Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[MOGlLNY]

Anybody want to play Russian roulette? 6 bullets though

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Anybody want to play Russian roulette? 6 bullets though

I'll play with just one round...out of my semi-auto.

 

[Irie]

The contracts he signed do not have trade protection. They are easy to move if you offer the right incentive. Thompson Cozens and Power would have plenty of suitors. The cap isn’t an issue unless you have the Skinner situation where he dictates where he wants to go if at all. If you trade a future for a 6/7 million contrct player whomis good, you move someone. That simple. I also think showing you are willing to move underperforming assets, looking at you Vic, for cap reasons adds the internal competition this teams lacks. I see no reward for good play in terms of toi and deployments and no punishment for bad play. Just constant talk of “trying to get so and so going.” The cap is not an issue for teams outside the playoffs for 13 years. You have no one who has demonstrated a value that can’t be replaced.

Everyone is still in RFA years, so they can't have trade protection.

But the point of my post was that you cant bring in a big contract without a big contract going out. Skinner is unmovable. That means to bring in something big, you are moving something big that most would rather hold on to.

It may become a "grass is always greener" situation where people just want a new shiny toy, but without a change in the way this team plays as a team, no shiny new toy is going to have much impact. I am afraid, (as Chain aptly described it on the mainboards), we are just shuffling deck chairs.

 

[Tatanka]

Everyone is still in RFA years, so they can't have trade protection.

But the point of my post was that you cant bring in a big contract without a big contract going out. Skinner is unmovable. That means to bring in something big, you are moving something big that most would rather hold on to.

It may become a "grass is always greener" situation where people just want a new shiny toy, but without a change in the way this team plays as a team, no shiny new toy is going to have much impact. I am afraid, (as Chain aptly described it on the mainboards), we are just shuffling deck chairs.

Or it is a situation where it is objectively obvious you need to improve on x or Y. No worries. Do it no excuses

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Everyone is still in RFA years, so they can't have trade protection.

But the point of my post was that you cant bring in a big contract without a big contract going out. Skinner is unmovable. That means to bring in something big, you are moving something big that most would rather hold on to.

It may become a "grass is always greener" situation where people just want a new shiny toy, but without a change in the way this team plays as a team, no shiny new toy is going to have much impact. I am afraid, (as Chain aptly described it on the mainboards), we are just shuffling deck chairs.

This is nonsense. You are making it seem like there’s no way to assess if a player is good or not ahead of time, before you acquire him, or before you let him go. These management teams are paid big bucks to make these decisions and to know ahead of time, how good they are, etc.

You can point to bad trades/contracts like PLD and Skinner and Huberdeau but everyone knew those were bad at the time and said so. They are bad managers and decisions makers just like Adams. The good ones aren’t perfect but confident and competent enough to move their teams in a positive direction.

You make it seem like you spin a wheel of luck after a trade that determines how good he is going forward. Assessing players isn’t a perfect science but you need a manager who can do that without having to watch him for 3 years.

 

[Irie]

Or it is a situation where it is objectively obvious you need to improve on x or Y. No worries. Do it no excuses

It feels like you have been advocating trading players just to make a trade and justifying it with the position that "since they can't make the playoffs, every player on the team is not worth keeping."

I won't argue that this team could use a revamping, but the player that needs to be moved the most is unmovable, which leaves one of Tage, Mits, Cozens, Power or Dahlin to be the player jetisoned in a cap move. Adams would be selling very low on all except Mitts, but is moving Mitts in the best interest of this team moving forward if they want to compete?

The way I see it, Cozens and Power won't return enough to justify trading them and their potential. Moving Dahlin is a rebuild move that the fanbase won't tolerate. Tage is the only one I think makes sense to move *if* the return is right. Two great years may be enough for teams to overlook this injury filled season and bank on him bouncing back. I could see a team like Nashville, Minnesota, or Seattle having a need for a topline center and maybe be willing to give up some good pieces to acquire one, but it absolutely has to be a hockey trade with fair value based on Thompson's recent production and not this mess of a year.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

It feels like you have been advocating trading players just to make a trade and justifying it with the position that "since they can't make the playoffs, every player on the team is not worth keeping."

