Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

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Completely fair points. I don't think Hanifin will re-sign in Calgary, and I honestly think he could maybe re-sign in Buffalo. I don't see many other Eastern Conference teams with the cap space and an enticing opportunity, although I agree Boston is probably more t buffalo d

Except Buffalo does not have the cap space you think they have

in 24/25 Dahlin, Power start high contracts

cap space $25M with
2024 RFAs in Mittlestad, Jokiharju, Krebs, UPL--about $14M to resign them
after signing RFAs they will be 10/6/2 roster with about $10M in space. say 4 roster spots filled for about $1M per with low contracts giving them room for a one year larger contract

2025 RFA Levi, Peterka, Quinn, Ryan Johnson UFA Greenway-if you give the ELCs enders a 2 yr low bridge and resign greenway--$10M
10/6/2 roster the players above resigned are on current roster so the space remaining will be just about the amount the cap increases to fill out the roster. so very little cap space.


2026 Tuch, Clifton is a UFA, Benson is an RFA, others are RFA. Clifton space goes to resign tuch. space is cap increase.


2027 Skinner is a UFA, young prospects Kulich, Ostlund, Savoie end their ELCs if year 1 isnt burned. Skinner cap space would go to new contract on them and the 2025 bridges ending. here you would have $9M+ cap increase in space

Im not saying no trades will happen. As it stands now they need some cheaper players coming back to create cap space...not go after along term $&Mm contract unless a deal is made making it to be closer to cap neutral.

Jokiharju could be traded as could a decision one of Mittlestadt/Cozens gets traded

in 2025 or 2026 they could make moves on their younger forwards with ELCs ending traded for prospects/picks ELC.



And then the next year when Peterka, Quinn are up, Greenway is off the books, leaving you guys with around 7 mil for those three (assuming the cap won't rise, which it likely will). Definitely a bit tight, but imo that's a necessary consequence of building a playoff-calibre D. And that's what you have your ELC guys like Kulich Ostlund and Rosen for. However I see that Hanifin might be too expensive, I just don'tknow what cheaper alternatives are available that would take your D to the next level. Maybe Tanev or Brodie as a cheaper stop-gap? Idk if that's enough

They dont need a top RD. Dahlin can do 1RD. They could acquire an ELC player near ending with one year left on a cap strapped team with depth at RD and then sign him to something low 3 year bridge taking him to 2027 or 2028/ this could also be a UFA contract ending in 2028 or 2029 who is making say $3.5M-$4M.
 
Ya fair, I actually love Tuch and thought he was destined for a top-6 role since his early days in Vegas. I just meant move him around to balance size on every line.

And agreed about Buffalo not being an attractive destination. That’s exactly why I think any potential top-4 D upgrade would likely have to come through trade. And that that’s a much harder piece to find compared to bottom-6 guys. Honestly it seems like the forward group is pretty filled out already with plenty of good prospects in the pipeline. So unless you plan to keep cap open to overpay for bottom-6 upgrades, I think it makes more sense to pay up to get that legit #2/3 D to help Power develop and stabilize the top-4 and spend late picks on cheap 4th line additions as needed. You can always send a late pick for a good 4th liner, but those legit D are rarely available through trade.

they dont have to do UFA shopping. they could trade some of their F prospects for a prospect/ELC RD.

Assuming no trades you assume Dahlin*, Ry Johnson*, Samuelsson, and Power are here long term. * players can play on right side.

23/24 Jokiharju, Clifton, EJ
24/25 Jokiharju( RFA year), Clifton, low contract vet
25/26 Jokiharju(UFA yr), Clifton, low contract vet
26/27 2024 1st round pick, recent drafted RD
27/28 2024 1st round pick, recent drafted RD , 2024 or 2025 top 50 pick,

they could trade Jokiharju for a little older RD who fits mid pair and under contract thru 2027 whose cap hit is under $4.5M

in summer 2025 they could move young forwards for similar young Dman like say Peterka who would be due next contract. RD who wouldnt be a UFA years till 2028 or after who is cost controlled at around $4M
 
they dont have to do UFA shopping. they could trade some of their F prospects for a prospect/ELC RD.

