not engaged enough in his own zone were it is required to get in contact. I remember early in the season when he tried to hit a player half of his size and bounced off him.
He just needs to get the finesse to pin down players with skill and tying down sticks as some people mentioned.
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
Mentality definitely plays a role, some are naturally mean or can flip that switch, others just aren't. Being tall and lanky isn't always good as smaller players with a lower center of gravity can give them fits as the balance and leverage work against them
Der Jaeger
Generational EBUG
I think the defense is close to set in a very good way.
Dahlin is the #1 and a Norris candidate. Power isn’t going to be a killer but he could be Bouwmeester with better offensive skills. Samuelsson is a defensive eraser with some physicality. Ryan Johnson could be a better version of Pysyk.
The Adams just needs to add gritty, mobile 3rd pairing defenders to round out the group. Guys like Ian Cole and Brendan Smith.
Dahlin is the #1 and a Norris candidate. Power isn’t going to be a killer but he could be Bouwmeester with better offensive skills. Samuelsson is a defensive eraser with some physicality. Ryan Johnson could be a better version of Pysyk.
The Adams just needs to add gritty, mobile 3rd pairing defenders to round out the group. Guys like Ian Cole and Brendan Smith.
Should KA stick with what we have for next season -
Samuelsson/RyJo - Dahlin
Power - Jokiharju
RyJo/Samuelsson - Clifton
EJ or another vet 1-2 yr FA signing
Or should he still go for another upgrade -
Samuelsson/RyJo - Dahlin
Power - multi year FA signing
RyJo/Samuelsson - Jokiharju
Clifton
I only bring it up because any/all of Pesce, Hanifin, and Matt Roy will be UFAs, and it looks like all three will be on the move due to rebuild drama (Cal) or cap restrictions and cheap replacements (Car and LA).
Samuelsson/RyJo - Dahlin
Power - Jokiharju
RyJo/Samuelsson - Clifton
EJ or another vet 1-2 yr FA signing
Or should he still go for another upgrade -
Samuelsson/RyJo - Dahlin
Power - multi year FA signing
RyJo/Samuelsson - Jokiharju
Clifton
I only bring it up because any/all of Pesce, Hanifin, and Matt Roy will be UFAs, and it looks like all three will be on the move due to rebuild drama (Cal) or cap restrictions and cheap replacements (Car and LA).
Djp
Registered User
If he’s shopping for a trade or a UFAsigning then Jokiharju is likely traded.
if they gave Power a bridge of like $5M for 3 yrs taking him to summer 27. they could have had more space. To play with in this time.
cap space is going to be tight in 25-26 and 26-27.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
The problem isn't Power...the problem is the GM who doesn't give his coach enough good, experienced players so he has to play a literal kid 23 minutes a night. Power will be more than fine once he develops.
It's too bad they're putting so much pressure on him by putting him in a role he's not ready for -- that's bad management.
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