Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Skinner probably won’t be bought out but 2.5 in dead money really wont be a significant figure anymore. Don’t overpay the bottom six/third pair and you’re there.

Toronto retained 1.2M on a Kessel trade and that ended up hurting them very quickly. When you're that close to the cap you need all the room you can get. Having that empty cap hit is rough. It's not attached to a player that's filling a lineup spot. It's not a cap hit you can send down. It's not a cap hit you can trade away. It's just there. A cap hit for 6 years is a long time.

 

[TehDoak]

Paying over 4M for the three years he would've been here scoring 30 goals, and then paying him 2.5M for another three years after he would've been gone, during the team's likely best window of contention, is preferable?

Given his history, he would probably score 9 goals one of those years, 35 one year, and 22 the other

He isn't exactly the portrait of consistency.

It's funny that people simply aren't seeing the issue.

He's a poster child for the things wrong with this team. He gets force fed premium ice time regardless of his effort level. He is easy to take off his game. And he is the best vet winger we have. It's a horrible example to have young players learn from.

 

[VaporTrail]

The lack of GOOD veteran support is obvious. Okposo, Skinner, and Girgensons have been passengers on the loser parade for way too long. Girgensons has been here, essentially, the whole of the drought. Okposo 7 years, Skinner 6 years. They are used to losing and accepting of it. They all have to go this summer and replaced with guys who will set the standard higher.

At. Any. Cost. Overpay in terms of draft capital, prospects, or cash. Get the 'give a f***' back in the locker room.

Yes, the youth have to come along and lead as well, but without the veteran examples of how to put in the work night in and night out, it's just been a friendship circle with the only real dividing line of 'has been paid, hasn't been paid', and the effort this year pretty much divides right on that line.

Poor messaging from the front office about how what they were doing was acceptable and to just keep doing it ('just 1% better guys!') and the lack of any real good on ice additions was the death knell and another punt of a season.

Exactly..I want guys who are breaking stuff and ripping the locker room apart after losses....This team is just too accustomed to losing...It doesn't piss them off...We still have the losing culture here...Adams never got rid of it all...Him, Granato, and the losers need to go.

 

[Irie]

Given his history, he would probably score 9 goals one of those years, 35 one year, and 22 the other

He isn't exactly the portrait of consistency.

I know math is hard and stuff, but your evaluation of Skinner's consistency may need a bit of work.

Here are his 82 game pro-rated goal totals for his fourteen years in the league excluding his two years of playing in the bottom six under Krueger.

31
26
25
38
19
28
38
24
40
34
36
31

Would you like to reassess your statement now that you have been presented with the actual numbers? Or are you good continuing on down your path of false narrative?

 

[alehman42]

I know math is hard and stuff, but your evaluation of Skinner's consistency may need a bit of work.

Here are his 82 game pro-rated goal totals for his fourteen years in the league excluding his two years of playing in the bottom six under Krueger.

31
26
25
38
19
28
38
24
40
34
36
31

Would you like to reassess your statement now that you have been presented with the actual numbers? Or are you good continuing on down your path of false narrative?

I do not understand why we are arguing about Jeff Skinner during a stretch that, to my eyes, he is clearly playing through an injury.

He's always made his living using his ridiculous edge work to control the puck in front of the net and lean into defenders to draw penalties. For most of this season he's been unable to control that space and has been shying away from contact.

Age causes a lot of problems, but when a player goes from thriving in finding space in the dirty areas to avoiding them entirely...that sounds like a rib or shoulder injury waaaay more than age-related decline.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I do not understand why we are arguing about Jeff Skinner during a stretch that, to my eyes, he is clearly playing through an injury.

He's always made his living using his ridiculous edge work to control the puck in front of the net and lean into defenders to draw penalties. For most of this season he's been unable to control that space and has been shying away from contact.

