Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[HaNotsri]

We really need to start making trades big and small. Both the nhl roster and prospect pipeline needs to be balanced.
I think we can "sell" some quality players for picks and replace them with prospects as a worst case scenario.

In regards to Skinner, wouldn't he sign with Toronto asap after being bought out?
50% retention probably wouldn't be enough for them to take him but maybe there's something to explore.
I like Skinner but we can't have him, Peterka, Rosén and Kulich on the same roster.

 

[Mattilaus]

We really need to start making trades big and small. Both the nhl roster and prospect pipeline needs to be balanced.
I think we can "sell" some quality players for picks and replace them with prospects as a worst case scenario.

In regards to Skinner, wouldn't he sign with Toronto asap after being bought out?
50% retention probably wouldn't be enough for them to take him but maybe there's something to explore.
I like Skinner but we can't have him, Peterka, Rosén and Kulich on the same roster.

With what money? He isn't signing in Toronto for 900k a year.

 

[Gras]

With what money? He isn't signing in Toronto for 900k a year.

I doubt they would have interest to begin with but after Tavares contract is gone they would have some space but thats not until after the following season.

 

[HaNotsri]

With what money? He isn't signing in Toronto for 900k a year.

We've paid him enough for money not to be an issue. He probably wants to experience playoffs and winning games at this point.

 

[TageGod]

Yet he is substantially better than Thompson this year? I don't know how you can watch this team and come to the conclusion that Thompson is better than Mittelstadt on the boards, that's just an insane take to me. You may be correct in your assessment that Thompson has more game breaking ability, but this is because he is simply a physical freak, Mittelstadt plays a more intelligent and responsible game, to me that is more valuable than Thompson's game.

Last year, Thompson's flaws were evident but acceptable as he scored at an unprecedented rate. And to preface, I don't think it's all his fault as Skinner and Tuch are playing at a much lower level this year. However his quite frankly, brain-dead play this year is so tiring. If he can get back to the same level as last year, I'll agree with you, but until I see that Thompson back, Mittelstadt who has been our most consistent offensive and more importantly one of our most responsible forwards holds more value to me.

Substantially better is quite a stretch. He got off to a fast start to Tages slow start and injury. Tage is currently playing infinitely better than Mitts . He has a 9.5% shooting percentage with two previous years at 15+. That puts him at 26 goals, and he has had no luck for sure. If he wasn't snake bitten this post wouldn't even have been made. You can't actually watch Tage play hockey and think Mitts is better at possession or on the boards. FWIW, Cozens has to enter the zone for Mitts cuz he is not very good at it. Despite his PPG pace early, Mitts is trending back towards a 20-40 60 point player. He is not doing a good job of the things you say he excels at lately. Cozens is 100% the one making that line go.

 

[Man of Principles]

Larry Brooks is saying Necas may be available. If this has any truth to it, Adams needs to be all over it.

It may be complicated and salary may need to be shed somehow or another, but if there’s a swing to be taken, it should be for this player.

 

[StrompTroller]

Substantially better is quite a stretch. He got off to a fast start to Tages slow start and injury. Tage is currently playing infinitely better than Mitts . He has a 9.5% shooting percentage with two previous years at 15+. That puts him at 26 goals, and he has had no luck for sure. If he wasn't snake bitten this post wouldn't even have been made. You can't actually watch Tage play hockey and think Mitts is better at possession or on the boards. FWIW, Cozens has to enter the zone for Mitts cuz he is not very good at it. Despite his PPG pace early, Mitts is trending back towards a 20-40 60 point player. He is not doing a good job of the things you say he excels at lately. Cozens is 100% the one making that line go.

I know a lot of people on here don't want to agree or hear it but this is 100% true. Mitts is a fine player and I'm not throwing shade but Tage is the only one here with 1c upside and Cozens offers more future potential than Mitts. If I'm trading one the answer is obvious for me personally.

That being said I understand the response of "but Mitts is more of a 200 foot player etc etc". the reason he'd be availabe for me is because my offseason plan would be adding more of those types and not depending on a 7 million a year 60 point Mitts to provide it. Sell high and be smarter with who you add to this Charmin group.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

Substantially better is quite a stretch. He got off to a fast start to Tages slow start and injury. Tage is currently playing infinitely better than Mitts . He has a 9.5% shooting percentage with two previous years at 15+. That puts him at 26 goals, and he has had no luck for sure. If he wasn't snake bitten this post wouldn't even have been made. You can't actually watch Tage play hockey and think Mitts is better at possession or on the boards. FWIW, Cozens has to enter the zone for Mitts cuz he is not very good at it. Despite his PPG pace early, Mitts is trending back towards a 20-40 60 point player. He is not doing a good job of the things you say he excels at lately. Cozens is 100% the one making that line go.

