joshjull
Registered User
I’m curious why you believe that. He certainly got his chance after winning a power struggle with LaFontaine.
Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)
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- Feb 3, 2015
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I don't know. I'd bet that the number of hard drinking, white lightning riding names on the cup far outnumber the responsible drinkers and non-drug users on the cup.
This is hockey after all.
OkimLom
Registered User
- May 3, 2010
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Regarding the Girgensons Comparison: It was more of a comment on the players being low event hockey players.
I think Joki has shown himself to be a guy that can be useful on a team, but he's not a guy that produces enough offense for me that says he's a 2nd Pairing-type of defenseman. I expect a bit more offense production from a guy on my 2nd pairing, whether they are a facilitator of offense or not. I think he is a guy that any team looking to upgrade their 3rd pairing would be wise to check on the availability of.
If they party hard and don't prep hard, collectively, they tend to fail hard. Hell, a guy could be a blackout drunk and do something for his health like change his training or even go vegan and still be able to do things for a stretch of games to help a team win while being mildly distracting to guys who prepare well vs. the distraction getting pulled out of snowbanks where he has faceplanted nightly by local PD or FD folks has on guys who then think that's just the way it's done so they try it too.
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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Well I just think he came out of the "tank" with 2 pretty decent seasons and wasn't able to build off those. He had a vision and we never got to see that materialize. I'm pretty confident he would of built a playoff team.
Kucherov
Zman5778
Moderator
I'm pretty sure that Joki's most common two partners the last 2 seasons have been Dahlin and Power. Obviously those 2 are going to drive the offense way, way more than Joki ever will.
I'm not saying he's some sort of stud 2nd pair type.......lord knows he shouldn't be on the PK.......but he's a guy who can eat 16/18/20 min of 5v5 time and generally be fine doing so. He's shown he can pair well with the mobile, pass-first types.
What we don't really know is if his game pairs well with a defense-first type who will rely on Joki to be the first-pass guy, which would then theoretically increase his offensive production.
If we didn't already have 3 mobile, pass-first types as well as Sammy who is pretty underrated at puck moving.....and Clifton who can skate the puck up well.....I'd be all about signing Joker long term. But he's redundant on this team, and I'd much rather see a defense-first type in his place. To me, that doesn't mean Joker is BAD, it just means I don't see a fit for him long-term here.
I am very curious about what the plan is for defense this summer:
Not moving: Dahlin, Power
After that though: Samuelsson, Clifton, Joker, Johnson.
I'm assuming, despite comments from Adams, they want to upgrade their top 4. (as evidenced by their rumored pursuits of hanafin/Tanev)
I'd probably argue they have 2 top 4 d-man and a bunch of bottom pair guys (could make the case of Samuelsson/Joker to be fringe mid pair guys). Dahlin is good enough to simply carry whoever he plays with, Power is not at this point.
The UFA market is actually pretty ripe with the kind of supporting RH D this summer (Pesce, Dumba, Roy, Demelo, Tanev, etc), so, it could make that sense to at least try to go that route.
But, that of course, makes a log jam. It'd be 5 d-men making over 3M (Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Clifton, and UFA signed) with Joker probably looking at 3-4M deal. And Ryan Johnson showing he deserves a spot (with Bryson with 1.9M QO due as well). My guess is they try to do with Bryson what they did with Jost (don't issue a QO but try to sign him)
But still, a lot of capital invested here and probably a big contract being added this summer. We could quite easily have the most expensive D in the league next year (and still struggle in our own zone mightily)
Not moving: Dahlin, Power
After that though: Samuelsson, Clifton, Joker, Johnson.
I'm assuming, despite comments from Adams, they want to upgrade their top 4. (as evidenced by their rumored pursuits of hanafin/Tanev)
I'd probably argue they have 2 top 4 d-man and a bunch of bottom pair guys (could make the case of Samuelsson/Joker to be fringe mid pair guys). Dahlin is good enough to simply carry whoever he plays with, Power is not at this point.
The UFA market is actually pretty ripe with the kind of supporting RH D this summer (Pesce, Dumba, Roy, Demelo, Tanev, etc), so, it could make that sense to at least try to go that route.
But, that of course, makes a log jam. It'd be 5 d-men making over 3M (Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Clifton, and UFA signed) with Joker probably looking at 3-4M deal. And Ryan Johnson showing he deserves a spot (with Bryson with 1.9M QO due as well). My guess is they try to do with Bryson what they did with Jost (don't issue a QO but try to sign him)
But still, a lot of capital invested here and probably a big contract being added this summer. We could quite easily have the most expensive D in the league next year (and still struggle in our own zone mightily)
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
I don't think he can really have a plan -- more line many plans, based on what he's able to do. He needs to explore every opportunity and develop a new plan for next season based on which moves he's able to make.
