Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Sabresfansince1980]

Or he comes back, plays like garbage but can't go on ltir because he's 'fine' and you're stuck with him.

This is the biggest risk. He wants to play but the front office wants him to be "injured".

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

This Cozens slump is irritating me. I have been patient. But He is firmly 3C at the moment and doing a bad job. I know the face injury, but he also stunk playing at RW while Tuch was out. His play is especially bothering me as we start to talk about a Mitts extension and cap implications. If we start to skimp on Mitts, or shorten his deal because of the Cozens deal, and he doesn't get his game back together, I am going to be pissed.

Regardless Mitts/Tommers are playing like 1a/1b centers. I am high really high on both their games right now. For Cozens not to be relegated to 3C he will have to play like a top 10/15 C in the league. Right now Cozens future as a top 6 with this team seems to be as a winger only.

Also, JJP at the moment....WOW! The kid has been phenomenal. You're talking Quinn, but maybe not giving credit to the other side of that line.

If Cozens production was all because of Quinn he doesn't deserve the 7 million he signed for. That should goto Quinn. Drivers deserve the money, passengers who take advantage of the ride share program should be paid less and not considered core.

I'm sorry Cozens but do better. You are quickly climbing whipping boy status because you actually deserve it.

 

[Chainshot]

Isn't there enough complaint of an aging player on the roster who is clearly at the end without adding another?

 

[DeletedUser539]

Kane over VO improves this team than we could make a trade for a defensive shutdown c like maybe Krebs and few additions but right now the team needs to transition to win now what better way than showtime captain clutch himself 3 time winner Hart conn Smythe he played injured last year still put up decent numbers also had ppg+ seasons the years prior we aren't winning right now and it's not like we have anyone better that he will replace its an upgrade

 

[Jim Bob]

The reason why the Kane gamble is wild to me:

The most NHL games played by a player after hip resurfacing surgery is 37 games by Ed Jovanovski (source: today's xBuffalo pod).

That is also why giving him a 2 year deal is just lighting money on fire to me.

 

[joshjull]

The reason why the Kane gamble is wild to me:

The most NHL games played by a player after hip resurfacing surgery is 37 games by Ed Jovanovski (source: today's xBuffalo pod).

That is also why giving him a 2 year deal is just lighting money on fire to me.

This is the crux of it.

No one comes back from that surgery.

 

[Chainshot]

We have no idea that him with this surgery is going to be "better than Krebs or VO" right now. That's an assumption that does not fit with the history of people who have had this surgery.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

We have no idea that him with this surgery is going to be "better than Krebs or VO" right now. That's an assumption that does not fit with the history of people who have had this surgery.

But we do know that it will bring a lot of people to the games in Buffalo who haven't watched a hockey game in 8 years. That's got to be the primary reason to bring him in -- as others have said, it's a "put asses in the seats" move.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

I think their camp doesn’t want to sign a team friendly contract then have him get traded.

in this summer mitts could be a big trade chip.

This is likely going to be a very unpopular take. But I would rather move Cozens than Mitts in that scenario. Not that I think Cozens is a dud. But Mitts game right now is as good as we had ever hoped for with DC. It isn't like Mitts is this 28 year old who finally figured it out. He is 24 to Cozens 22.

Trading Mitts and continuing to hope Cozens becomes Mitts is a gamble that the roster has no reason to make. Thompson/Mitts is about as good as most teams would hope for out of a 1a/1b center pairing. For Cozens to break into that mix he would have to firmly be a top 10 center in the league.

The roster needs more players that are really good today, not more players that could be good tomorrow. We have 100 prospects all over the world that might be good someday. At some point we have to put together a team that can win in the NHL in the here and now.

I am not advocating we trade Cozens. I am certainly not giving up on him. But if you are going to be dangling the idea of Mitts being a trade prospect, I would actually prefer we trade Cozens.

 

[Jim Bob]

But we do know that it will bring a lot of people to the games in Buffalo who haven't watched a hockey game in 8 years. That's got to be the primary reason to bring him in -- as others have said, it's a "put asses in the seats" move.