Assuming no trades you assume Dahlin*, Ry Johnson*, Samuelsson, and Power are here long term. * players can play on right side.

23/24 Jokiharju, Clifton, EJ
24/25 Jokiharju( RFA year), Clifton, low contract vet
25/26 Jokiharju(UFA yr), Clifton, low contract vet
26/27 2024 1st round pick, recent drafted RD
27/28 2024 1st round pick, recent drafted RD , 2024 or 2025 top 50 pick,


they could trade Jokiharju for a little older RD who fits mid pair and under contract thru 2027 whose cap hit is under $4.5M

in summer 2025 they could move young forwards for similar young Dman like say Peterka who would be due next contract. RD who wouldnt be a UFA years till 2028 or after who is cost controlled at around $4M
I’m sorry but that’s objectively horrible RD depth. No contending team has that. If your GM doesn’t get creative with the cap he’s just setting the team up for failure.

Imo you pay up now to shore up the D and deal whoever you have to to make it work down the road. If you need to move Jokijarhu/Clifton and even one of cozens or Mittlestat for depth, cap space, and other assets you do that next summer or the following summer when you have Kulich/Ostlund ready to step in and Benson steps into the top-6.

Worst case scenario is do nothing because you’re scared of the cap. It would be different if you had immovable contracts like Montreal or Calgary, because in that case you won’t be able to deal from a position of strength when cap becomes an issue. But you guys have movable assets. So imo you need to take the risks and do what Tampa and Colorado did—stack up as much as possible and then move the expandable pieces when the cap crunch hits. And with the cap expected to rise beyond this year, you probably have more space than you anticipate.

Just my two cents as a neutral fan who cheers for Buffaloa bud wants you guys to take that next step into playoff team and eventually contender
 
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The forward group really is loaded with good players on this team and the forward depth on the farm is amazing..... Problem is that it is very homogenized with small, soft, skilled players.

Having Tuch, Thompson and Cozens be the muscle and do the on-ice policing is a problem. Great group of talent, but terribly unbalanced if you want to compete in the NHL.

I totally agree, that good bottom six players should be easy to procure, but the reality seems to be that many teams have trouble acquiring quality bottom six guys without absolutely paying ridiculous prices to acquire or huge overpays -supply and demand I suppose.

With the Sabres D being super young but consisting of Dahlin, Power, Samuelson, Jokiharju and R. Johnson, the chances of them coming up with two quality pairings that can find chemistry to fill their top 4 is much more likely than Buffalo icing a strong bottom six anytime soon from within, so while I agree that a D upgrade would be beneficial, I feel it is far from the biggest organizational hole. And then there are the cap constraints - I am just not sure you can be competitive with a D core making 35+ Million
Fair points, I will defer to your judgment as someone more familiar with the team. Honestly it’s just surprising to me that finding quality bottom-6 guys is more of an issue than top of the roster guys because Calgary has the exact opposite problem. Like can Adams really not find guys like AJ Greer or Garnett Hathaway or Dube or Jake Evans who would shore up that bottom-6 and address the size issue? Those guys should be available for late picks at most
 
Fair points, I will defer to your judgment as someone more familiar with the team. Honestly it’s just surprising to me that finding quality bottom-6 guys is more of an issue than top of the roster guys because Calgary has the exact opposite problem. Like can Adams really not find guys like AJ Greer or Garnett Hathaway or Dube or Jake Evans who would shore up that bottom-6 and address the size issue? Those guys should be available for late picks at most

In their time as a bottom dweller, Buffalo has been able to find external bottom 6ers almost never. In the last 8 years, they have certainly jettisoned a bunch of them - Marcus Foligno, Evan Rodrigues, William Carrier, Justin Danforth (former minor league farm hand) are part of the few they've managed to develop to some degree but never really replaced. It's not an area of strength, nor has identification and acquisition of identity players. They are always chasing and instead ice waiver bait lines for slush minutes that do nothing except take up space.