You can plan to sign a RHD UFA, for instance, but you have to have backup plans when that inevitably fails. And then you need another contingency plan for if/when your second preference fails.
It's a lot of juggling...I wish we knew more about what his actual options are so we can judge him better. He looks like a failure every step of the way so far, but who knows what he's trying to do (he could actually be way worse than he seems!)
He's basically playing scratch hockey while being deployed as Buffalo's defensive skewed partner for Dahlin. Late in the game they double shift Power with Dahlin while behind. That's a 2nd pair defensemen by any reasonable metric.
They need to ADD either another mid tier RHD like him and hope Dahlin can work his magic to tilt the top pair, or someone better than him as 1RHD.
Clifton was brought in to be that guy, and that didn't quite work out.
Their other problem is that Power-Jokiharju has just not worked out well the last two years, and Dahlin-Jokiharju has been strong.
Again, how would he 'build' off those pretty decent 81 and 78 point seasons? He ran through the extra assets the team had.
The notable remaining were: Nylander, Guhle, Borgen, Asplund, 2017 1st & 2nds.
That's enough to fill out two of the defenders maybe, Jokiharju + Montour. Your top 2 LHD are Gorges and 22 year old McCabe.
Also side note: if 81 & 78 are pretty decent how's Buffalo doing now?
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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They were pretty decent coming out of a complete teardown.
And I don't know why you think Tim Murray would only be looking to trade futures. 3verything was on the table with Murray
Because there's not a way to make a thin team better by trading out of it's roster. They needed more roster players, not to swap them around.
Unless the plan was to trade Eichel and Reinhart for decent veterans and make one or two swings at the playoffs with an older team. But that would be such a bassackwards strategy.
toddkaz
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- Nov 25, 2022
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VO for a 7th
Okposo for a 5th
Girgensons for a 3rd
Thats my prediction. Darcy got a 1st for Gustad using some creativity. I would like to think Girgensons could get us better than a 3rd but Adams is a putz.
Adams will say the off season is when the team will make improvements but then when free agents hits he will make his NHL fringe player signings.
Okposo for a 5th
Girgensons for a 3rd
Thats my prediction. Darcy got a 1st for Gustad using some creativity. I would like to think Girgensons could get us better than a 3rd but Adams is a putz.
Adams will say the off season is when the team will make improvements but then when free agents hits he will make his NHL fringe player signings.
- Jun 15, 2010
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Oh, I if I had to win one game, I would choose both over Joki 10 out of 10 times.
I would trade Joki for Whitecloud without even thinking about it. Whitecloud is significantly better IMO.
He is at his worst when he has the puck on his stick. I don't think of him as a puck moving defenseman because that is probably the worst part of his game, IMO. He struggles to connect passes when he is under pressure on both ends of the ice. This year, he has turned it over less than last year, but he still turns it over. Last night I counted at least 5 times where he either iced the puck, threw it up the wall where an opposing Dman kept it in the zone and continued to pressure us, or just lost the puck in the O-zone.
At his best, he is an ok defender. Based on how he's played this year, I wouldn't be upset if they brought him back as a depth option on a short term deal, but to keep relying on him for top 4 minutes will just perpetuate the mediocrity.
Right now we have Dahlin. We have one reliable, top quality defenseman.
After that, we have the hope that Power will get there as well at some point.
Sammy is good defensively, but also not very good with the puck, and injury prone.
RyJo has promise, but he has been a little shaky at times as the season has gone on. Still developing.
Clifton brings some physicality and has started to round into form a little bit, but I don't see him as a viable top 4d for the short or long term.
Our defense is subpar. Now that we're getting better goaltending and the forwards are focusing a little more on dzone coverage, it's really the biggest thing they need to improve in order for this team to take the next step. Not the only thing, but by far the biggest thing. I really don't understand why anyone would argue against this.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
The only problem with the defense is that it's built to be good in 2028, not 2024.
toddkaz
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- Nov 25, 2022
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My hope is something with term who could be effective who might not be one of the oft-recycled candidates. Since Dahlin can play well on RD and Power has done some of that too, it widens out the possible search. There is also the possibility of shifting Jokiharju for another player of similar age/skill/handedness.