I doubt that he sells enough tickets and jerseys to cover his salary this season if he is ineffective and does not bring life to the PP.

Attendance is an issue because of ticket costs and the up and down performance of the team on the ice.

Some of Kane's friends and family will buy a few tickets. But, it won't be millions of dollars of new ticket and merch sales in all likelihood. Especially if he is a shell of his former self and is on IR after 15-20 games.

 

[Chainshot]

But we do know that it will bring a lot of people to the games in Buffalo who haven't watched a hockey game in 8 years. That's got to be the primary reason to bring him in -- as others have said, it's a "put asses in the seats" move.

For how long? Two weeks? Three? They've been a turd at home and this sort of low-brow attempt to pander to the masses won't succeed if the product on the ice does not improve. And the improvement on the ice is going to be very much in question if (when) Kane's unable to perform due to his condition.

Everything else about the guy that I don't like aside, the surgery recovery risk to sign a player that does not address skills lacking in the forward group right now - and in fact seems redundant with parts that people already don't like - is foolish. If this is the plan, it's stupid.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

This is likely going to be a very unpopular take. But I would rather move Cozens than Mitts in that scenario. Not that I think Cozens is a dud. But Mitts game right now is as good as we had ever hoped for with DC. It isn't like Mitts is this 28 year old who finally figured it out. He is 24 to Cozens 22.

Trading Mitts and continuing to hope Cozens becomes Mitts is a gamble that the roster has no reason to make. Thompson/Mitts is about as good as most teams would hope for out of a 1a/1b center pairing. For Cozens to break into that mix he would have to firmly be a top 10 center in the league.

The roster needs more players that are really good today, not more players that could be good tomorrow. We have 100 prospects all over the world that might be good someday. At some point we have to put together a team that can win in the NHL in the here and now.

I am not advocating we trade Cozens. I am certainly not giving up on him. But if you are going to be dangling the idea of Mitts being a trade prospect, I would actually prefer we trade Cozens.

I'd even go a step further and say that trading either of them is way down the list of options right now. Trading/waiving any of Krebs, Olofsson, Bryson, a goalie, any two FW prospects should be at the top of the list, to make way for the Lindholms, Sturms, or Hathaways of the league.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

a few thoughts if it happens...

-It could help PP2, L3, leadership, etc
-Mystifying after the whole Eichel medical ordeal then they sign Kane, maybe there hip/bone doc/insurance ppl are more optimistic than neck spine ones.
-Ride Share drivers in Buffalo are against this deal...
-If it is pr driven, I don't know many in South Buffalo that can still afford to go to a Sabres game
-The Krebs thing has to be related in some way, roster spot, trade, injury, Roch ?
-Maybe they alao find a taker on Oloffson or waive him to Roch.

I agree but a couple of things.

- I think the org would be fine with Thompson or Dahlin having the surgery Eichel wanted. What they didn't want to do was have him have it done and lose leverage in getting the return they wanted in a trade. Let the receiving team manage the risk/rehab.

- Part of the Eichel trade was to protect the culture/fix the locker room. The more I spend time with the PK88 signing rumors the more it makes me uncomfortable. One of the women in question around Kane is a friend of the family. So I certainly have additional feelings. But even if you don't agree with the allegations, all the talk around Kane, Chicago, and the allegations was....not good. I struggle how an org can say "Eichel is a cancer here" and just 2 seasons later bring in Pat Kane?

 

[HOOats]

Or he comes back, plays like garbage but can't go on ltir because he's 'fine' and you're stuck with him.

Fortunately for us, injury diagnosis and corresponding roster moves are almost entirely under the jurisdiction of the team's doctors and front office.

If his hip procedure is the guaranteed career death sentence that some are claiming, there is not a scenario where he comes here and "plays like garbage but can't go on LTIR because he's 'fine." If he's garbage it's because he's done, and he will go on LTIR until he officially retires. There is no "stuck with him" scenario.