Those guys should be available, but outside of finding Greenway last season, they do not scout for, draft for, develop for or show any ability to trade for them. It's maddening.
 
I’m sorry but that’s objectively horrible RD depth. No contending team has that. If your GM doesn’t get creative with the cap he’s just setting the team up for failure.

Imo you pay up now to shore up the D and deal whoever you have to to make it work down the road. If you need to move Jokijarhu/Clifton and even one of cozens or Mittlestat for depth, cap space, and other assets you do that next summer or the following summer when you have Kulich/Ostlund ready to step in and Benson steps into the top-6.

Worst case scenario is do nothing because you’re scared of the cap. It would be different if you had immovable contracts like Montreal or Calgary, because in that case you won’t be able to deal from a position of strength when cap becomes an issue. But you guys have movable assets. So imo you need to take the risks and do what Tampa and Colorado did—stack up as much as possible and then move the expandable pieces when the cap crunch hits. And with the cap expected to rise beyond this year, you probably have more space than you anticipate.

Just my two cents as a neutral fan who cheers for Buffaloa bud wants you guys to take that next step into playoff team and eventually contender
Dealing right now some GMs are asking outrageous prices thingking he will give away stuff for bottom level players.

my philosophy is different in this top 6/bottom 6. I’m fine going with just one checking line and 3 offensive lines.

we just saw LA move a few RD this off-season. They are out there. As I saw I’m not talking of dealing for recent top 10 picks. As teams draft in a position over a few years they could have 5 deep in RD with not much separation and get one of them.
I thin forecast cap are higher than what i will be due to cable revenue lost.
 
In their time as a bottom dweller, Buffalo has been able to find external bottom 6ers almost never. In the last 8 years, they have certainly jettisoned a bunch of them - Marcus Foligno, Evan Rodrigues, William Carrier, Justin Danforth (former minor league farm hand) are part of the few they've managed to develop to some degree but never really replaced. It's not an area of strength, nor has identification and acquisition of identity players. They are always chasing and instead ice waiver bait lines for slush minutes that do nothing except take up space.

Those guys should be available, but outside of finding Greenway last season, they do not scout for, draft for, develop for or show any ability to trade for them. It's maddening.
Adams seems to have a vision for his team looking like a good regular season team at its best, when everything hits correctly. But I question how long his teams would last in the playoffs when everything shrinks and the refs let a lot more go that slows the game down. Nothing about the team indicates they could handle the game when it condenses and requires it to be funneled to the slot and they would need to fight for every square inch of ice.
 
Adams seems to have a vision for his team looking like a good regular season team at its best, when everything hits correctly. But I question how long his teams would last in the playoffs when everything shrinks and the refs let a lot more go that slows the game down. Nothing about the team indicates they could handle the game when it condenses and requires it to be funneled to the slot and they would need to fight for every square inch of ice.

I would say the vision for the team doesn't perform well in regular season games that require a measure of grinding, of being workmanlike above all else, of paying a physical price and exacting a physical price on the opposition, let alone the sort of melee that ensues in the playoffs.
 
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In their time as a bottom dweller, Buffalo has been able to find external bottom 6ers almost never. In the last 8 years, they have certainly jettisoned a bunch of them - Marcus Foligno, Evan Rodrigues, William Carrier, Justin Danforth (former minor league farm hand) are part of the few they've managed to develop to some degree but never really replaced. It's not an area of strength, nor has identification and acquisition of identity players. They are always chasing and instead ice waiver bait lines for slush minutes that do nothing except take up space.

Those guys should be available, but outside of finding Greenway last season, they do not scout for, draft for, develop for or show any ability to trade for them. It's maddening.
God I don’t blame you. That’s brutal. Weird cause you guys have a solid analytics team and should be able to identify those low-cost acquisitions
 
God I don’t blame you. That’s brutal. Weird cause you guys have a solid analytics team and should be able to identify those low-cost acquisitions

The analytics team sure. We've recently discovered that the pro scouting department head has a staff of three -- and he can name them as "me, myself, and I". He is the only one dedicated to it.

