Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Jim Bob]

Not sure I understand this? In theory the reason for getting these guys on 7-8 year deals now is that they are steals and are a huge cap advantage.

If we aren't extending Mitts today because the FO is afraid that it might get complicated in 8 years then we might as well board up the stadium windows and shut this whole thing down right now.

If Cozens had more than a 23 foot game and was scoring 40 goals and/or Power wasn't frolicking around out there most of us would understand that sometimes tough decisions need to be made. Hell, most of us lived through the Golisano era. We can rationalize letting guys walk better than most clubs.

But the issue is that Mitts has the best 200 foot game amongst our centers, and we might be rationalizing letting him walk because other contracts don't have any value yet.

Get Skinner out of here. Give Power/Cozens a year to add some value closer to their contracts. Then evaluate Mitts/Cozens/Power/JJP/Quinn/Levi as a group next year and move on from any two via trade or letting them walk.

If 24-25 looks like this year it won't be a difficuly decision to throw Power and Cozens on the trade block.

There is zero good reason not to extend Casey.

When the extensions for guys like Thompson, Samuelsson, and Cozens started happening, everyone knew that they would not be able to give everyone 6-8 year deals. Mitts has a deal that is expiring after the first 5 guys that got big extensions and before Quinn & JJP.

It could be that they felt like they could commit long term to 2 of the 3 centers and they bet on Thompson and Cozens.

 

[DeletedUser539]

I can see them continuing to ride that thought about Vic. The one thing Vic can provide is his shot. The rest though - Quinn's quickness and pace of play, his willingness to battle and contest pucks, his commitment to play in his own zone - is a marked step down.

I'd like to see them work some more folks into the PK rotation to see how they can do with it who aren't right now and could be interesting if they are up to it - Krebs and Peterka. Both have the skating to be pressure players if they choose to be. Stick details and such would be a work in progress, but getting more out of Krebs place on the team in more important minutes might be a challenge he steps up into and Peterka has that ability to turn a loose puck into an opportunity.

I guess while I like Thompson's development into a PKer, the injury on the PK and his other struggles have me leaning toward reducing his responsibilities and energy to being stronger 5-on-5. It might also be that Don wants the thread of Thompson as a possible short-handed rush creator out there - along with all that reach. I also know that I don't want to see Okposo on the PK any more. The burst is gone, he can't get to the lane or puck carrier fast enough to be disruptive any more so don't sag back into familiar habits.

Has vics shot really been that impacful or useful so far this year and our pp hasn't benefited from it at all and doesn't have an opportunity to get it off that much at all this year if there is an attempted shots per 60 he is probably one of the lowest on the team maybe even league

 

[Chainshot]

Has vics shot really been that impacful or useful so far this year and our pp hasn't benefited from it at all and doesn't have an opportunity to get it off that much at all this year if there is an attempted shots per 60 he is probably one of the lowest on the team maybe even league

Vic is a shot option and that's all. There isn't enough quickness or combativeness to be good at retrieval, he is constantly looking for a soft area to settle in awaiting the puck. So if the unit is force-feeding him one-timers to launch from inside the faceoff circle, he's a non-factor on the PP. He doesn't look to pass in those situations either - part of why the idea of loading him on one side and Tage on the other doesn't really work is that there is only one player trying to feed that pass (the high hub, played by Dahlin on PP1 or Power on PP2) and teams have done work on shutting that down not just against Buffalo but around the league. Vic also doesn't fight to get his stick free in the slot as a bumper option so even if they had a guy who could create from the half-wall to him as a shot option, he's not prone to being there to do something.

As for shots per 60, he's 8th among Sabre forwards at 5-on-5:

 

[Old Navy Goat]

The problem on the PP is that there isn't that dual threat, no one has a cannon and the ability to thread a pass so teams can cheat.

You look at Tampa and you cheat on Kucherov and that puck is gone, either to Point or Stamkos. Don't cheat and pray he flubs the one timer

 

[HOOats]

With Quinn out the balance of the season, I've seen talk of Kulich getting called up but I'm really against it. Even aside from reports that he's searching for his AHL offense at the moment. I hate to cheer on MLB-style service time manipulation, but sliding his ELC to age 20-21-22 seasons (like 77 and 22) would help with the much debated future cap crunch in seasons that will hopefully matter.

When JJ and Quinn are on big boy contracts, Kulich's AAV will help moderate our scoring wing expenditure for two years. In the meantime, give Jiri nine games at the end of the year if he's earned it and Roch isn't in need.

 

[Chainshot]

The problem on the PP is that there isn't that dual threat, no one has a cannon and the ability to thread a pass so teams can cheat.