I won't argue that this team could use a revamping, but the player that needs to be moved the most is unmovable, which leaves one of Tage, Mits, Cozens, Power or Dahlin to be the player jetisoned in a cap move. Adams would be selling very low on all except Mitts, but is moving Mitts in the best interest of this team moving forward if they want to compete?

The way I see it, Cozens and Power won't return enough to justify trading them and their potential. Moving Dahlin is a rebuild move that the fanbase won't tolerate. Tage is the only one I think makes sense to move *if* the return is right. Two great years may be enough for teams to overlook this injury filled season and bank on him bouncing back. I could see a team like Nashville, Minnesota, or Seattle having a need for a topline center and maybe be willing to give up some good pieces to acquire one, but it absolutely has to be a hockey trade with fair value based on Thompson's recent production and not this mess of a year.

You buyout Skinner and trade Tuch.

If he doesn’t buy out Skinner this off-season, this team is never going anywhere. There is no hope for next season if that isn’t done..

 

[Tatanka]

It feels like you have been advocating trading players just to make a trade and justifying it with the position that "since they can't make the playoffs, every player on the team is not worth keeping."

I won't argue that this team could use a revamping, but the player that needs to be moved the most is unmovable, which leaves one of Tage, Mits, Cozens, Power or Dahlin to be the player jetisoned in a cap move. Adams would be selling very low on all except Mitts, but is moving Mitts in the best interest of this team moving forward if they want to compete?

The way I see it, Cozens and Power won't return enough to justify trading them and their potential. Moving Dahlin is a rebuild move that the fanbase won't tolerate. Tage is the only one I think makes sense to move *if* the return is right. Two great years may be enough for teams to overlook this injury filled season and bank on him bouncing back. I could see a team like Nashville, Minnesota, or Seattle having a need for a topline center and maybe be willing to give up some good pieces to acquire one, but it absolutely has to be a hockey trade with fair value based on Thompson's recent production and not this mess of a year.

If you have read my posts on all players, roster etc. you will notice a consistent theme. The Emperor is naked. We are not good. We have not made the playoffs in 13 seasons. Considering that half the teams in the league make the playoffs we have been below mediocre during that time. If you factor in expansion and that two teams were added in that span, meaning more than half the teams make the playoffs the optic is worse. Yet there is a sentiment that the Sabres can do what know other team in hockey has ever done. Build a championship team organically and only through the draft. I say again the Emperor is naked. The team has not achieved and will not undermthis plan.

I do not advocate gutting the team, but all the arguments around this place revolve around what we can’t do. We can’t trade x we can’t acquire y, contracts, salary cap blah blah. Insee avenues that we can pursue and on a team that has underachieved epically, I see no sacred cows. Where we agree, you and I, is that the current decision makers, including the one who writes the checks, are incapable of building a winning team and I do not trust them to “do the right thing.” You may disagree. But the more excuses we accept the easier it is to accept the current state as inevitable. Bullsh!t. Things are they way they are due to human endeavor. They can be changed by human endeavor, provided the right humans are in charge.

In professional sports you sell entertainment and the affiliation with a brand. For 50 years I have been loyal to the brand. I know it doesn’t have to be this way. But the only way it changes is by holding the owners of the brand to task to act like other owners who have been so entrusted and have taken that responsibility to heart , to act professionally and honestly. Bit if every armchair gm keeps eating the excuses being dished out the impetus for change is removed.

Simply put there are no excuses. No one is unreplaceable and this is where it has to start.

 

[MOGlLNY]

POSITIVES OF THIS SEASON:
UPL seems to be a legitimate guy we can count on.

Zach Benson is GOOD and we need 5 more of him.

Ryan Johnson is better than we thought when we signed him. Definitely a solid #3 or a great #4 in his future imo.

Casey has either skyrocketed his trade value or has given us incredible center depth. If all 3 guys are going, that is.

Greenway has been better than expected. But he’s still a shade above being JAG. So idk if I’d retain him, but I like him.


