Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Tatanka]

The team could also hire a coach and staff who are actual credible NHL quality with track records to back it up. They could try that instead of yet another ill advised trade that ends up another LOLCOW style catastrophe that we specialize in no?

Apologies. That was implied. But even with that change this roster needs work.

 

[Chainshot]

So do you believe the Sabres would consider moving one of TT or Cozens to keep Mitts? Or how do fans view this “dilemma”?

What are the Sabres needs? From an outsiders perspective you have good center depth, some wingers, a decent d-core, but only okay goalies.

Would it be safe to assume it’s goalie and winger that Sabres fans would most want to get in return?

I have to say that I don't know what the team will do. There are some who have strong (sometimes negative) opinions about each of the three centers, often depending on the "what have you done in a game lately" method of giving voice to that.

The issue from where I sit is that if they were to move Mittelstadt, they are back to not having enough NHL centers. They have four right now. Many teams have multiple centers playing the wing - think of Edmonton where RNH is on McDavid's wing instead of running his own line - rather than having to scramble to find one if any of the others go down. Mittelstadt is well liked per everything we've seen and what we've heard as sort of the guy the younger players hang with near the lake. He puts in the work, he's diligent and while not a banger plays an active puck pursuit game and is dogged at trying to recover or win pucks. It's hard to just pull that out of the lineup for even more futures. I like Krebs, I am not comfortable right now pushing him into the role Mitts fills. As for Cozens, it's hard to deal a guy who just put up 30 as a 21-year old who has the tools and projectability he does, even if they were to move him to the wing. Thompson is coming off a 90-point season and while his production is down, he's had some injuries he's tried to work through including coming back to play after McAvoy kicked him (and then later in that game breaking his wrist which he then returned from a few weeks early).

The Sabres biggest need is for a partner for Dahlin or Power (and I'm not partial if it is a LD or RD, though of course RD would be preferred) who can handle defensive situations, PKing, the takeout portion of a high-level takeout-breakout pair. And after that, experience for their wingers and younger players who get caught being young often.

Goaltending has solidified with Luukkonen. He's not Vasi or someone like that, but he's giving them quality starts in a way they haven't had from anyone since Ullmark left (and perhaps even before that since Ullmark was so often either injured or in his own way not ready). Levi continues to look very promising and needs practice and game reps IMO to round out the parts of his game that need work.


So the short version would be continuing to hang onto them all. I know the Avs are looking for a 2C and honestly, a pursuit line with Mitts and Lekhonen would be a serious PITA for a lot of teams to deal with. However, I also don't look at what I would think the Avs would be willing to move and think there is not much there that moves my needle - Buffalo is at the point they need to find their own Lekhonen types, not chase more prospects or draft picks. Just my two cents.

 

[Zman5778]

And yet......our best bumper player AND a guy who loves to get to the net, Benson..........is not on a PP.

Put Greenway on PP1 net front. Put Tuch on PP2 netfront and then Benson on the bumper.

 

[Selanne00008]

I am not a passive person, and when it comes to hockey, a “soft” player infuriates me. Hockey is a contact sport, at least it is on the NA ice size and in the NHL. So I looked up one of my worst memories of my Sabres….and I’ve been a fan since day 1. Nov 2011 is when Lucic ran over Miller. This team has not had an identity since.

My tiers:

Untouchable:
Dahlin

Do not wish to trade:
Cozins
Peterka
Kulich
I would put Quinn in here but injuries.

My personal opinion is that we need a heart and soul leader, that’s in his prime, that becomes the captain and face of the franchise. Obviously, there are very few of these guys…

We need that heart n soul guy, plus a fourth line tough as nails guy.

Obviously, summer trade but I would target:

1. Draisatle. Tage, Power + Rosen/Savoie + pick. Obviously, extension

2. Brady Tchuck. I think this could be a bigger trade, maybe with Giroux coming with.

3. I like Jenner but I’m not sure he’s enough of an identity shifter.

Once you make that trade, bring in a fiery coach like Torts. All our skill guys can then take a secondary role to him, which is where all of them need to be.