 

[Tatanka]

If he can't play it'll be due to his hip and we'll put him on LTIR and clear his cap hit. Waiving will never come into play. The two scenarios are: he signs and plays fine; or he signs, is physically unable to perform, and gets paid while off the cap on LTIR until his deal ends.

There is zero risk besides Terry's millions and the opportunity cost of taking on Kane in lieu of a more reliable option.

There is a risk of adding another defensive hole to a roster that already has a few. Kane would have to match his late 20’s production to mask that. I don’t think he has that much left based on watching him here in Chicago before he was traded.

 

[Jim Bob]

For how long? Two weeks? Three? They've been a turd at home and this sort of low-brow attempt to pander to the masses won't succeed if the product on the ice does not improve. And the improvement on the ice is going to be very much in question if (when) Kane's unable to perform due to his condition.

Everything else about the guy that I don't like aside, the surgery recovery risk to sign a player that does not address skills lacking in the forward group right now - and in fact seems redundant with parts that people already don't like - is foolish. If this is the plan, it's stupid.

The absolute dream-level best case scenario is that Kane on the right halfwall on PP1 ignites things with his ability to get passes across the seam and into TNT's wheelhouse. That is one skill they are lacking with this forward group and it could really open up PP1 as right now it's 99% about Dahlin setting TNT up for a one timer and everyone knows that is what they are trying to do.

Kane could, in theory, make PP1 more than a one trick pony.

So, while I think it is lighting money on fire and unlikely to work out as they hope, I could envision that being the thought process.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Multi-year is bad. 1 year at 7M is preferable to 2 years at 3.5M.

How do we plan on giving spots to young guys next year? Skinner, Mitts, Tuch, Thompson, Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Greenway...8 spots of your top 9. It already is going to be tough to incorporate more than 1 of Benson/Savoie/Kulich/Rosen.

I'm tired of running young guys, I don't care anymore if there are no spots and they have to earn it. These aged veteran teams are often giving it to the Sabres, both expansion draft teams have had more success with aged veterans.

It's time we start filling our roster with proven winners like Kane and not Okposo's and Giregensons.

 

[Chainshot]

The absolute dream-level best case scenario is that Kane on the right halfwall on PP1 ignites things with his ability to get passes across the seam and into TNT's wheelhouse. That is one skill they are lacking with this forward group and it could really open up PP1 as right now it's 99% about Dahlin setting TNT up for a one timer and everyone knows that is what they are trying to do.

Kane could, in theory, make PP1 more than a one trick pony.

So, while I think it is lighting money on fire and unlikely to work out as they hope, I could envision that being the thought process.

So we have to bank on him being the exception to how players have "recovered" from this surgery just in terms of game participation AND that in his current state is able to be effective at the PP while bucking several years of having his line's teeth kicked in defensively due not in small part to his disinterest in playing in his own zone?

Yeah, that's not a risk at all...

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

For how long? Two weeks? Three? They've been a turd at home and this sort of low-brow attempt to pander to the masses won't succeed if the product on the ice does not improve. And the improvement on the ice is going to be very much in question if (when) Kane's unable to perform due to his condition.

Everything else about the guy that I don't like aside, the surgery recovery risk to sign a player that does not address skills lacking in the forward group right now - and in fact seems redundant with parts that people already don't like - is foolish. If this is the plan, it's stupid.

Agreed 100%. I'd add that even if Kane didn't just get the surgery, I'm, STILL not sure it would make any more sense, considering the actual needs that this team has, not to mention his age and quality of play the last 3 or 4 years.

It's infuriating that they draft so well but seem clueless on how to build a team. So many unforced errors.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm tired of running young guys, I don't care anymore if there are no spots and they have to earn it. These aged veteran teams are often giving it to the Sabres, both expansion draft teams have had more success with aged veterans.

It's time we start filling our roster with proven winners like Kane and not Okposo's and Giregensons.

How is "proven winner" Erik Johnson working out right now?