Age causes a lot of problems, but when a player goes from thriving in finding space in the dirty areas to avoiding them entirely...that sounds like a rib or shoulder injury waaaay more than age-related decline.

No he isn’t. Listen to the last few week’s worth of presser’s from Granato. He emphasizes that Skinner isn’t injured, that he just doesn’t work hard enough most nights.

Jeff is good when he cares enough to show up emotionally, which isn’t nearly enough. Even Donny’s complement after last night’s game was clearly backhanded. That was the first game that he gave a shit enough to show up and work hard in a while. He usually just stands around and waits for opportunistic goals.

Skinner is the one who isn’t bringing compete, and it’s been influencing the kids negatively. Remove him before he sinks another season. A buyout is such an easy decision here.

 

[Beerz]

No he isn’t. Listen to the last few week’s worth of presser’s from Granato. He emphasizes that Skinner isn’t injured, that he just doesn’t work hard enough most nights.

Jeff is good when he cares enough to show up emotionally, which isn’t nearly enough. Even Donny’s complement after last night’s game was clearly backhanded. That was the first game that he gave a shit enough to show up and work hard in a while. He usually just stands around and waits for opportunistic goals.

Skinner is the one who isn’t bringing compete, and it’s been influencing the kids negatively. Remove him before he sinks another season. A buyout is such an easy decision here.

Yeah.. since..the Montreal game haha

Skinner was playing like shit for about 12 to 15 games.. Im not giving him a pass with the injury excuse. It happens.

I'm also not giving Tage the excuse of an injury. He has been playing like shit almost the entire year.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Given his history, he would probably score 9 goals one of those years, 35 one year, and 22 the other

He isn't exactly the portrait of consistency.

It's funny that people simply aren't seeing the issue.

He's a poster child for the things wrong with this team. He gets force fed premium ice time regardless of his effort level. He is easy to take off his game. And he is the best vet winger we have. It's a horrible example to have young players learn from.

You're exaggerating the negative and ignoring the positive. I have NEVER liked Skinner. With Carolina I saw him as a bit of a prima donna punk, didn't like Botts trading for him even though the trade value was good. Despite this the 9M contract is there now and can't be undone, and the buy-out doesn't fix it. The numbers just don't justify it...they DON'T.

All the other stuff about his lack of effort is not a Skinner problem that might poorly influence the younger guys...it's a COACHING problem that fails to hold anyone on the roster accountable. Every team in the league has a couple guys that mail it in on a regular basis, put their feet up after signing a big guaranteed contract, or just have crap attitudes. Most of the time it doesn't infect the locker room because there is a HC that keeps people in check. The Sabres don't have that, they have a camp counselor buddy that tells them everything will be ok.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I'm going to update my salary spreadsheet for the next few years. Can someone (smart people ONLY please) tell me what the next contracts will look like for the following people?

(Let's assume they're all in the 3-5 years range as far as duration because I don't think we can afford any long terms ones anymore. I don't need to know the number of years)

Peterka
Quinn
Tuch
Mitts
Greenway
Krebs
Joki
Benson

Edit: I need UPL too

Thanks!

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Yeah.. since..the Montreal game haha

Skinner was playing like shit for about 12 to 15 games.. Im not giving him a pass with the injury excuse. It happens.

I'm also not giving Tage the excuse of an injury. He has been playing like shit almost the entire year.

Tuch has been shit this year too, until recently -- that whole top line has sunk the season almost single-handedly.

One of them needs to be bought out, and I'm fine with keeping or trading the other two.

$7.1m isn't bad at all for what Tage brings, even when he isn't scoring 40 goals, considering his effectiveness on the PK. But I don't see him being traded.

I'm not even sure what point your making in the first place but whatever.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

I'm going to update my salary spreadsheet for the next few years. Can someone (smart people ONLY please) tell me what the next contracts will look like for the following people?

