Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Chainshot]

My personal opinion. No real data to back it up but....

I think the team (management and leadership) took the time during the break to evaluate the team, the roster, and the season. I think they came to the same conclusion as the fans have. The season is lost, there is almost no chance of the playoffs.

This is why I think Samuelsson had his surgery today. Everyone was probably hoping to wait until the offseason to do it but when the consensus was that the season is lost they went ahead and did it.

That sort of explains why it was so late in the break for the surgery to take place.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything else happens, if they've come to that conclusion, over the next few weeks leading up to the trade deadline, which is about 4.5 weeks away. Not that they have UFAs that are worth much at the deadline.

Again, just my own conclusions. No proof. YMMV

They may have also given him a week-ish to see how it responded to physical therapy before deciding on the surgical repair.

I will say, it's actually good to have the player shut it down and get it fixed instead of watching someone mail it in as a shadow of their healthy self, never doing what is necessary to be the player the team needs. Not naming Bogosian by name, but Bogosian.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

My guess would be a labrum or rotator issue, you can deal with it for awhile but eventually you have to strength to push or pull.

 

[Beerz]

My guess would be a labrum or rotator issue, you can deal with it for awhile but eventually you have to strength to push or pull.

They made it sound like the injury was new when it happened.

 

[toddkaz]

Its somewhat good news I guess. Samuelsson had taken a step back from last year and now we know why.

Samuelsson might have to either adjust his playing style if he wants a long career or try on a pair of Craig Ludwig pads.

 

[BFLO]

I've actually come to the conclusion I think Adams is going to use the excuse of injuries as to why we've stunk this year (it's 1 of many reasons- but certainly not why we're going to miss) and will be repeating that over and over when he has another underwhelming off-season.

I fear the possible truth of this.

*Inevitable truth

I think this is why my enthusiasm for this team has been replaced by malaise. I no longer believe, "moves are coming next offseason". We've been telling ourselves that for the past 3 years, that NEXT offseason Kevyn will make the moves needed to make us a playoff team. But then the offseason comes and goes without Kevyn making the moves, and then the team disappoints and then the goalposts shift to "NEXT offseason" again.

What they've been doing for the past 3 years seems to be the only plan. Draft and develop. Rush most of the prospects to the NHL and then "develop" them with an Amateur coaching staff who are signed through 2026.

No meaningful addition of NHL players through UFA or trade. No replacement of the coaching staff.

I don't see Terry replacing Adams either, because Adams is giving Terry exactly what he wants from a GM.

The blind leading the blind in a never ending circle jerk of ineptitude.

 

[joshjull]

That contact is a mistake. It needs to be jettisoned. We're going to have our own Seth Jones/Darnell Nurse situation

Not comparable situations at all.

Jones and Nurse were 26yr olds with 6-7 seasons in NHL. Both were established NHLers with no real upside. Those deals take them to age 33/34 and have full NMC. Jones for entire deal. Nurse until the last 3yrs when it coverts to 10 team NTC.

Power signed as 20yr old with a ton of upside. His deal ends at 28 and he has almost no trade protection. Just 5 team NTC the last two years.

It makes no sense to trade Power at this stage of his career. Nor are there trade protections kicking in any time soon to force the issue.

 

[Jim Bob]

*Inevitable truth

I think this is why my enthusiasm for this team has been replaced by malaise. I no longer believe, "moves are coming next offseason". We've been telling ourselves that for the past 3 years, that NEXT offseason Kevyn will make the moves needed to make us a playoff team. But then the offseason comes and goes without Kevyn making the moves, and then the team disappoints and then the goalposts shift to "NEXT offseason" again.

What they've been doing for the past 3 years seems to be the only plan. Draft and develop. Rush most of the prospects to the NHL and then "develop" them with an Amateur coaching staff who are signed through 2026.

No meaningful addition of NHL players through UFA or trade. No replacement of the coaching staff.

I don't see Terry replacing Adams either, because Adams is giving Terry exactly what he wants from a GM.

The blind leading the blind in a never ending circle jerk of ineptitude.

I have never expected Adams to have an offseason where he made moves.

Entering this past offseason, I hoped he would. But, I was on "Missouri Mode" with Adams in that I would believe it when I saw it.