I am not opposed to a major shake up like that. I am however fearful that it doesn't even change anything. I mean, the Kings are in the top wild card spot in the west and fired their coach. Expectations here are slim to none.

 

[sabremike]

And yet......our best bumper player AND a guy who loves to get to the net, Benson..........is not on a PP.

Put Greenway on PP1 net front. Put Tuch on PP2 netfront and then Benson on the bumper.

Has that fact dawned on the people knocking Benson for not producing points?

 

[Dubi Doo]

Well, now we'll get a good look at Clifton playing with Power for a while. If that works out- I wonder if Adams could swing a deal for a top for LD to pair with Johnson. The bottom 4 could be a 2A/2B tandem next year. It'd be some nice competition.

 

[Dingo44]

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

And yet......our best bumper player AND a guy who loves to get to the net, Benson..........is not on a PP.

Put Greenway on PP1 net front. Put Tuch on PP2 netfront and then Benson on the bumper.

Getting to the net at ES is a different skillset than getting there during a PP - it’s obviously much easier during a PP.

I have no problem saving Benson’s minutes for ES, for many reasons. Putting him on the PP solely because he can go to the net would be dumb as hell.

 

[OkimLom]

Has that fact dawned on the people knocking Benson for not producing pounts?

When did they start only allowing players to produce on the PP? Surely, there's some expectation that players can score on 5 on 5, right?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Getting to the net at ES is a different skillset than getting there during a PP - it’s obviously much easier during a PP.

I have no problem saving Benson’s minutes for ES, for many reasons. Putting him on the PP solely because he can go to the net would be dumb as hell.

is this one of those straw mens where you make the argument about adding bensen solely because he goes to the net and ignore all the parts of benson that is a high skilled playmaking young player because you cant argue against adding the actual benson and you need it to be about some fictional benson that stands in front of the net pretending hes avery because that benson isnt as good?

or is this one of those surreal sarcastic posts where you say clearly you cant add this young player that does everything we need on our PP because theres a worse player with less skills but is a good friend with the coach that needs the PP time so the absurdity of the present situation is placed in full spotlight?

 

[Zman5778]

Well, now we'll get a good look at Clifton playing with Power for a while. If that works out- I wonder if Adams could swing a deal for a top for LD to pair with Johnson. The bottom 4 could be a 2A/2B tandem next year. It'd be some nice competition.

I'd prefer Johnson to stay on his left side. Of course, I'd still love Adams to go get a top 4 RHD.

Then run Dahlin/Clifton/newguy on the right and Sammy/Power/Johnson on the left. Distribute pairings how one sees fit.

 

[Zman5778]

Getting to the net at ES is a different skillset than getting there during a PP - it’s obviously much easier during a PP.

I have no problem saving Benson’s minutes for ES, for many reasons. Putting him on the PP solely because he can go to the net would be dumb as hell.

I'm not talking about putting Benson at the net front on the PP. He should be in the bumper. It's a plus that he doesn't hesitate to get to the front.

Putting Benson at the net front on a PP (as his primary position) is begging for him to get injured right now.......and it wouldn't be effective given his slight frame.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I'd prefer Johnson to stay on his left side. Of course, I'd still love Adams to go get a top 4 RHD.

Then run Dahlin/Clifton/newguy on the right and Sammy/Power/Johnson on the left. Distribute pairings how one sees fit.

Oh man, Ive been out of the loop too long. I thought Johnson was a RD. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Zman5778]

Oh man, Ive been out of the loop too long. I thought Johnson was a RD. Thanks for clarifying!