If the goal is to balance the team, I think Mitts n Cozens have better all around games to be 200’ players, over Tage specifically.

I also think you are correct about Tage, which is why he’s the main piece for Brady. To me, the trio’s of Tage/Cuz/Mitts vs Brady/Cuz/Mitts is much tougher with Brady in it. As I stated earlier, I think Cuz/Mitts would gravitate towards Brady’s tougher game, as opposed to their softer game now.

The other package put together for Brady was mostly futures, limited cap going back…I don’t see Ottawa doing a futures package for him. Tage is a hockey trade for whatever reason they’d trade Brady.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Larry Brooks is saying Necas may be available. If this has any truth to it, Adams needs to be all over it.

It may be complicated and salary may need to be shed somehow or another, but if there’s a swing to be taken, it should be for this player.

Sorry, no cap space. Who are you getting rid of to fit him? We already have to get rid of one player just to fit in the cap in two years.

I know a lot of people on here don't want to agree or hear it but this is 100% true. Mitts is a fine player and I'm not throwing shade but Tage is the only one here with 1c upside and Cozens offers more future potential than Mitts. If I'm trading one the answer is obvious for me personally.

That being said I understand the response of "but Mitts is more of a 200 foot player etc etc". the reason he'd be availabe for me is because my offseason plan would be adding more of those types and not depending on a 7 million a year 60 point Mitts to provide it. Sell high and be smarter with who you add to this Charmin group.

I just think you may not be able to fit Mitts and Cozens and Tage. One likely has to go…for draft picks or prospects because we can’t fit any more players making real money.

 

[Chainshot]

It would be funny if after 2 seasons of it being mentioned, Necas and Mittelstadt are dealt for one another.

 

[Zman5778]

We're still mostly playing back-up goalies and still can't be competitive for more than a game or two at a time.

UPL hasn't been playing like a backup goalie for basically the entire year. Yeah, he's had a couple of rough games (NJD, CBJ, StL)......but we're getting legit, starting-quality goaltending out of him.

And we've been competitive in 90% of our games since CBJ blew our doors off.

Since getting curb-stomped by the CBJs, we've gone 14-10-1. 29 points in those 25 games. That is a 95/96 point pace......which if we did that the whole year, puts us right in the playoff mix.

 

[Zman5778]

I just think you may not be able to fit Mitts and Cozens and Tage. One likely has to go…for draft picks or prospects because we can’t fit any more players making real money.

I don't think that's true at all. I've done a cap breakdown before, and the way I worked it.....we can easily fit in Mitts on a Tage/DC-level deal and one more mid-range salary (akin to Rasmus Andersson's deal) until Skinner goes away. Then it's all about who we bridge, who we trade, who we get on good deals, etc.

 

[Zman5778]

It would be funny if after 2 seasons of it being mentioned, Necas and Mittelstadt are dealt for one another.

I am absolutely unsure how I'd feel about that deal. Necas is certainly the better offensive player, but Mitts is far better in the 200-foot style game.

And if Carolina is unwilling to pay Marty......would they pay Casey?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

UPL hasn't been playing like a backup goalie for basically the entire year. Yeah, he's had a couple of rough games (NJD, CBJ, StL)......but we're getting legit, starting-quality goaltending out of him.

And we've been competitive in 90% of our games since CBJ blew our doors off.

Since getting curb-stomped by the CBJs, we've gone 14-10-1. 29 points in those 25 games. That is a 95/96 point pace......which if we did that the whole year, puts us right in the playoff mix.

Playing against back-up goalies, not on our team. Sorry if the wording was confusing

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I don't think that's true at all. I've done a cap breakdown before, and the way I worked it.....we can easily fit in Mitts on a Tage/DC-level deal and one more mid-range salary (akin to Rasmus Andersson's deal) until Skinner goes away. Then it's all about who we bridge, who we trade, who we get on good deals, etc.