I remain on "Missouri Mode" until Adams actually makes moves to make meaningful improvements to the NHL roster. And signing guys like Clifton and EJ are not it.

And malaise is a great way to describe my current feelings. It's like being in a LTR where things move from promising to stagnant. You don't want to move on, but things are just boring and not doing it for me.

Thankfully I can focus on the Bills and Nate's lacrosse season. And there were some barnburner DI lax games over the weekend. Denver's comeback OT win against Hopkins and the Colgate last second upset at Penn State were classics.

 

[Tatanka]

Not comparable situations at all.

Jones and Nurse were 26yr olds with 6-7 seasons in NHL. Both were established NHLers with no real upside. Those deals take them to age 33/34 and have full NMC. Jones for entire deal. Nurse until the last 3yrs when it coverts to 10 team NTC.

Power signed as 20yr old with a ton of upside. His deal ends at 28 and he has almost no trade protection. Just 5 team NTC the last two years.

It makes no sense to trade Power at this stage of his career. Nor are there trade protections kicking in any time soon to force the issue.

It makes sense if it makes the team better. That should go for anyone on a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in going on 13 years. You are correct there is no cap pressure currently, but there is the risk of devaluation of the asset if it appears the expectations are not likely to be met. Not saying that will happen but none of our prospects are that much better or rather transformational than any other team’s. They are assets, until they become liabilities. The focus needs to turn from asset gathering to production and on ice improvement. It’s time.

 

[Jim Bob]

It makes sense if it makes the team better. That should go for anyone on a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in going on 13 years. You are correct there is no cap pressure currently, but there is the risk of devaluation of the asset if it appears the expectations are not likely to be met. Not saying that will happen but none of our prospects are that much better or rather transformational than any other team’s. They are assets, until they become liabilities. The focus needs to turn from asset gathering to production and on ice improvement. It’s time.

I have yet to see a trade idea involving Power that makes the Sabres meaningfully better over the length of time that Power's extension covers.

Even if you look over the next 2-3 years, most deals are pretty bad for the Sabres as they create a bigger hole than the one(s) they fill, IMO.

 

[Chainshot]

Adams start reminds me a bit of Botterill's start. All that is now missing will be frittering away draft picks on has beens or players who are measurably bad at hockey to help "right the ship".

He's at the difficult phase where he has to swap some of his shiny, unopened collectable toys for some piece of the real world before they lose value. I don't know if he has it in him and thus far, I don't think he does. Maybe he can change our minds. I wouldn't place a Shane Pinto proxy bet on that happening though.

 

[Tatanka]

I have yet to see a trade idea involving Power that makes the Sabres meaningfully better over the length of time that Power's extension covers.

Even if you look over the next 2-3 years, most deals are pretty bad for the Sabres as they create a bigger hole than the one(s) they fill, IMO.

Right now Power is all potential. If there is a trade for Top 6 C with production I have no issue trading the potential for production now. Then you can move one pf the Cs under contract lt and a trinket for a top four D. But waiting three years to see if the contract is “good” is doing nothing to right the ship in the near term. I really don’t care about good contracts. I want good players, preferably with fair contracts.

 

[Chainshot]

Regarding Power - it kinda keeps coming back to Larry Murphy for me. He moves the puck up the ice really well and is a strong passer/playmaker who sometimes has excellent pinches to scoring areas but there isn't much combat to his defending at all - none really. Strength will help because the times we see him initiate to pin someone out, he mostly does well. It would also help him with his speed and ability to shift people around the crease if he does get to the engagement. He's the sort of talent who may need his own blueline whisperer - think of how Robinson was as a coach, or Bowness's rep with his blueline - but I'm very clear that Wilford is NOT THAT GUY.

The transition game is always going to be excellent. Him mitigating his faults - the puck watching and the lack of defensive battle - is on him. He will never be a mangler, but if they can get him to be active with his reach and engaged more in his own zone, that would be very good. Can they though?

That's where I have the biggest questions. And I don't like how so many of them have trended this year.

 

[Perratrooper]

Out of curiosity, which of your 3 centers is the most likely to be moved? If the Sabres were to move one what sort of player would they be looking for?