ERIK is the rightie. RYAN is the lefty (though can play the right in a pinch)

No worries.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

is this one of those straw mens where you make the argument about adding bensen solely because he goes to the net and ignore all the parts of benson that is a high skilled playmaking young player because you cant argue against adding the actual benson and you need it to be about some fictional benson that stands in front of the net pretending hes avery because that benson isnt as good?

or is this one of those surreal sarcastic posts where you say clearly you cant add this young player that does everything we need on our PP because theres a worse player with less skills but is a good friend with the coach that needs the PP time so the absurdity of the present situation is placed in full spotlight?

I'm responding o the person who criticized the coach for not putting him on the PP because he can "play in front of the net." That just sounds dumb to me.

I'm not against using him on the PP but this is unsound reasoning for doing it.

 

[Der Jaeger]

And yet......our best bumper player AND a guy who loves to get to the net, Benson..........is not on a PP.

Put Greenway on PP1 net front. Put Tuch on PP2 netfront and then Benson on the bumper.

My son has more garbage goals than the Sabres. He's 13 and 5-3/100 pounds. I wish the Sabres would go to the net more.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

When did they start only allowing players to produce on the PP? Surely, there's some expectation that players can score on 5 on 5, right?

the same as any other rookie

like peterka only managed 27 ES points last season and Quinn 31

the biggest difference is that you dont have the top line scoring 3 points a night to cover up the rookies that are slumping

I'm responding o the person who criticized the coach for not putting him on the PP because he can "play in front of the net." That just sounds dumb to me.

I'm not against using him on the PP but this is unsound reasoning for doing it.

ya well the poster didnt say that, and even if the poster did say that its not exactly the transition to a heliocentric view of the solar system to realize that theres more to benson's game than 'he goes to the front'

Not to mention its the PP, 1 of maybe 3 times in an NHL game where, yes you actually can bring a super specialist on the ice to do 1 job

 

[Perratrooper]

I have to say that I don't know what the team will do. There are some who have strong (sometimes negative) opinions about each of the three centers, often depending on the "what have you done in a game lately" method of giving voice to that.

The issue from where I sit is that if they were to move Mittelstadt, they are back to not having enough NHL centers. They have four right now. Many teams have multiple centers playing the wing - think of Edmonton where RNH is on McDavid's wing instead of running his own line - rather than having to scramble to find one if any of the others go down. Mittelstadt is well liked per everything we've seen and what we've heard as sort of the guy the younger players hang with near the lake. He puts in the work, he's diligent and while not a banger plays an active puck pursuit game and is dogged at trying to recover or win pucks. It's hard to just pull that out of the lineup for even more futures. I like Krebs, I am not comfortable right now pushing him into the role Mitts fills. As for Cozens, it's hard to deal a guy who just put up 30 as a 21-year old who has the tools and projectability he does, even if they were to move him to the wing. Thompson is coming off a 90-point season and while his production is down, he's had some injuries he's tried to work through including coming back to play after McAvoy kicked him (and then later in that game breaking his wrist which he then returned from a few weeks early).

The Sabres biggest need is for a partner for Dahlin or Power (and I'm not partial if it is a LD or RD, though of course RD would be preferred) who can handle defensive situations, PKing, the takeout portion of a high-level takeout-breakout pair. And after that, experience for their wingers and younger players who get caught being young often.

Goaltending has solidified with Luukkonen. He's not Vasi or someone like that, but he's giving them quality starts in a way they haven't had from anyone since Ullmark left (and perhaps even before that since Ullmark was so often either injured or in his own way not ready). Levi continues to look very promising and needs practice and game reps IMO to round out the parts of his game that need work.


So the short version would be continuing to hang onto them all. I know the Avs are looking for a 2C and honestly, a pursuit line with Mitts and Lekhonen would be a serious PITA for a lot of teams to deal with. However, I also don't look at what I would think the Avs would be willing to move and think there is much there that moves my needle - Buffalo is at the point they need to find their own Lekhonen types, not chase more prospects or draft picks. Just my two cents.

I really appreciate the in-depth break down of where things stand! Glad to hear that goaltending has stabilized, I Luukkonen looked good but kinda got hung out to dry frequently which impacted his overall numbers.