Re-reading Adams' Athletic comments, it sounds like they want role fit and that's going to require someone who can PK and provide the takeout half of the equation. It sounds like he gets it.
This would be somewhere to find a value add through their analytics people and also IMO to find a better assistant to handle their blueline. I don't think they have to just limit themselves to a right shot only individual.
Der Jaeger
Generational EBUG
I'd still like to see Adams make futures type moves for prospects and not just picks.
Rosen and E. Johnson (50%) to Edmonton for Broberg and 2025 4th
Edmonton gets a solid playoff rental on the Blueline for half price. The Sabres trade from a position of strength to need in the prospects. Edmonton stated they won't trade Broberg for a rental. Rosen is stuck in a logjam. Broberg isn't likely to live up to potential, but he could be a Tallinder style mobile defender who covers for Dahlin and Power.
Girgensons (50%) to Boston for Beecher.
Adams gives Girgensons his shot at the playoffs for the first time. Boston can LTIR their way to the playoffs, and Girgensons is a Bruins style playoff 4th liner. Beecher doesn't have a spot in Boston, but he could be a power 4C for the Sabres and help Adams re-construct the bottom 6.
Okposo to the Rangers for 2025 7th
Adams does right by his captain, and gives Okposo one last playoff shot.
Olofsson (50%) to Nashville for 2026 7th
Adams retains 50% just to get a pick for Olofsson. He's a wasted asset, as Adams could've trade Olofsson with retention in the off-season, after his 28 goal season, and got more than a 7th. Nashville is fighting to make the playoffs and don't have a great power play.
Post TDL:
LW: Skinner, Greenway, Benson, Robinson
C: Thompson, Mittelstadt, Krebs, Beecher
RW: Tuch, Peterka, Cozens, Jost
LD: Power, Johnson, Bryson, Broberg
RD: Dahlin, Jokiharju, Clifton
G: UPL, Comrie
I'd also try to eat salary on a forward or two who can pull 13/14 position minutes for the Sabres to get some extra picks.
Rosen and E. Johnson (50%) to Edmonton for Broberg and 2025 4th
Edmonton gets a solid playoff rental on the Blueline for half price. The Sabres trade from a position of strength to need in the prospects. Edmonton stated they won't trade Broberg for a rental. Rosen is stuck in a logjam. Broberg isn't likely to live up to potential, but he could be a Tallinder style mobile defender who covers for Dahlin and Power.
Girgensons (50%) to Boston for Beecher.
Adams gives Girgensons his shot at the playoffs for the first time. Boston can LTIR their way to the playoffs, and Girgensons is a Bruins style playoff 4th liner. Beecher doesn't have a spot in Boston, but he could be a power 4C for the Sabres and help Adams re-construct the bottom 6.
Okposo to the Rangers for 2025 7th
Adams does right by his captain, and gives Okposo one last playoff shot.
Olofsson (50%) to Nashville for 2026 7th
Adams retains 50% just to get a pick for Olofsson. He's a wasted asset, as Adams could've trade Olofsson with retention in the off-season, after his 28 goal season, and got more than a 7th. Nashville is fighting to make the playoffs and don't have a great power play.
Post TDL:
LW: Skinner, Greenway, Benson, Robinson
C: Thompson, Mittelstadt, Krebs, Beecher
RW: Tuch, Peterka, Cozens, Jost
LD: Power, Johnson, Bryson, Broberg
RD: Dahlin, Jokiharju, Clifton
G: UPL, Comrie
I'd also try to eat salary on a forward or two who can pull 13/14 position minutes for the Sabres to get some extra picks.
I never hear about him in the GDT's any longer and on this board that's a huge accomplishment. Joker's been fine.
Beerz
Registered User
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Snippit
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2012
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I am convinced need first line talent. Skinner-Thompson-Tuch made us think we had a legit top line, but it was smoke and mirrors of 3 guys far out playing their career bests.
Maybe Thompson is still that guy…maybe Quinn or Benson could become those guys. I am not all that optimistic.
Maybe Thompson is still that guy…maybe Quinn or Benson could become those guys. I am not all that optimistic.
My Cozen Dylan
Registered User
thewookie1
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- Jan 21, 2015
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Old Navy Goat
Registered User
It's more than the assets, it's also managing a massive contract as there's no way he's signing for less than 11+mil
Gabrielor
Registered User
alright, gimme your won’t-moves, could-moves, and should-moves. This doesn’t include any pending ufas.
I have Sabres trade paralysis right now. I dk who to trade.
I have Sabres trade paralysis right now. I dk who to trade.
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