Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[HaNotsri]

With Quinn going out, it seems like this would be the time to bring up one of their scoring line winger prospects to give them some run in a role that isn't shuffling around with Tyson Jost and Vic Olofsson.

It's not going to happen but I'd prefer to make a serious move for Jenner. He could help with the team culture and overall softness. I'd like to add Sturm as well.

If you look at Pageau, Konecny, Kadri, Wood and other we've wanted over the years they have all had peaks or impactful roles on their teams. I don't have a target like that right now but Jenner and Sturm could help us build an actual hockey team.

 

[StrompTroller]

It's not going to happen but I'd prefer to make a serious move for Jenner. He could help with the team culture and overall softness. I'd like to add Sturm as well.

If you look at Pageau, Konecny, Kadri, Wood and other we've wanted over the years they have all had peaks or impactful roles on their teams. I don't have a target like that right now but Jenner and Sturm could help us build an actual hockey team.

we dont like players with toughness around here! Now get out!

 

[Chainshot]

It's not going to happen but I'd prefer to make a serious move for Jenner. He could help with the team culture and overall softness. I'd like to add Sturm as well.

If you look at Pageau, Konecny, Kadri, Wood and other we've wanted over the years they have all had peaks or impactful roles on their teams. I don't have a target like that right now but Jenner and Sturm could help us build an actual hockey team.

That seems like a deal that would be over the summer. Jenner is already being talked about by some hockey rabid markets as the piece needed to move ahead (okay, specifically Vancouver) but there are others that could use him if they could make the cap work like Colorado who are seeking a 2nd line center for another Cup run.

There is so little bite to the Sabres game and so few who are self-motivated enough to start games in a foul mood that draws them all into the fight. And finding guys like that to fill out a mid-line role at the trade deadline seems like an expensive order. Can their one pro scout turn up something even better than what they've added in the last 10 months (Greenway and Robinson) who are their two most physical players at forward?

So there is the issue of cost if the player is established and the issue of identification if the player is not. I don't see them paying the premium for the former and while there is a little bit of evidence that they can find some people who play up to their size, I don't sense that the GM is going to do that.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

I don't think you can bridge Mittelstadt without bringing him to UFA status, unless you're talking a one year deal which IMO is pretty weak and lame and reflective of the Reinhart scenario.

Giving him a fair long-term deal is reasonable and fits in their cap structure just fine. You wait on the rest of the Cs and Ostlund to see where you're at. If somehow cap becomes an issue (which should be a bridge crossed when you get there) then a great option is to bridge Quinn and Peterka for two years, and give them long-term deals when Skinner's contract expires that same summer.

I'm gonna sound like a jerk, but this doesn't sound like a complicated problem to solve. The only hard part is eventually evaluating if Ostlund should displace any of them in a couple years.

I think retaining Mitts long term is totally possible.. The issues is the timing with Peterka, Quinn, and Levi coming due in the same year and Cozens/Power seemingly playing well below their contract value at the moment.

It feels like the FO is trying to predict a tomorrow problem today.

You sign Mitts to whatever it takes and you re-evaluate in a season or two. If Cozens/Power still look lost/make a huge leap you move on from the pieces you need to at the appropriate time. But as of right now JJP, Mitts, and Peterka are our 3 best forwards by a wide margin. Letting one go because Cozens could kinda, sorta, maybe, hopefully be in that group instead is bonkers.

 

[HaNotsri]

That seems like a deal that would be over the summer. Jenner is already being talked about by some hockey rabid markets as the piece needed to move ahead (okay, specifically Vancouver) but there are others that could use him if they could make the cap work like Colorado who are seeking a 2nd line center for another Cup run.

There is so little bite to the Sabres game and so few who are self-motivated enough to start games in a foul mood that draws them all into the fight. And finding guys like that to fill out a mid-line role at the trade deadline seems like an expensive order. Can their one pro scout turn up something even better than what they've added in the last 10 months (Greenway and Robinson) who are their two most physical players at forward?

So there is the issue of cost if the player is established and the issue of identification if the player is not. I don't see them paying the premium for the former and while there is a little bit of evidence that they can find some people who play up to their size, I don't sense that the GM is going to do that.

I don't see us making any serious moves but looking at the prospect pipeline we're not turning a corner anytime soon unless we make a couple of expensive trades where we might lose on "value."