I wonder if in a hypothetical trade if sending Colton back to be the reliable 3C as well as additional assets might help balance things out.

In terms of the defense side of things, what sort of age would Buffalo be hoping for? Would a player like Manson be of interest or is he too old at 32?

I think Colorado would be excited for any of the three, but if they had the option it would probably go Thompson, Mitts, Cozen.

Colorado would likely be willing to move any of Lehkonen, Colton, Wood, LOC, Byram, Manson, Girard or any draft picks/most if not all prospects.

 

[Chainshot]

I really appreciate the in-depth break down of where things stand! Glad to hear that goaltending has stabilized, I Luukkonen looked good but kinda got hung out to dry frequently which impacted his overall numbers.

I wonder if in a hypothetical trade if sending Colton back to be the reliable 3C as well as additional assets might help balance things out.

In terms of the defense side of things, what sort of age would Buffalo be hoping for? Would a player like Manson be of interest or is he too old at 32?

I think Colorado would be excited for any of the three, but if they had the option it would probably go Thompson, Mitts, Cozen.

Colorado would likely be willing to move any of Lehkonen, Colton, Wood, LOC, Byram, Manson, Girard or any draft picks/most if not all prospects.

Honestly, the outside of the box sort of move might be to have the Avs buy low on Krebs. It's a gamble for them, but his play on an identity type line has been good. But that's a significant gamble that I don't know if MacFarland has that level of trust in how Krebs is playing. It's a bit how Lekhonen was playing in Montreal - some slightly above league average Corsi and some better than league average defensive metrics. (Edit - Lehkonen's offensive stuff was way better and still is.)

I liked Manson when he was leaving Anaheim, but I understand part of his reason for staying in the West (and getting his NMC list) was that his wife is a Californian and doesn't want to be far from family. That could be an issue, as could his age catching up with his body after a lot of years of being a robust physical player.

It would be a bold move if they went Colton & Lehkonen to get a 2C - they seem like guys who are great footsoldiers for the Avs. Wood has some fans since he's a Buffalo native, and it's refreshing to see him have a bump in Colorado with how he's fit in, though he still leaks shots and chances in a manner that doesn't hold any interest for me personally. The parts I like seem like what the Avs would want to keep going into the playoffs and the parts I don't like (Girard, Byram - Buffalo is hauling a lot of LHD who are more PMD than defensive in nature).

 

[BFLO]

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Adams start reminds me a bit of Botterill's start. All that is now missing will be frittering away draft picks on has beens or players who are measurably bad at hockey to help "right the ship".

He's at the difficult phase where he has to swap some of his shiny, unopened collectable toys for some piece of the real world before they lose value. I don't know if he has it in him and thus far, I don't think he does. Maybe he can change our minds. I wouldn't place a Shane Pinto proxy bet on that happening though.

This is where I am at. Adams came in in 2020 and his high water mark is about 45 hockey games that were fun to watch. And honestly. That isn't just his high water mark, it is basically the state of the franchise in the Pegula-era.

Last year was fun, but at some point you have to "show me the baby".

As long as any team is improving leadership deserves a go to keep it going. But when your team went from bad and boring, to bad and fun, and then back to bad and boring, you have worn out your welcome. I defended Adams and trusted him based on this philosophy, but have also given up on him because of it too.

All that to say, I like this core that has mostly been put together by Botterill. I think it can win hockey games with some help from a competent FO and coaching staff. And I have no trust in Adams to assemble either. I would prefer him gone so that he can't eff it up.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I really appreciate the in-depth break down of where things stand! Glad to hear that goaltending has stabilized, I Luukkonen looked good but kinda got hung out to dry frequently which impacted his overall numbers.

I wonder if in a hypothetical trade if sending Colton back to be the reliable 3C as well as additional assets might help balance things out.

In terms of the defense side of things, what sort of age would Buffalo be hoping for? Would a player like Manson be of interest or is he too old at 32?