That’s about it. And I don’t think it’s a good thing these are the 4 players that have impressed me the most this season.

 

[oldgoalie]

If you have read my posts on all players, roster etc. you will notice a consistent theme. The Emperor is naked. We are not good. We have not made the playoffs in 13 seasons. Considering that half the teams in the league make the playoffs we have been below mediocre during that time. If you factor in expansion and that two teams were added in that span, meaning more than half the teams make the playoffs the optic is worse. Yet there is a sentiment that the Sabres can do what know other team in hockey has ever done. Build a championship team organically and only through the draft. I say again the Emperor is naked. The team has not achieved and will not undermthis plan.

I do not advocate gutting the team, but all the arguments around this place revolve around what we can’t do. We can’t trade x we can’t acquire y, contracts, salary cap blah blah. Insee avenues that we can pursue and on a team that has underachieved epically, I see no sacred cows. Where we agree, you and I, is that the current decision makers, including the one who writes the checks, are incapable of building a winning team and I do not trust them to “do the right thing.” You may disagree. But the more excuses we accept the easier it is to accept the current state as inevitable. Bullsh!t. Things are they way they are due to human endeavor. They can be changed by human endeavor, provided the right humans are in charge.

In professional sports you sell entertainment and the affiliation with a brand. For 50 years I have been loyal to the brand. I know it doesn’t have to be this way. But the only way it changes is by holding the owners of the brand to task to act like other owners who have been so entrusted and have taken that responsibility to heart , to act professionally and honestly. Bit if every armchair gm keeps eating the excuses being dished out the impetus for change is removed.

Simply put there are no excuses. No one is unreplaceable and this is where it has to start.

great post. those of us that have been fans since the beginning are dying inside with what has been done to what was the (4th?) winning-est franchise in the league.

 

[Jim Bob]

You buyout Skinner and trade Tuch.

If he doesn’t buy out Skinner this off-season, this team is never going anywhere. There is no hope for next season if that isn’t done..

Adams said yesterday he would not even consider trading Tuch. So, if you think that is essential to the team making the playoffs, you are going to be really pessimistic about the team moving forward.

 

[TageGod]

You buyout Skinner and trade Tuch.

If he doesn’t buy out Skinner this off-season, this team is never going anywhere. There is no hope for next season if that isn’t done..

Why would they trade Tuch? He is hardly making anything.

Sabres have a projected 26m cap space next season. Mitts and UPL lets say 10 million. 16m left. What is the point of buying out skinner his contract isn't impacting them. No hope for next season if they don't buyout skinner? You are so full of crap.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Why would they trade Tuch? He is hardly making anything.

Sabres have a projected 26m cap space next season. Mitts and UPL lets say 10 million. 16m left. What is the point of buying out skinner his contract isn't impacting them. No hope for next season if they don't buyout skinner? You are so full of crap.

There is a hell of a lot of improvements to be made between doing nothing, and buying out Skinner, in order to get into playoff position. Trading Tuch isn't part of that either.

 

[Dubi Doo]

TP being more active than ever is a wonderful thing to read. Also, 'not interested in making 'future' deals'- I really hope that doesn't mean he doesn't want to trade futures for help now.

 

[truthbluth]

TP being more active than ever is a wonderful thing to read. Also, 'not interested in making 'future' deals'- I really hope that doesn't mean he doesn't want to trade futures for help now.

What he specifically said was he wasn't interested in aquiring more futures.

 

[Jim Bob]

TP being more active than ever is a wonderful thing to read. Also, 'not interested in making 'future' deals'- I really hope that doesn't mean he doesn't want to trade futures for help now.

Personally, that scares the heck out of me as I remember how active Terry was when the Sabres signed guys like Leino, Ehrhoff, and Hall.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Did GMKA reiterate Casey has two RFA years after this one. People have said he had one, but if he has two, I don't see any panic about trading him at all.

 

[Duddy]

Personally, that scares the heck out of me as I remember how active Terry was when the Sabres signed guys like Leino, Ehrhoff, and Hall.