You look at Tampa and you cheat on Kucherov and that puck is gone, either to Point or Stamkos. Don't cheat and pray he flubs the one timer

That's where Quinn should be a weapon and once Benson's shot comes in since he has that ability to pass to either side from the bumper spot.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

That's where Quinn should be a weapon and once Benson's shot comes in since he has that ability to pass to either side from the bumper spot.

I agree but the problem was when they had Quinn on PP1 he was on the right and typically hugging the blue line so was completely neutered. PP2 hardly ever gets consistent O zone time as their entries suck so you can't say how they're setting up

 

[debaser66]

Not sure someone like Jiricek has the right attitude to be injected into a team of underperformers.
You net less characters like that not more.

“They told me the last game was not good enough for me,” Jiricek said. “I told them I don’t think so, but that’s your opinion. I was out of the lineup after that. A whole month now, it feels like I haven’t played.”

 

[joshjull]

I think the only thing that would be holding Buffalo up from giving Casey that sort of deal, is their own internal budget/cap, and possibly how they as an organization feel about him.

I wasn’t commenting on why he wasn’t signed yet. Just that there is no issue with them giving him a 7x7+deal.

But since you’re bringing it up. The most likely reason is Mitts chose to bet on himself. He wasn’t in a position to get a 7x7+ deal last summer. But he will be next offseason with his play this year and arbitration eligibility.

I think sometimes we get too focused on the GM and forget the players always have a say in these things.

 

[joshjull]

He's definitely not your traditional 200' center -- he's arguably average at it. Problem is, it' the team's greatest need and he's closest to filling that role.

Adams may be trying to find an actual two-way center; but until he has real one, Mitts is always going to be slightly difficult to give up from a roster balance perspective.

Mitts is a good two way center and the best on the team. But the one who should be the best is Cozens. He has the skillset to be a great one. But we don’t see a development focus for that.

If Cozens ever puts it together, he and Mitts would be a great one two punch

 

[OkimLom]

I wasn’t commenting on why he wasn’t signed yet. Just that there is no issue with them giving him a 7x7+deal.

But since you’re bringing it up. The most likely reason is Mitts chose to bet on himself. He wasn’t in a position to get a 7x7+ deal last summer. But he will be next offseason with his play this year and arbitration eligibility.

I think sometimes we get too focused on the GM and forget the players always have a say in these things.

I get what you're saying and I agree with what you are saying here. But you read my post wrong. I was just commenting on what I believe could be factors that would be holding things up from Buffalo's perspective (giving Casey such a long term deal, at a decent size cap hit).

 

[TageGod]

The problem on the PP is that there isn't that dual threat, no one has a cannon and the ability to thread a pass so teams can cheat.

You look at Tampa and you cheat on Kucherov and that puck is gone, either to Point or Stamkos. Don't cheat and pray he flubs the one timer

Peterka Cozens and Quinn all have excellent shots and for the most part (should) be good passers.

 

[Chainshot]

Not sure someone like Jiricek has the right attitude to be injected into a team of underperformers.
You net less characters like that not more.

“They told me the last game was not good enough for me,” Jiricek said. “I told them I don’t think so, but that’s your opinion. I was out of the lineup after that. A whole month now, it feels like I haven’t played.”

I can understand why he's PO'd though - they've yo-yo'd him up and down from Cleveland and in and out of the lineup without seemingly any plan. I don't necessarily agree about his offensive game but if Jarmo had been clear about his development path and then stuck with it, I doubt the kid ever has the chance to put his foot in his mouth like this. For their faults, Buffalo's development communication does seem pretty clearly laid out and the players have gotten behind it without falling into the sort of rhetoric Jiricek put forth.

And I'd love it if they could find a Mikey Anderson or Ryan Lindgren type to plug into their top 4 rather than necessarily looking for high-end prospects to do that job. Find some player(s) who are good at defending and can hold their own in moving the puck, then get them on reasonable deals.

 

[Chainshot]

I agree but the problem was when they had Quinn on PP1 he was on the right and typically hugging the blue line so was completely neutered. PP2 hardly ever gets consistent O zone time as their entries suck so you can't say how they're setting up

Coaching continues to be a massive issue since they aren't putting personnel together to overcome the problem at hand. They want to keep trying the same things - the flanker one-timer, set up from the point man - because it used to work. They haven't caught on that almost everyone is defending that play better now, that the teams working well are utilizing their bumper for play making to either side and have a distinct set of plays at or to the crease.

I would love to see Quinn on one flank and Benson as the bumper. Leave Tuch as the screen option and Thompson on the other side, but work on having Thompson actually go to the net at times when he's not got the puck. Tage and Vic both are prone to doing the same things - sagging into open ice away from coverage rather than trying to get into harder areas to convert on other's shots or impose in close. Again, that's a PP coaching thing - there is no demand for the flankers to work to the back post, no demand to attack the net. Drives me f***ing nuts.