Every time I go over the numbers I see the same thing as you. This summer there will be around 3.5 mil in space after all known/probable re-signings. Q & P are the only bigger potential contracts to worry about after that (bridges until Skinner is gone). Then it's a matter of cap ceiling growth and shuffling others out for Benson, RyJo, Levi, etc.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I am absolutely unsure how I'd feel about that deal. Necas is certainly the better offensive player, but Mitts is far better in the 200-foot style game.

And if Carolina is unwilling to pay Marty......would they pay Casey?

No, not happening.

I don't think that's true at all. I've done a cap breakdown before, and the way I worked it.....we can easily fit in Mitts on a Tage/DC-level deal and one more mid-range salary (akin to Rasmus Andersson's deal) until Skinner goes away. Then it's all about who we bridge, who we trade, who we get on good deals, etc.

You’re completely wrong. Unless you out think we can pay Quinn and Peterka both something $2.25m n a bridge deal. Or you just trade away a big piece for draft picks/prospects.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Every time I go over the numbers I see the same thing as you. This summer there will be around 3.5 mil in space after all known/probable re-signings. Q & P are the only bigger potential contracts to worry about after that (bridges until Skinner is gone). Then it's a matter of cap ceiling growth and shuffling others out for Benson, RyJo, Levi, etc.

By “worry about” you mean “can’t fit”

 

[Der Jaeger]

Away for the weekend and saw the Brady Tkachuk mention.

I am all aboard that trade train. He's exactly what the team needs.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Not gona happen with Brady Tkachuk. He's a captain. Imagine we send captain away, oh wait

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

By “worry about” you mean “can’t fit”

They'll fit on bridges, just a matter of how much the cap goes up in the next couple years to see exactly what they can get. Greenway is the guy that might get squeezed out, but there is potential space by trading Joker/Clifton/random 4th line guys they shuffle out for ELCs like Kulich or Wahlberg.

 

[Gras]

They'll fit on bridges, just a matter of how much the cap goes up in the next couple years to see exactly what they can get. Greenway is the guy that might get squeezed out, but there is potential space by trading Joker/Clifton/random 4th line guys they shuffle out for ELCs like Kulich or Wahlberg.

I think Joker gets traded as an RFA this summer

 

[TehDoak]

Sorry, no cap space. Who are you getting rid of to fit him? We already have to get rid of one player just to fit in the cap in two years.


I just think you may not be able to fit Mitts and Cozens and Tage. One likely has to go…for draft picks or prospects because we can’t fit any more players making real money.

In the end, we shouldn't be giving long term money to non core forwards. We are locked into Thompson/Cozens for 7 years. It's fine to give Mittelstadt a mid term deal, no need for a 7/8 year deal. If Mittelstadt isn't open to that, then you can move on from him.

We don't have to do anything about Peterka/Quinn until next summer. Given the volume of skilled forwards behind them (Benson/Savoie/Kulich), Bridging is fine unless one has a massive year. My worry is Adams is warming up an 8 year deal for Peterka, because, you know, thats what he does.

The goal should be to get to the other side of the Skinner deal, that is the real albatross, with Power being a potential one, but far too early to tell on that yet.

 

[Zman5778]

You’re completely wrong. Unless you out think we can pay Quinn and Peterka both something $2.25m n a bridge deal. Or you just trade away a big piece for draft picks/prospects.

Alright. Here we go.

Until the end of 25/26:

Skinner/Tage/Cozens/Tuch/Benson: 28.943M
Dahlin/Clifton/Sammy/Power: 26.966M

So, that's a total of 55.909M. We know the cap is going up significantly the next 2 years. So I'm going to make my math easy and say that the cap for the 25/26 season is $90M.

So, what do we need? 2 goalies, 3 defensemen and 9 forwards.
What do we have to spend? 34.091M.

Let's get the "Easy" ones out of the way: Let's say we get 2 more guys on ELCs for forwards (between Savoie/Kulich/Rosen/Ostlund/Wahlberg....seems reasonable to be). So that's roughly 2M. Let's say 1M each for a random 7th D and a random 13th forward.

30.091 M left.

At this point, we're at:
Skinner/Tage/Tuch
???/???/Benson
ELC/???/ELC
???/???/???
6 forwards, 2 D and 2 goalies.