I haven't watched Savoie much so I don't know about him. Östlund is one player that could help us become a winning team but he's not playing with much snarl or physicality.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

A 32 year old with a 4-year extension that kicks in next year? Ugh, he might be worth it for one season, but by the end of that contract... nope. We've seen how Okposo hasn't aged well into his 30s. Not going to trust that Foligno, that plays a much more physical game than OK does will age well.

Yes, the cap is going up, but so is Dahlin (+5M / year), Power (+7.4M/year), not to mention the RFAs like Mitts, Krebs, and UPL that are going to need raises this offseason.

That cap increase is going to get eaten up much more quickly than we'd like.

I'm not saying I love that contract, but a 4 mill contract 4 years from now is not going to be a huge deal. We paid Okposo 6 for a long time with a lower cap in a similar role and it prevented nothing.

People wanted to trade and pay Meier way more than that long term and I argued that was a bad idea due to the cap, so I am fully aware of the cap's importance as the roster is built out.

We are in great shape cap wise, so we can take a minor risk like 4x4 in order to add something we really need. If there's a younger, cheaper player out there that accomplishes the same, I'm all for it, but Foligno is also one I'd do.

Is he good in his role? Is that role something we need? Can we afford his contract now and in the future?

If all answers are yes, I'm good with it, regardless of player. I think people get too caught up in the details on some of the proposals. The perfect deal may not be out there. We need to improve the roster.

 

[StrompTroller]

I'm not saying I love that contract, but a 4 mill contract 4 years from now is not going to be a huge deal. We paid Okposo 6 for a long time with a lower cap in a similar role and it prevented nothing.

People wanted to trade and pay Meier way more than that long term and I argued that was a bad idea due to the cap, so I am fully aware of the cap's importance as the roster is built out.

We are in great shape cap wise, so we can take a minor risk like 4x4 in order to add something we really need. If there's a younger, cheaper player out there that accomplishes the same, I'm all for it, but Foligno is also one I'd do.

Is he good in his role? Is that role something we need? Can we afford his contract now and in the future?

If all answers are yes, I'm good with it, regardless of player. I think people get too caught up in the details on some of the proposals. The perfect deal may not be out there. We need to improve the roster.

I wanna take a moment and apologize. Foligno is my fav player so every chance I get I take a jab at bringing him back because it was a ridiculous trade when it happened. he was my profile pic for like 10 years lol. I was more just making fun of myself and my obsession than genuinely proposing we bring him back. I mean I wouldnt be mad at all but the others are right his contract is not one a smart GM would touch...

 

[TehDoak]

That doesn‘t really matter much.

What will are the 4 RFA years + 3 UFA years in Cozens 7yr deal.

A 7 year deal for Mitts would be 1 RFA year + 6 UFA years. Having double the amount of UFA years will easily bring Mitts deal to the same level or above Cozens’

Cozens has been more productive at a younger age.

Honestly the Cozens deal has little
Impact on the Mittelstadt deal. I don’t think Mittelstadt will get more than Cozens even though this season he’s been better than him. CM doesn’t have great arbitration comps due to his early career struggles.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Here is the question, "Do you want to try to compete next season?"

I ask because if Mitts gets the deal you are talking about, the team has 19M for 2 goalies, 2 D and 5 forwards.

UPL is going to likely get a hefty raise. If he falters some, the discussion changes.

Is Levi ready to be the backup on a more competitive team, or does he need another year of seasoning in the A?

This is why I think cap planning is so important, even now.

I wouldn't mind seeing Adams bring in a 1B vet goalie and Levi start the season in Rochester. I think it was fine for Levi to get some Pro experience this season, and now I think he knows what he has to work on to improve and I think Rochester is a great place for him to do that. Not certain I want to rely on him to be a solid backup (or starter if UPL faulters) next year.

I expect re-signing UPL and bringing in a short-term vet to total up to a combined 6M or so in goal. That leaves 13M for 2 defensemen and 5 forwards.

We know this team can't compete if they are going to play another 4 or 5 ELC players regularly on top of all the youth that is already here. Adams is going to have to bring in some money to bolster the bottom 6. Cap is going to be a challenge.

I know you mentioned trading a big contract to accommodate Mitts, which may be the solution, but all these moves require careful cap planning now, and the moves need to be smart.

At the risk of being pedantic, I think Levi still needs a year of seasoning in the AHL before we can decide if he needs "another year".

He played 3 games!

The way he talked about how his first couple days in Rochester were transcendent to his game only proved to me that he needs a lot of time to bake down there.