 

[Chainshot]

Agreed 100%. I'd add that even if Kane didn't just get the surgery, I'm, STILL not sure it would make any more sense, considering the actual needs that this team has, not to mention his age and quality of play the last 3 or 4 years.

It's infuriating that they draft so well but seem clueless on how to build a team. So many unforced errors.

I've carped about them not having enough settled offense players, guys who generate shots and chances off the cycle instead of the rush. That was why I was so keen on Meier last year - that's so much his game. They don't have enough guys who get inside and don't have enough who will take themselves and the puck to the net. So the solution to that is to... get another small guy who lives off the rush? What is the purpose there, Kevyn? Paying Kane AND Olofsson to be ineffective scoring wingers a combined salary that Meier makes in New Jersey this year is my expectation.

Yes, for those about to "but actually" over the cost of the Meier acquisition, it was high and in prospect types not regarded as highly in the Sabres' stable. The point remains that we could be seeing them sink almost the same amount of money into NOT getting any of that style of play and NOT fixing things that are already wrong.

This seems worse than a Hall and a washed Staal level of bad roster construction.

 

[HOOats]

The absolute dream-level best case scenario is that Kane on the right halfwall on PP1 ignites things with his ability to get passes across the seam and into TNT's wheelhouse. That is one skill they are lacking with this forward group and it could really open up PP1 as right now it's 99% about Dahlin setting TNT up for a one timer and everyone knows that is what they are trying to do.

Kane could, in theory, make PP1 more than a one trick pony.

So, while I think it is lighting money on fire and unlikely to work out as they hope, I could envision that being the thought process.

Yeah, to me it's worth a shot to get literally the best right halfwall player of his generation. Even if he's turning 35, even if he's coming off a sketchy procedure. His highlights from the last two years are still pretty damn slick over there. I understand the odds re: his hip, but he's a top 25 player in the history of the game - if anyone can do it, he can and he's going to get a shot somewhere.

Do people think replacing Vic with Kane will materially hurt us 5v5? We can make another move in addition to this one (including getting Quinn back in 6 weeks) to help our 5v5. It seems like a lot of the apprehension is based on thinking Adams believes this is a silver bullet for all that ails us. If he does, I agree he's mistaken. But I'm not viewing this as more than a free player who might be much better than one we're currently rolling out.

 

[Dubi Doo]

If Adams signs Kane to a multi-year deal, then my optimism toward him is going to take a hit.

I've already been critical of his lack of moves toward revamping the bottom 6. I loathed the Jost contract, and I wasn't pleased with the Okposo signing. Adding Kane as a likely depth scoring option in the bottom 6 would really make me shake my head. The bottom-6 would not be what I envisioned at all. In fact, it'd go against what I wanted in a bottom 6; Speed and tenacity.

Geez. Imagine having a ton of assets and cap space to work with, and using it to sign Jost, Okposo, and Kane for the bottom 6. I'm not one to complain about the abundance of cap space. That's a good thing. I will, however, complain about how Adams is choosing to use that cap space in team building.

Big yikes. I'm not liking these rumors at all. Hopefully, that's all they are- rumors with zero substance. There seems to be a lot of smoke, though.

 

[Sabre the Win]

How is "proven winner" Erik Johnson working out right now?

Great, you think he's been bad defensively?

 

[Ehran]

If they sign Kane they'll sit back for the next 6 - 9 months thinking "SEE HOW HARD WE WORKED! We've upgraded this team. No need to do more until we see how it all shakes out."

And essentially nothing will change. Players in Rochester will be c-blocked because nobody in management is going to be willing to sit "their guy" for a rookie. It would be too embarrassing.

No other FAs will be brought in because "look at Kane, outside players aren't the solution!". Quality 3rd and 4th line players will be ignored because they brought in someone that will SELL TICKETS!!!!

If you think a 35 year old hockey player who was definitively on the downslope of his career, coming off hip surgery, is the answer to this team's problems, I'm not sure anything will dissuade you from your opinion.

This is a repeat of the cycle of thought that has caused a 12-year playoff drought in a league where half the F'ing teams make the playoff every year.