Let's do the goalies. My gut is telling me that UPL is signing something close to a 4x4 this offseason. Levi will need to be re-signed, but I can't imagine he gets anything other than a bridge. It'll probably be more than UPL's current bridge, but I can't imagine much more. Let's assume that we give him a touch more than is necessary -- $1.5M on a 3 year bridge.

24.591 M left.

6 forwards and 2 D.

Ryan Johnson will need a new deal. Will he go the Sammy route and take a long-term deal at lesser money or a bridge at Joker-like money? I'm guessing he does a Joker bridge: 2.5x3

22.091 M left.
6 forwards and 1 D to sign

So now we need to look at what exactly we need and who we need to sign.

At D -- still looking for that RHD to pair with Power.
At forward -- looking for 3 bottom line guys, with the need to factor in Quinn, Peterka and Mitts. Maybe a re-sign of Greenway.

So, let's first factor in Quinn and Peterka.

Quinn first. His injury-riddled year should help us get him a bridge at a reasonable number. There's a halfway decent comparable to him on the roster in Mitts. Coming off of his ELC, Mitts had a decent end to his ELC and earned a 2.5x3...though was in and out of the lineup in his 3rd ELC year. So that likely depressed his value some. For purposes of this experiment, I'm giving Quinn a 3 x 3.

Peterka. En route to a 25-30 goal season in year 2. If we assume some progression, we're looking at 30-35 goals in year 3. Quinn just signed a 3.5 x 3. Peterka will get more. How much? Welllll, Necas in CAR signed a 2x$3M bridge coming off of a 71 point year. Matthew Tkachuk signed a 3 x $7M bridge deal. Peterka will likely go in the middle. I'm saying 3 x $4.5M.

14.591 M left.
4 forwards and 1 D to sign.

We've basically got the top 6 done and 7 out of 9 top 9 spots.

Krebs' bridge deal isn't going to get north of Mitts', and might not even hit that. 3 years x $2M

12.591 M left.
Skinner/Tage/Tuch
Peterka/Cozens/Quinn
Savoie/Krebs/Benson
ELC/???/???
VET

Sammy/Dahlin
Power/???
RyJo/Clifton
VET

UPL
Levi

In this scenario, we've got some flexibility with where we give a big deal to (given that we've given my "mid-range" deal to UPL). If we give it to Mitts, that'll leave us with around $4.5M of cap space to sign a couple of 4th-liners and a defenseman. Under that scenario, my bet is that RyJo becomes Power's partner and we get a moderately-priced 3rd pair LHD......and there's also a real possibility that we put ELC Novikov as the 3rd pair LHD.

So it's tight........but it's completely reasonable to sign Mitts and Cozens and Tage.....and still field a competitive roster. It's not easy and would require Adams/whoever to find a good complementary Dman and sign the right 4th liners.

But it's certainly possible........and is not a scenario to be dismissed out of hand.

 

[Irie]

I think Joker gets traded as an RFA this summer

I think the coaching staff Is re-evaluating Joker now. He has been on a really nice development upswingthis season, and has been playing big minutes on the top pairing on the only 3 game win streak of the season.

It is a tough call. Having Johnson and Power in the mix for the future and both being pretty soft... keeping Jokiharju around who also isn't really physical, makes for an underwhelmingly soft D core, but at the same time, trading a versatile RHD that can play up and down the line-up who is starting to break out is a move that is really hard to make.

If I am Adams, I re-sign Joker, even if it is just on a one year deal and keep him around to see if his development continues into next season. It isn't like he has a ton of value right now, so selling him off is hardly worth the risk.

 

[Gras]

I think the coaching staff Is re-evaluating Joker now. He has been on a really nice development upswingthis season, and has been playing big minutes on the top pairing on the only 3 game win streak of the season.

It is a tough call. Having Johnson and Power in the mix for the future and both being pretty soft... keeping Jokiharju around who also isn't really physical, makes for an underwhelmingly soft D core, but at the same time, trading a versatile RHD that can play up and down the line-up who is starting to break out is a move that is really hard to make.

If I am Adams, I re-sign Joker, even if it is just on a one year deal and keep him around to see if his development continues into next season. It isn't like he has a ton of value right now, so selling him off is hardly worth the risk.

You use him in a package to upgrade, or swap gor a forward RFA that may be on the outs from another team, or he goes for pick(s) that you can use for other trades or replace pick(s) that we might trade out.