 

[StrompTroller]

I will be the first to admit I have watched less actual games this year than I have in 2 decades...(everyone has given their reasons in Chain's sell the team thread). I also have a newborn so of course this pathetic team is not gonna compete for my time I share. That being said...

I really don't think Mitts is gonna make or break this organization one way or the other. If we sign him to say 5x6 or 6x5 lol then whatever he's been productive for sure. If we trade him for a decent haul especially in a hockey deal for a top 4 dman then great. I'm staying out of this battle amidst the boards.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Cozens has been more productive at a younger age.

Honestly the Cozens deal has little
Impact on the Mittelstadt deal. I don’t think Mittelstadt will get more than Cozens even though this season he’s been better than him. CM doesn’t have great arbitration comps due to his early career struggles.

Not arguing his pay, but I will argue his value to this roster the last 500 days or so. By the back stretch of last season Mitts game was much better than Cozens by a wide margin. Cozens was not better than Mitts for the entirety of 2022-23. Maybe not even for half of it.

A lot of talk last year about how Cozens had to "carry the kids line". But after watching this year and Cozens struggle all over the line up, Peterka and Quinn are carrying Cozens.

Not sure I would die on this hill, but it wouldn't be outlandish to say that JJP/Peterka were better players than Cozens last year, but not good enough to carry/elevate him. But this year they are. And if that is the case, he is making too much money right now.

With the season all but over and Quinn out again I think it is time to move Cozens to the wing.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

I wanna take a moment and apologize. Foligno is my fav player so every chance I get I take a jab at bringing him back because it was a ridiculous trade when it happened. he was my profile pic for like 10 years lol. I was more just making fun of myself and my obsession than genuinely proposing we bring him back. I mean I wouldnt be mad at all but the others are right his contract is not one a smart GM would touch...

Not sure why you're apologizing. I get that people will disagree. I think you're wrong, lol.

4x4 wouldn't be a smart add for some teams, sure. If we were against the cap, didn't have our core pieces locked up yet, didn't need team toughness, etc. It wouldn't be a smart add.

I'm talking about the 2023 Sabres though, and trying to be pragmatic, not just applying the usual conservative cap dogma.

For me, Foligno was brought up and he is just one of many options that would improve the roster that I'd be ok with.

 

[Chainshot]

I wanna take a moment and apologize. Foligno is my fav player so every chance I get I take a jab at bringing him back because it was a ridiculous trade when it happened. he was my profile pic for like 10 years lol. I was more just making fun of myself and my obsession than genuinely proposing we bring him back. I mean I wouldnt be mad at all but the others are right his contract is not one a smart GM would touch...

Yeah, I love Marcus and how he has grown in Minnesota. But that contract is just not something the Sabres can swing even, especially given how physical players usually drop off a cliff when they finally hit the wall. The last thing they need is Wayne Simmonds 2.0 but at $4M+ AAV.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

Yeah, I love Marcus and how he has grown in Minnesota. But that contract is just not something the Sabres can swing even, especially given how physical players usually drop off a cliff when they finally hit the wall. The last thing they need is Wayne Simmonds 2.0 but at $4M+ AAV.

Ran this through cap friendly just to illustrate. Here I've been very generous and signed Peterka, Quinn, Mitts to 7 mill each, given Levi 4.5, re-signed Johnson long term and filled out the roster to make it ice-able.

Even with all that and no other moves, we're basically right at the projected cap for 2 seasons from now. And then the cap will go up again every year, and more salary will come off the books every year, including Foligno's before too long.

It's tight, but it's going to be tight to re-sign all our young players anyway, and it's still doable with Foligno. We could make it work.

Another thing this exercise shows, which people aren't recognizing, is that Foligno or not, we simply can't re-sign all of our young forwards to long term deals. In the below scenario, we still haven't signed Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Ostlund, Benson. That problem exists regardless of whether you overpay slightly for Foligno or not.

It's for this reason, that I'd be looking to give Mitts 3 o;r 4 years max. If we're not going to trade him for help on D, we need to maintain as much flexibility as possible with our biggest cap hits. Fortunately, I think Mitts would sign with us for 3 or 4 years if we told him that's the best we could do. Signing him for longer term might achieve slightly better value on the back-end, but we need roster flexibility over the next few years waaay more than we need a million or two in cap space 6 years from now.