I think Colorado would be excited for any of the three, but if they had the option it would probably go Thompson, Mitts, Cozen.

Colorado would likely be willing to move any of Lehkonen, Colton, Wood, LOC, Byram, Manson, Girard or any draft picks/most if not all prospects.

I’d love Colton. I feel like Mitts is the one to be moved, simply because of contract status. Unfortunately there’s not much the Avs have that really interest me (Kovalenko is the only other Av player or prospect that interests me).

Idk. Mitts + small add (B prospect or a 3rd) for Colton, Kovalenko and Malinski?

 

[OkimLom]

the same as any other rookie

like peterka only managed 27 ES points last season and Quinn 31

the biggest difference is that you dont have the top line scoring 3 points a night to cover up the rookies that are slumping

I get that. I'm just curious why people are so mad about Benson not being on the PP as if he has produced on the PP. He's played the bumper position. He's found himself on the half wall. He has not produced a single PP point. He's not found that dynamic aspect of his game to be effective on the PP like he showed in Juniors, and at 5 on 5 he hasn't done so either. He plays a responsible game, which is commendable, but he's not been a player that has produced enough to earn that spot. His finish in his game is not good enough, and I get why the coaches didn't want him on the PP.

 

[Chainshot]

This is where I am at. Adams came in in 2020 and his high water mark is about 45 hockey games that were fun to watch. And honestly. That isn't just his high water mark, it is basically the state of the franchise in the Pegula-era.

Last year was fun, but at some point you have to "show me the baby".

As long as any team is improving leadership deserves a go to keep it going. But when your team went from bad and boring, to bad and fun, and then back to bad and boring, you have worn out your welcome. I defended Adams and trusted him based on this philosophy, but have also given up on him because of it too.

All that to say, I like this core that has mostly been put together by Botterill. I think it can win hockey games with some help from a competent FO and coaching staff. And I have no trust in Adams to assemble either. I would prefer him gone so that he can't eff it up.

I don't think this core can win without a couple more forwards who play a pro-style game and another top 4 defenseman who isn't mesmerized by the puck.

 

[Fezzy126]

Fun piece on Florida's structure that I think is worth the read. The note on their defense really sticks out, especially with so many complaining about the Sabres Defense makeup:

The Florida Panthers have built an incredibly stout defensive team. It helps that they have a Selke pillar 1C in Aleksander Barkov and an incredibly talented possession driver in Matthew Tkachuk on separate lines, more on them later, but their D corps was largely misfits and also-rans prior to their joining Florida, Aaron Ekblad notwithstanding.

The team’s defensemen in order of TOI:

• Brandon Montour (23:09)
• Gustav Forsling (22:13)
• Aaron Ekblad (21:23)
• Niko Mikkola (20:09)
• Oliver Ekman-Larsson (19:03)
• Dmitry Kulikov (16:50)
• Josh Mahura (12:37)

The team’s defensemen in terms of acquisition method:

• Montour- Acquired in 2021 from the Buffalo Sabres for a 3rd Round Pick
• Forsling- Claimed from waivers in 2021 from the Carolina Hurricanes
• Ekblad- Drafted 1st overall in 2014 by the Florida Panthers
• Mikkola- Signed as UFA in 2023
• Ekman-Larsson- Signed as UFA in 2023 (after being bought out by the Vancouver Canucks)
• Kulikov- Signed as UFA in 2023
• Mahura- Claimed from waivers in 2022

With the exception of Aaron Ekblad, each of these 6 players makes less than $3.5 million AAV (to a total of $12.5 million). The total acquisition cost, again outside of Ekblad, was a 3rd round draft pick and their cap hit.

The talent on the blueline here should be good enough, but it's just too damn young. I continue to believe the biggest issues with the team are lack of experience, lack of strength due to youth, and coaching. Regarding the coaching, I'm not even sure if Granato is an issue, but the assistants definitely need an upgrade, I think we've seen enough of these guys by now.