 

[DeletedUser539]

Vic is a shot option and that's all. There isn't enough quickness or combativeness to be good at retrieval, he is constantly looking for a soft area to settle in awaiting the puck. So if the unit is force-feeding him one-timers to launch from inside the faceoff circle, he's a non-factor on the PP. He doesn't look to pass in those situations either - part of why the idea of loading him on one side and Tage on the other doesn't really work is that there is only one player trying to feed that pass (the high hub, played by Dahlin on PP1 or Power on PP2) and teams have done work on shutting that down not just against Buffalo but around the league. Vic also doesn't fight to get his stick free in the slot as a bumper option so even if they had a guy who could create from the half-wall to him as a shot option, he's not prone to being there to do something.

As for shots per 60, he's 8th among Sabre forwards at 5-on-5:

View attachment 812602

Significant drop off after tuch but guys 9-12 bring more to the game than shot contributions where as that is VO's role and what he is supposed to excel at

 

[Chainshot]

Significant drop off after tuch but guys 9-12 bring more to the game than shot contributions where as that is VO's role and what he is supposed to excel at

Yep. Too much of his game is standing around, waiting for others to get him the puck and not much else.

 

[TehDoak]

Coaching continues to be a massive issue since they aren't putting personnel together to overcome the problem at hand. They want to keep trying the same things - the flanker one-timer, set up from the point man - because it used to work. They haven't caught on that almost everyone is defending that play better now, that the teams working well are utilizing their bumper for play making to either side and have a distinct set of plays at or to the crease.

I would love to see Quinn on one flank and Benson as the bumper. Leave Tuch as the screen option and Thompson on the other side, but work on having Thompson actually go to the net at times when he's not got the puck. Tage and Vic both are prone to doing the same things - sagging into open ice away from coverage rather than trying to get into harder areas to convert on other's shots or impose in close. Again, that's a PP coaching thing - there is no demand for the flankers to work to the back post, no demand to attack the net. Drives me f***ing nuts.

It's crazy to me. I don't catch every game, so I will turn on a game in the background while I'm doing dad stuff after the kids go to bed and the PP will come on and I will be "Oh, still trying to do that one timer eh Sabres?"

 

[TehDoak]

When the extensions for guys like Thompson, Samuelsson, and Cozens started happening, everyone knew that they would not be able to give everyone 6-8 year deals. Mitts has a deal that is expiring after the first 5 guys that got big extensions and before Quinn & JJP.

It could be that they felt like they could commit long term to 2 of the 3 centers and they bet on Thompson and Cozens.

Well, this is the problem with having a 1st time GM with no real experienced people to talk with about planning.

The 1st year of a big contract is almost always a step back for players. Just like if your salary 7x'd overnight, you'd probably struggle with the lifestyle changes, its the same for Hockey players.

The only two real 'market' deals Adams has done was Cozens and Dahlin. They were top of market for them, sure, but logical.

The Thompson deal was a dice roll that paid off, at least so far. I think next year we need to see him closer to his production from last year, but if he's just a big bodied, 70-80 pt guy every year, that'll be a good value.

The Samuelsson and Power deals made zero sense at the time and still make zero sense. Giving players with little experience both cash and term when they've earned neither with no real external issues is just shooting yourself in the foot for no reason.

When you are a bad team like the Sabres, you probably identify one or two players long term to lock up. Everything else should be looking to maintain flexibility until there is some level of team success. (winning a playoff round or two at a minimum). Then you know who your core is and who to lock up. Handing out long term deals to young players early is as likely to save you money as it is to cause you issues.

 

[SundherDome]

Well, this is the problem with having a 1st time GM with no real experienced people to talk with about planning.

The 1st year of a big contract is almost always a step back for players. Just like if your salary 7x'd overnight, you'd probably struggle with the lifestyle changes, its the same for Hockey players.

The only two real 'market' deals Adams has done was Cozens and Dahlin. They were top of market for them, sure, but logical.

The Thompson deal was a dice roll that paid off, at least so far. I think next year we need to see him closer to his production from last year, but if he's just a big bodied, 70-80 pt guy every year, that'll be a good value.

The Samuelsson and Power deals made zero sense at the time and still make zero sense. Giving players with little experience both cash and term when they've earned neither with no real external issues is just shooting yourself in the foot for no reason.

When you are a bad team like the Sabres, you probably identify one or two players long term to lock up. Everything else should be looking to maintain flexibility until there is some level of team success. (winning a playoff round or two at a minimum). Then you know who your core is and who to lock up. Handing out long term deals to young players early is as likely to save you money as it is to cause you issues.

I don't really understand the post tbh. Adams has done a great job identifying value, there is no crystal ball out there that says how a player reacts to an extension. Ideally, they play the same game and cash bigger checks. I really have no issues with any of the extensions handed out sans maybe Power but the gamble is that he figures it out as he just turned 21 two months ago and is still on pace for his rookie production ..again at age 21.