And before anyone says, "then why are you willing to lock into Foligno for 4 years,
' I'll repeat myself, Foligno isn't option #1 to fill that role, but it's an option that certainly isn't going to kill us in the long run because even overpaid, his cap hit is still comparatively small and the term relatively short. And unlike Mitts, he brings something that we don't have in our prospects.

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (12)
Right Wing: Alex Tuch ($4,750,000) - Jack Quinn ($7,000,000) - Jiri Kulich ($918,333) - Marcus Foligno ($4,000,000)
Centre: Tage Thompson ($7,142,857) - Dylan Cozens ($7,100,000) - Casey Mittelstadt ($7,000,000) - Tyson Kozak ($800,000)
Left Wing: Jeff Skinner ($9,000,000) - John-Jason Peterka ($7,000,000) - Matthew Savoie ($918,333) - Zach Benson ($950,000)

DEFENSE (6)
Right: Ryan Johnson ($3,500,000) - Nikita Novikov ($867,500) - Connor Clifton ($3,333,333)
Left: Rasmus Dahlin ($11,000,000) - Owen Power ($8,350,000) - Mattias Samuelsson ($4,285,714)

GOALTENDER (2)
Devon Levi ($4,500,000)

BUYOUTS (1)
Christian Ehrhoff ($0)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $92,000,000
Cap Hit: $92,416,070
Cap Space: -$416,070

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Cozens has been more productive at a younger age.

Honestly the Cozens deal has little
Impact on the Mittelstadt deal. I don’t think Mittelstadt will get more than Cozens even though this season he’s been better than him. CM doesn’t have great arbitration comps due to his early career struggles.

You can't take him to arbitration or he can simply opt for the option that walks him to UFA. He's going to put up 70+ as a 200' 2C so his value league wide is definitely over 7mil per. Even going by arbitration numbers, they'd look at his last couple seasons and the upward trend is much more important than his screwed up development years

 

[Djp]

Ran this through cap friendly just to illustrate. Here I've been very generous and signed Peterka, Quinn, Mitts to 7 mill each, given Levi 4.5, re-signed Johnson long term and filled out the roster to make it ice-able.

Even with all that and no other moves, we're basically right at the projected cap for 2 seasons from now. And then the cap will go up again every year, and more salary will come off the books every year, including Foligno's before too long.

It's tight, but it's going to be tight to re-sign all our young players anyway, and it's still doable with Foligno. We could make it work.

Another thing this exercise shows, which people aren't recognizing, is that Foligno or not, we simply can't re-sign all of our young forwards to long term deals. In the below scenario, we still haven't signed Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Ostlund, Benson. That problem exists regardless of whether you overpay slightly for Foligno or not.

It's for this reason, that I'd be looking to give Mitts 3 o;r 4 years max. If we're not going to trade him for help on D, we need to maintain as much flexibility as possible with our biggest cap hits. Fortunately, I think Mitts would sign with us for 3 or 4 years if we told him that's the best we could do. Signing him for longer term might achieve slightly better value on the back-end, but we need roster flexibility over the next few years waaay more than we need a million or two in cap space 6 years from now.

And before anyone says, "then why are you willing to lock into Foligno for 4 years,
' I'll repeat myself, Foligno isn't option #1 to fill that role, but it's an option that certainly isn't going to kill us in the long run because even overpaid, his cap hit is still comparatively small and the term relatively short. And unlike Mitts, he brings something that we don't have in our prospects.

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (12)
Right Wing: Alex Tuch ($4,750,000) - Jack Quinn ($7,000,000) - Jiri Kulich ($918,333) - Marcus Foligno ($4,000,000)
Centre: Tage Thompson ($7,142,857) - Dylan Cozens ($7,100,000) - Casey Mittelstadt ($7,000,000) - Tyson Kozak ($800,000)
Left Wing: Jeff Skinner ($9,000,000) - John-Jason Peterka ($7,000,000) - Matthew Savoie ($918,333) - Zach Benson ($950,000)

DEFENSE (6)
Right: Ryan Johnson ($3,500,000) - Nikita Novikov ($867,500) - Connor Clifton ($3,333,333)
Left: Rasmus Dahlin ($11,000,000) - Owen Power ($8,350,000) - Mattias Samuelsson ($4,285,714)

GOALTENDER (2)
Devon Levi ($4,500,000)

BUYOUTS (1)
Christian Ehrhoff ($0)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $92,000,000
Cap Hit: $92,416,070
Cap Space: -$416,070

This is f***ing nuts

Firstboff …you need a full roster. 12/6/1 is not a legal roster

they are going to give bridges to the young players and let them compete and then decide on who to keep.

in 2026 you have Benson sn RFA and Tuch is a UFA.