 

[TehDoak]

Adams start reminds me a bit of Botterill's start. All that is now missing will be frittering away draft picks on has beens or players who are measurably bad at hockey to help "right the ship".

He's at the difficult phase where he has to swap some of his shiny, unopened collectable toys for some piece of the real world before they lose value. I don't know if he has it in him and thus far, I don't think he does. Maybe he can change our minds. I wouldn't place a Shane Pinto proxy bet on that happening though.

Adams problem is his 'let the kids play' philosophy was wrong from the get go.

Developing players isn't about getting TOI, though that is important.

It's about surrounding them with resources to further their own development. On the ice, off the ice, etc.

The veteran support is Skinner, Okposo, Girgesnons, Anderson, Tuch, and just this year, Eric Johnson.

Where can Rasmus Dahlin go if he needs help? What about Owen Power? Where can Peterka go? Who is showing them how to be NHLers?

Having a decent 'veteran' core isn't just about on ice performance, though that does help, it's about supporting the kids in their growth.

Adams inability to add quality veterans/coaches has been the death knell for his rebuild, at least this year.

The seasons we were at the cap floor, there was no reason not to look at short term veterans to help both on and off the ice. And it simply wasn't done. Ignored entirely. Gotta hoard the picks, gotta save the dollars.

 

[sabremike]

Right now Power is all potential. If there is a trade for Top 6 C with production I have no issue trading the potential for production now. Then you can move one pf the Cs under contract lt and a trinket for a top four D. But waiting three years to see if the contract is “good” is doing nothing to right the ship in the near term. I really don’t care about good contracts. I want good players, preferably with fair contracts.

The team could also hire a coach and staff who are actual credible NHL quality with track records to back it up. They could try that instead of yet another ill advised trade that ends up another LOLCOW style catastrophe that we specialize in no?

 

[Chainshot]

Adams problem is his 'let the kids play' philosophy was wrong from the get go.

Developing players isn't about getting TOI, though that is important.

It's about surrounding them with resources to further their own development. On the ice, off the ice, etc.

The veteran support is Skinner, Okposo, Girgesnons, Anderson, Tuch, and just this year, Eric Johnson.

Where can Rasmus Dahlin go if he needs help? What about Owen Power? Where can Peterka go? Who is showing them how to be NHLers?

Having a decent 'veteran' core isn't just about on ice performance, though that does help, it's about supporting the kids in their growth.

Adams inability to add quality veterans/coaches has been the death knell for his rebuild, at least this year.

The seasons we were at the cap floor, there was no reason not to look at short term veterans to help both on and off the ice. And it simply wasn't done. Ignored entirely. Gotta hoard the picks, gotta save the dollars.

One of the issues with the idea of anyone on short-term deals though is seeing what happened with both Hall and to an extent Staal (though he was in trade). Both mailed it in, completely. It's about finding someone who is going to play the way they need AND be a pro about being in Buffalo AND not sulk off under a rock if/when things are going poorly. There is evidence that guys who are well-regarded in the room will fold up like the proverbial cheap suit in the face of that task just a couple years ago.

 

[Chainshot]

Out of curiosity, which of your 3 centers is the most likely to be moved? If the Sabres were to move one what sort of player would they be looking for?

Unknown - Mittelstadt is RFA and has been their most productive 5-on-5 point producer for over a year now. If they move him, they don't have a proven replacement and the other two guys in the top three (Cozens and Thompson) have been dealing with injury and expectation.

 

[TageGod]

*Inevitable truth

I think this is why my enthusiasm for this team has been replaced by malaise. I no longer believe, "moves are coming next offseason". We've been telling ourselves that for the past 3 years, that NEXT offseason Kevyn will make the moves needed to make us a playoff team. But then the offseason comes and goes without Kevyn making the moves, and then the team disappoints and then the goalposts shift to "NEXT offseason" again.

What they've been doing for the past 3 years seems to be the only plan. Draft and develop. Rush most of the prospects to the NHL and then "develop" them with an Amateur coaching staff who are signed through 2026.

No meaningful addition of NHL players through UFA or trade. No replacement of the coaching staff.

I don't see Terry replacing Adams either, because Adams is giving Terry exactly what he wants from a GM.

The blind leading the blind in a never ending circle jerk of ineptitude.