 

[TehDoak]

I don't really understand the post tbh. Adams has done a great job identifying value, there is no crystal ball out there that says how a player reacts to an extension. Ideally, they play the same game and cash bigger checks. I really have no issues with any of the extensions handed out sans maybe Power but the gamble is that he figures it out as he just turned 21 two months ago and is still on pace for his rookie production ..again at age 21.

They gave Samuelsson a six year deal with less than a seasons worth of experience. Not a lick of logic there. No cash savings, just here, we think you are going to be good eventually, we are going to pay for it now.

For Power, he had zero leverage as a RFA. Can't offer sheet, can't go to arb, nothing. He had zero leverage other than a hold out. They could have easily just bridged him rather than giving him 58M dollars. There was nothing he could have done this year short of winning the Norris that would demand so much money so quickly. Just another case of Adams saying "Well, I HOPE you are great! We are going to pay you like you are anyways!"

Cozens/Dahlin, those are market rates

Thompson was a dice roll.

The point is though, you shouldn't be handing out 5 year+ deals like candy until you have team success. 1 or 2 tops. Flexibility is the name of the game now, not locking up a core that hasn't won anything.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Reading the Athletic's trade deadline article from two days ago:

NHL trade deadline 2024: Which player (or pick) each team is most likely to deal

Some players I'd take a look at:

John Beecher, Boston. I think he cold be a really effective 4C type that grinds. He might not reach his draft potential but he could be a better version of Colton Sissons. The Sabres need that type of player.

Philip Broberg, Edmonton. Maybe Edmonton looks for NHL roster upgrades and moves on from Broberg. I think Broberg is a big, mobile defender who isn't going to be amazing offensively. Change of scenery type of trade?

Oliver Wahlstrom, Islanders. Big, strong winger with a great shot and good a net front play. Not the same player since getting hurt so maybe he just needs a different opportunity.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I‘d say the biggest reason is probably the PP. There are other issues but that one stands out.

Compare us to our next opponent, Tampa, who is in a wild card spot.

5v5 GF/60
Tampa -> 22nd
Buffalo -> 11th

5v5 GA/60
Tampa-> 28th
Buffalo -> 21st

5v5 SV%
Tampa -> 29th
Buffalo -> 28th

PP rank
Tampa -> 1st
Buffalo -> 27th

PK rank
Tampa -> 14th
Buffalo -> 16th


Records
Tampa -> 45gms 23-17-5 = 51pts (In a wild card spot)
Buffalo -> 45gms

The problem on the PP is that there isn't that dual threat, no one has a cannon and the ability to thread a pass so teams can cheat.

You look at Tampa and you cheat on Kucherov and that puck is gone, either to Point or Stamkos. Don't cheat and pray he flubs the one timer

The problem on the Sabres PP is they take a pass stand still for 5 secs until the defense resets then try to force a pass through a defender so that the guy receiving the pass can stand there for 5 secs while everyone resets so that they can force the pass back to Dahlin at the top of the arc so that he can go back to holding the puck for 5secs before he tries to force a pass through a defender. Eventually Dahlin gets bored and just shoots the damn thing and maybe we get a good scoring chance of the rebound/deflection putting the defense out of position.

That’s basically our pp.

This team is as passive, calm, and controlled as their coach. Never an ounce of urgency until they’re down 2 with 4 mins to play.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Yup...

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Coaching continues to be a massive issue since they aren't putting personnel together to overcome the problem at hand. They want to keep trying the same things - the flanker one-timer, set up from the point man - because it used to work. They haven't caught on that almost everyone is defending that play better now, that the teams working well are utilizing their bumper for play making to either side and have a distinct set of plays at or to the crease.

I would love to see Quinn on one flank and Benson as the bumper. Leave Tuch as the screen option and Thompson on the other side, but work on having Thompson actually go to the net at times when he's not got the puck. Tage and Vic both are prone to doing the same things - sagging into open ice away from coverage rather than trying to get into harder areas to convert on other's shots or impose in close. Again, that's a PP coaching thing - there is no demand for the flankers to work to the back post, no demand to attack the net. Drives me f***ing nuts.

Whenever the coach is asked about stuff like this, he says he can't really change things mid-season because he has no practice time. Do you really need a lot of practice time to change special team strategies? (Legit question, I can see where he might have a point there).

 

[Irie]

Whenever the coach is asked about stuff like this, he says he can't really change things mid-season because he has no practice time. Do you really need a lot of practice time to change special team strategies? (Legit question, I can see where he might have a point there).

No. Teams do it all the time and it more than often pays off.

Sounds like an excuse for "My staff and I don't know how to fix what is broken, so we're making crap up to buy us more time"