 

[thewookie1]

I could see Mitts getting something akin to 3x6mil which would set him up with a payday opportunity while still under 30.

 

[joshjull]

I will be the first to admit I have watched less actual games this year than I have in 2 decades...(everyone has given their reasons in Chain's sell the team thread). I also have a newborn so of course this pathetic team is not gonna compete for my time I share. That being said...

I really don't think Mitts is gonna make or break this organization one way or the other. If we sign him to say 5x6 or 6x5 lol then whatever he's been productive for sure. If we trade him for a decent haul especially in a hockey deal for a top 4 dman then great. I'm staying out of this battle amidst the boards.

Congrats!!!!

 

[joshjull]

The Mitts debate in here is nuts.

There is no reason they can‘t sign him for 7x7+mil (Similar to Tage/Cozens). Assuming that’s what they want to do.

The cap is not an issue. NHL teams don’t worry about their cap 2-3 years down the line when signing their top guys. Hell they usually don’t care how signing them impacts them the next season. They just get their guy signed and figure it out after (trade, LTIR, etc). Whether you agree with that or not, it‘s how the league operates. It’s also why we have Cup champs with payrolls 10-20mil above the upper limit.

 

[joshjull]

I don't know what criteria you use for "natural" center, but we have two other guys who have had great to dominant seasons playing at center and haven't played as good this year. I guess you could say they're playing at a more of a Mitts (prior to this year) level this year, but that doesn't mean they aren't good Centers, despite your hyperbole.

I don't need the team to trade Mitts, but the biggest hole on the roster was, and continues to be top 4D. If we can't trade one of our top prospects for one as people told me last year, and we can't trade from a surplus of talent at a different position either, then there is zero hope of ever filling that hole any time soon, and zero hope taking the next step as a team.

Yes, Mitts is having a good year. No, it is not crazy, or short-sighted to consider trading him. Short-sighted would be unwillingness to move assets with value now for pieces that can help us more long term. To be honest, I wouldn't mind a little more short-sightedness from Adams, but since a top 4d also helps us now, I consider trading Mitts for a good defenseman a good move for the short and long term.

This take is a relic from last offseason when many were clamoring for an upgrade to our #4 dman. Worrying that it would be a big issue.

But the real issue or “biggest hole“ ended up being the underperforming top 4 forwards (Skinner/Tage/Tuch/Cozens) and top 3 dmen (Dahlin/Sammy/Power). Their poor play, injuries or both are what put us into the hole we started the season in.

We can upgrade our #4 dman if you like. But I’m not wasting an asset as valuable as Mitts to do so. It would be terrible asset management.

 

[StrompTroller]

Congrats!!!!

Thanks my friend! She's our first so its all very exciting

 

[TageGod]

So Greenway was mentioned in trade rumors. Curious what his value is, and how much he would resign for.

 

[OkimLom]

The Mitts debate in here is nuts.

There is no reason they can‘t sign him for 7x7+mil (Similar to Tage/Cozens). Assuming that’s what they want to do.

The cap is not an issue. NHL teams don’t worry about their cap 2-3 years down the line when signing their top guys. Hell they usually don’t care how signing them impacts them the next season. They just get their guy signed and figure it out after (trade, LTIR, etc). Whether you agree with that or not, it‘s how the league operates. It’s also why we have Cup champs with payrolls 10-20mil above the upper limit.

I think the only thing that would be holding Buffalo up from giving Casey that sort of deal, is their own internal budget/cap, and possibly how they as an organization feel about him.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

It figured that Mitts and Greenway are the ones other teams want. The only guys who’ve been able to maintain possession and win puck battles along the boards the past few years. Greenway being one of the only net front guys, if not the only one.

I’d rather trade Tage or Cozens at this point, though they’d be more of an offseason trade.

I think the only thing that would be holding Buffalo up from giving Casey that sort of deal, is their own internal budget/cap, and possibly how they as an organization feel about him.

Yeah Im not sure Adams likes Mitts as much as a lot of us do.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yeah Im not sure Adams likes Mitts as much as a lot of us do.

I wonder if it is not liking Mitts, or the timing of his deal expiring with all the other core guys that have already been locked up. Along with guys like Quinn & JJP hitting RFA after the 24-25 season.