People can talk shit about the Ehrhoff signing all they want but the contract was fire until the NHL changed the rules. Not even in the same galaxy as Leino.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

Pretty great reply to the last one.

I’m just thinking about how inactive this GM has been…and now most of the currency that moves is off the board...because we have sat on a pile of it already. Can you be negatively productive? We’re going to find out!

In economics, there is a point where the return of adding another worker causes overall efficiency to decrease (ie a negative return). The Sabres are basically there with their (forward) prospects - there are too many to develop at once, and they are actively creating diminished returns on potential talent.

 

[TageGod]

To make the playoffs, this is in no way realistic, but not impossible:

Maintain positive 5v5 statistics
UPL maintains .920 pace
PK middle of the pack pace
PP improvement towards league average by season end
Sabres have been on the wrong side of luck, win streaks, home wins, top players performing well etc. It is not unrealistic to see their home wins improve, to get some good luck, and to see players like Tage and Skinner to get back into contributing regularly.
Force the losses to go to overtime

When was the last time a team in a single season never went on a 3+ game win streak? This has been a playoff/bubble team since January hit.

Can this team go 20-5-5 and get to 95?

I reiterate, this is not hopium or my expectation. This is their remaining path to get there.

 

[Chainshot]

People can talk shit about the Ehrhoff signing all they want but the contract was fire until the NHL changed the rules. Not even in the same galaxy as Leino.

Always thought the league wanted to deliberately hobble TPegs willingness to pay people. Ehrhoff's ES production did not fall off, where his production flagged was due to no longer working with the Sedin twins (edit) on the powerplay. When Buffalo tried to do what the Hawks did, they changed the rules and it seemed like it was specifically to f*** with Buffalo trying to become competitive.

 

[oldgoalie]

Always thought the league wanted to deliberately hobble TPegs willingness to pay people. Ehrhoff's ES production did not fall off, where his production flagged was due to no longer working with the Sedin twins. When Buffalo tried to do what the Hawks did, they changed the rules and it seemed like it was specifically to f*** with Buffalo trying to become competitive.

this league and it's f***ing carousel of "rules". f*** them. it's why the NHL is below pickleball in popularity in the US.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

People can talk shit about the Ehrhoff signing all they want but the contract was fire until the NHL changed the rules. Not even in the same galaxy as Leino.

Yeah they're using some revisionist history. The legacy rich wing of the BOG was pissed that TP was trying to buy into that clique. The hockey world was big mad that he was able to bring Ehrhoff onto the team at such a low AAV by paying him out so long and with that massive bonus.

They (correctly) predicted that this would cause a bonus arms race and just changed the rules instead.
Moving on, I'm not sure why the team would have an imperative to trade Tuch. He's a good player on a good contract bringing something no one else on the team does. What they need is to trade for a carbon copy of him.

Similarly I don't see why they MUST buy out Skinner immediately. He's a fine player, just badly over paid. It also crushes their cap in 25-26 and 26-27.

 

[Djp]

You buyout Skinner and trade Tuch.

If he doesn’t buy out Skinner this off-season, this team is never going anywhere. There is no hope for next season if that isn’t done..

Buying out skinner does what exactly? In 26/27 you will get a $6,5M hit wait a year it goes down yo 6, wait till 26 its down to $5.67

 

[Djp]

To make the playoffs, this is in no way realistic, but not impossible:

Maintain positive 5v5 statistics
UPL maintains .920 pace
PK middle of the pack pace
PP improvement towards league average by season end
Sabres have been on the wrong side of luck, win streaks, home wins, top players performing well etc. It is not unrealistic to see their home wins improve, to get some good luck, and to see players like Tage and Skinner to get back into contributing regularly.
Force the losses to go to overtime

When was the last time a team in a single season never went on a 3+ game win streak? This has been a playoff/bubble team since January hit.

Can this team go 20-5-5 and get to 95?

I reiterate, this is not hopium or my expectation. This is their remaining path to get there.

They have gone 6-5 with last 5 losses were basically 1 goal losses. Small margins and they could have been 9-1-1 and back in the playoff bubble. Tampa, Vancouver and Dallas the goalie saved them