(Let's assume they're all in the 3-5 years range as far as duration because I don't think we can afford any long terms ones anymore. I don't need to know the number of years)

Peterka
Quinn
Tuch
Mitts
Greenway
Krebs
Joki
Benson

Thanks!

I’ll take a shot:

Peterka and Quinn probably come in around 3 x $5M if they’re going bridge.

I really can’t see a scenario where Tuch gets less than 7 years on his next deal. 7 x $7M or so, maybe more.

Mitts 5 x $6.4M.

Greenway, I really have no idea.

Krebs 2 x $1.5M.

Jokiharju 3 x $3M.

It’s too early to project Benson right now.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I’ll take a shot:

Peterka and Quinn probably come in around 3 x $5M if they’re going bridge.

I really can’t see a scenario where Tuch gets less than 7 years on his next deal. 7 x $7M or so, maybe more.

Mitts 5 x $6.4M.

Greenway, I really have no idea.

Krebs 2 x $1.5M.

Jokiharju 3 x $3M.

It’s too early to project Benson right now.

I'm roughly the same. We aren't even close to being able to sign all of them at these prices though, this puts us like $10M over the cap in 26/27 (I think...I'm not done yet, so maybe I have something off).

 

[TehDoak]

I know math is hard and stuff, but your evaluation of Skinner's consistency may need a bit of work.

Here are his 82 game pro-rated goal totals for his fourteen years in the league excluding his two years of playing in the bottom six under Krueger.

31
26
25
38
19
28
38
24
40
34
36
31

Would you like to reassess your statement now that you have been presented with the actual numbers? Or are you good continuing on down your path of false narrative?

Sorry, my eyes glazed over when you said 'Excluding the two years he did absolutely jack shit while being paid 9M per season'

Edit: Essentially, throwing out his worst two seasons because he refused to play the system the coach wanted to and got demoted for it but the very fact we have to take a minute and consider "Well will our highest paid forward actually show up if we hire this coach" if we decide to change coaches simply reinforces the fact that he's gotta go.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I’ll take a shot:

Peterka and Quinn probably come in around 3 x $5M if they’re going bridge.

I really can’t see a scenario where Tuch gets less than 7 years on his next deal. 7 x $7M or so, maybe more.

Mitts 5 x $6.4M.

Greenway, I really have no idea.

Krebs 2 x $1.5M.

Jokiharju 3 x $3M.

It’s too early to project Benson right now.

Those are some pretty big bridge numbers for Q & P, they should fit on more average numbers. They only have next season to bump up their production to justify a 5 mil bridge, probably won't happen, and any bridge should be 2 yrs so they get their next deal when Skinner's runs out.

Tuch will be 30 when he starts his next contract, 7 yrs might be long.
Mitts is the one going 7 yrs, not 5, but 6.5-7 mil is right.
Greenway would go 2-5 yrs, around 3.5-4 mil.
Krebs and Joker is about spot on, and I agree about Benson.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Jeez, we have a shitty team and are basically already in cap trouble with the contracts signed. The Power contract is one of the biggest mistakes we've made for a long time. A bridge would've prevented us from losing a really good player, which we'll now have to do.

Some options to stay under the cap:

• Trade Cozens if you think he'll end up a winger
• Trade Peterka (my preference)
• Trade Quinn if you think he'll continue to be injury prone
• Trade Mitts, if you think Cozens is a C
• Trade both Joki and Clifton
• Trade Tuch (if you don't see him aging well re: injuries, or if you think he'll want to sign where his wife lives) + Someone else for 25/26 compliance
• Trade Tage (don't see that happening)

One of these above bullets absolutely, 100% have to happen to stay under the cap after next season. Oh, and we definitely can't re-sign Greenway.

Those are some pretty big bridge numbers for Q & P, they should fit on more average numbers. They only have next season to bump up their production to justify a 5 mil bridge, probably won't happen, and any bridge should be 2 yrs so they get their next deal when Skinner's runs out.