They have only been rebuilding for 3 years. This was the first off-season I expected any movement.

 

[debaser66]

Unknown - Mittelstadt is RFA and has been their most productive 5-on-5 point producer for over a year now. If they move him, they don't have a proven replacement and the other two guys in the top three (Cozens and Thompson) have been dealing with injury and expectation.

the only excuse to move him is an even better center coming back in a deal. Same level or below is a loss and makes no sense at all (chemistry, willingness to be hear & probably more affordable then anything coming back)

 

[Chainshot]

the only excuse to move him is an even better center coming back in a deal. Same level or below is a loss and makes no sense at all (chemistry, willingness to be hear & probably more affordable then anything coming back)

At this time of year, that sort of deal tends not to be on the table. Mitts has been most productive and I would say versatile with his ability to slide up or down the lineup and still be productive in terms of shot share, etc.... as well as being their ES point leader and having the widest margin of advantage in GF/GA there. Cozens is only 22 and has a combination of size, speed, skill that one just does not trade on the heels of a single poor season. And Thompson seems to be the face of Granatoism and has said he wants to be a long-term part of the team.

I mean, they could push Krebs up the lineup if they move any of the three, but that's not a guarantee. Hell, they could push one of Cozens or Thompson back to wing and they still don't have a center ready to be a positive contributor at the NHL level IMO so they'd be pulling Jost back up from the Amerks or trying Kulich out in that spot or really grasping by putting Biro in with the whoever is leftover line wingers.

 

[TehDoak]

One of the issues with the idea of anyone on short-term deals though is seeing what happened with both Hall and to an extend Staal (though he was in trade). Both mailed it in, completely. It's about finding someone who is going to play the way they need AND be a pro about being in Buffalo AND not sulk off under a rock if/when things are going poorly. There is evidence that guys who are well-regarded in the room will fold up like the proverbial cheap suit in the face of that task just a couple years ago.

That's why being a GM is hard.

My issue is, at least from an outsiders point of view, cost was king. The team could have overpaid on short term for quality vets. Or even spent their picks to patch holes, evens in the mid term to improve the on ice product. The insistence of two years at the cap floor and not utilizing the picks showed a willingness to simply punt seasons away rather than any actual plan for improvement. Hoard picks, draft them all, and hope for the best, isn't a valid rebuild strategy.

And here we sit, the "higher expectations" year, wondering how this has all happened again, for the 13th time in a row.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

I am not a passive person, and when it comes to hockey, a “soft” player infuriates me. Hockey is a contact sport, at least it is on the NA ice size and in the NHL. So I looked up one of my worst memories of my Sabres….and I’ve been a fan since day 1. Nov 2011 is when Lucic ran over Miller. This team has not had an identity since.

My tiers:

Untouchable:
Dahlin

Do not wish to trade:
Cozins
Peterka
Kulich
I would put Quinn in here but injuries.

My personal opinion is that we need a heart and soul leader, that’s in his prime, that becomes the captain and face of the franchise. Obviously, there are very few of these guys…

We need that heart n soul guy, plus a fourth line tough as nails guy.

Obviously, summer trade but I would target:

1. Draisatle. Tage, Power + Rosen/Savoie + pick. Obviously, extension

2. Brady Tchuck. I think this could be a bigger trade, maybe with Giroux coming with.

3. I like Jenner but I’m not sure he’s enough of an identity shifter.

Once you make that trade, bring in a fiery coach like Torts. All our skill guys can then take a secondary role to him, which is where all of them need to be.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Perratrooper]

Unknown - Mittelstadt is RFA and has been their most productive 5-on-5 point producer for over a year now. If they move him, they don't have a proven replacement and the other two guys in the top three (Cozens and Thompson) have been dealing with injury and expectation.

So do you believe the Sabres would consider moving one of TT or Cozens to keep Mitts? Or how do fans view this “dilemma”?

What are the Sabres needs? From an outsiders perspective you have good center depth, some wingers, a decent d-core, but only okay goalies.

Would it be safe to assume it’s goalie and winger that Sabres fans would most want to get in return?

 

[Chainshot]

Interesting that PP2 is essentially the Mittelstadt line as they practiced today, sifting Peterka in.

PP1 looks like 4 guys who struggle to make quick passes and Dahlin.