Tuch will be 30 when he starts his next contract, 7 yrs might be long.
Mitts is the one going 7 yrs, not 5, but 6.5-7 mil is right.
Greenway would go 2-5 yrs, around 3.5-4 mil.
Krebs and Joker is about spot on, and I agree about Benson.

Greenway isn't an option at all. I'm not sure Tuch is an option either...I didn't realize he'll be 30. He'll probably want to go play where his wife lives, which will alleviate our cap situation after 25/26 season. But then we still have 25/26 to deal with.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Sorry, my eyes glazed over when you said 'Excluding the two years he did absolutely jack shit while being paid 9M per season'

Edit: Essentially, throwing out his worst two seasons because he refused to play the system the coach wanted to and got demoted for it but the very fact we have to take a minute and consider "Well will our highest paid forward actually show up if we hire this coach" if we decide to change coaches simply reinforces the fact that he's gotta go.

Buying out Skinner doesn't fix the cap situation -- the Power contract ensured that. But it would allow us to keep Greenway. So even culture/locker room aside, it allows us to keep Greenway over an ELC as far as cap goes.

Then his penalty cap hit after 26/27 is the amount of some performance bonuses. Not a big deal.

 

[BFLO]

There are some juicy potential UFA D-men this summer.
Skjei
Tanev
Pesce
Dillon
Roy
DeMelo

I'm sure Adams will try really hard, but the deal will fall apart at the last moment

 

[Der Jaeger]

I can’t believe they’re finally playing Cozens on the wing after @Der Jaeger has been calling for it since his first day in the league. So far it’s working.

Big body, fast, strong stride, great shot, good in the corners. He could be a good center, but I don't see a creative playmaker that would be a better fit. He'd be an ideal 3C but that's because of his talent level.

But as a RW in the top 6, he's a great fit. He reminds me of a young Kreider. Always has.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

There are some juicy potential UFA D-men this summer.
Skjei
Tanev
Pesce
Dillon
Roy
DeMelo

I'm sure Adams will try really hard, but the deal will fall apart at the last moment

Let's be honest, we need a righty. Here's that list:

Tanev
Pesce
Roy
DeMelo

And ~28 teams will be calling each of them.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

If my main goal was to change the attitude of the team, and actually make a hockey trade sensible to both teams. This is in response to the Ottawa rumor.

1. Sign Mitts to something around 5 x $7.

2. Tage for Brady T as a basis. I’m willing to loose the trade on paper to take a step forward as a team.

Why Tage? Our 3 centers, well how we always talk about…Tage, Mitts & Cozens….I see both Mitts n Cozens being able to play a more physical/power than Tage. Plus, you gotta give to get and Tage has bees point per game for 2 seasons so he has tremendous value, and signed but to me Brady is more valuable so:

Brady for Tage, Joki and a 2nd. I’m willing to tweak that as needed but Tage is the main piece going to Ottawa.

Brady - Mitts - Tuch
JJ - Cozens - Quinn
Skinner - defensive center- Greenway

Even though it’s a baby face, I’d be ok with Brady being one of the faces of the franchise going forward and his backbone will rub off on the others, especially getting Cozens back to playing a tougher, straightforward game.

Franchise needs a shakeup, this to me would be huge. Reshape fourth line this off-season and team comes back with a different attitude

 

[TageGod]

Just noticed Sabres are 9 points out, PHI holds the last spot at 67, with one extra game played.

If my main goal was to change the attitude of the team, and actually make a hockey trade sensible to both teams. This is in response to the Ottawa rumor.

1. Sign Mitts to something around 5 x $7.

2. Tage for Brady T as a basis. I’m willing to loose the trade on paper to take a step forward as a team.

Why Tage? Our 3 centers, well how we always talk about…Tage, Mitts & Cozens….I see both Mitts n Cozens being able to play a more physical/power than Tage. Plus, you gotta give to get and Tage has bees point per game for 2 seasons so he has tremendous value, and signed but to me Brady is more valuable so:

Brady for Tage, Joki and a 2nd. I’m willing to tweak that as needed but Tage is the main piece going to Ottawa.

Brady - Mitts - Tuch
JJ - Cozens - Quinn
Skinner - defensive center- Greenway

Even though it’s a baby face, I’d be ok with Brady being one of the faces of the franchise going forward and his backbone will rub off on the others, especially getting Cozens back to playing a tougher, straightforward game.

Franchise needs a shakeup, this to me would be huge. Reshape fourth line this off-season and team comes back with a different attitude

Idk if you noticed, but Tage is very physical on the boards to take/protect the puck. Mitts is just not remotely a physical player. Why are we adding to get Brady and why are they giving up Brady?

 

[Djp]

Seems that way. At this point, I suspect his plan is simply to let players roll off into free agency and keep perpetually plugging players into the middle of the lineup on ELC's rather than looking at the holes in the roster that can be filled and filling them. There are more draft picks and UDFA opportunities every year. Once a team is built, the number of players who they need to percolate up into the lineup is fairly finite yet still happens. What they have now is a fetish for prospects and talk of long-term future when the way to ensure long-term future is take what they have and push it into the playoffs with a couple astute trades.

Both Coleman and Garland were actively being shopped over the summer. In a world where someone is willing to take a chance instead of sleeping, I wonder at what the 2nd and 3rd lines look like if those two are out there, chewing on defensemen on the forecheck instead of giving Vic a gold star when he comes within 3' of his man in a puck battle.

People would be saying KA was an idiot he was for making those trades because they would not have changed the teams standings.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Greenway isn't an option at all. I'm not sure Tuch is an option either...I didn't realize he'll be 30. He'll probably want to go play where his wife lives, which will alleviate our cap situation after 25/26 season. But then we still have 25/26 to deal with.

With all the wing prospects we have, and then adding Benson, I never envisioned keeping Greenway, which sucks because we need more of him not less. Wahlberg can be like him, but then we'll need another Wahlberg.

 

[thewookie1]

Jeez, we have a shitty team and are basically already in cap trouble with the contracts signed. The Power contract is one of the biggest mistakes we've made for a long time. A bridge would've prevented us from losing a really good player, which we'll now have to do.

Some options to stay under the cap:

• Trade Cozens if you think he'll end up a winger
• Trade Peterka (my preference)
• Trade Quinn if you think he'll continue to be injury prone
• Trade Mitts, if you think Cozens is a C
• Trade both Joki and Clifton
• Trade Tuch (if you don't see him aging well re: injuries, or if you think he'll want to sign where his wife lives) + Someone else for 25/26 compliance
• Trade Tage (don't see that happening)

One of these above bullets absolutely, 100% have to happen to stay under the cap after next season. Oh, and we definitely can't re-sign Greenway.


Greenway isn't an option at all. I'm not sure Tuch is an option either...I didn't realize he'll be 30. He'll probably want to go play where his wife lives, which will alleviate our cap situation after 25/26 season. But then we still have 25/26 to deal with.

You buy out Skinner next year, and bridge Peterka and Quinn. There's no need to cut off your nose

Just noticed Sabres are 9 points out, PHI holds the last spot at 67, with one extra game played.

Philly holds the 3rd Metro spot, we are chasing Tampa and Detroit

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

You buy out Skinner next year, and bridge Peterka and Quinn. There's no need to cut off your nose



Philly holds the 3rd Metro spot, we are chasing Tampa and Detroit

I assumed a bridge. We still need to get rid of one of them, and we still wouldn't be able to afford any other upgrades. We'd have to ditch like 3 players if we want to upgrade.

We are mostly stuck with the team we have for the next several years, minus at least one big piece, probably more.

I don't think people understand just how much the Power contract completely prevents any meaningful changes to this team in the medium term.