It's weird that contact-driven forwards are just not something they draft or develop or try to acquire. It's not like they are going to have a Hathaway or Coleman or Goodrow emerge from their farm, they have almost no one there who has shown they play that game. And watching guys like Carrier and Foligno go off and be exactly the type of player they could use for a real third line for years and years is just an extra little bit of bitter to the pill of how poorly they play.
 
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Fair points, I will defer to your judgment as someone more familiar with the team. Honestly it’s just surprising to me that finding quality bottom-6 guys is more of an issue than top of the roster guys because Calgary has the exact opposite problem. Like can Adams really not find guys like AJ Greer or Garnett Hathaway or Dube or Jake Evans who would shore up that bottom-6 and address the size issue? Those guys should be available for late picks at most

I am sure they could go get a couple of Hathaway's now for late picks, but would a 32 year old Hathaway be better than Okposo on the PK? Would a team be a better team having him in their bottom 6 at 2.4M?

I know Calgary feels the pain too, as they went out and spent big on Coleman, which is actually working out well at the moment, but good bottom 6 penalty killers are not cheap to acquire. Chain mentioned Coleman and Goodrow, and those guys were 1st RD pick trade bait.

When you are drafting with lottery picks in the first round, you can't be trading them on bottom six players with just a year or two on their deals. Unfortuantely, 2nd round picks just aren't enough to win the bidding for the quality guys with term unless they come with hefty cap hits. Picking up expiring contracts at the deadline is only worth it if you can re-sign them, which Buffalo has never been able to do, so I understand the hesitancy there, because to get them to re-sign, Buffalo has to grossly overpay - so there is a propensity to save the picks and just go overspend in free agency (but they still lose the bidding wars for the difference makers).

Like @Chainshot said, this team does not scout or develop size or jam. They don't even draft it usually, which is frustrating. When there are 10 sub 6' wingers with promise in the system and the team has two extra 2nd round picks and they go out and draft two more sub 6' wingers, one can only shake their head.
 
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I am sure they could go get a couple of Hathaway's now for late picks, but would a 32 year old Hathaway be better than Okposo on the PK? Would a team be a better team having him in their bottom 6 at 2.4M?

I know Calgary feels the pain too, as they went out and spent big on Coleman, which is actually working out well at the moment, but good bottom 6 penalty killers are not cheap to acquire. Chain mentioned Coleman and Goodrow, and those guys were 1st RD pick trade bait.

When you are drafting with lottery picks in the first round, you can't be trading them on bottom six players with just a year or two on their deals. Unfortuantely, 2nd round picks just aren't enough to win the bidding for the quality guys with term unless they come with hefty cap hits. Picking up expiring contracts at the deadline is only worth it if you can re-sign them, which Buffalo has never been able to do, so I understand the hesitancy there, because to get them to re-sign, Buffalo has to grossly overpay - so there is a propensity to save the picks and just go overspend in free agency (but they still lose the bidding wars for the difference makers).

Like @Chainshot said, this team does not scout or develop size or jam. They don't even draft it usually, which is frustrating. When there are 10 sub 6' wingers with promise in the system and the team has two extra 2nd round picks and they go out and draft two more sub 6' wingers, one can only shake their head.
I hear what you’re saying, but honestly, is Greenway-Girgensons-Okposo really that bad? To me that’s a pretty solid 4th line. And the top-9 is filled out too. Replace Olofsson with Kulich next year and I like the forward lines.

I swear looking at your roster on paper the biggest hole is #3D. Maybe the coaching/ system is a bigger issue, but adding a puck moving d would do wonders at both ends of the ice imo. If Poser could find his groove and the second pair becomes a strength it will have a big impact. Then, once you address that and have playoff caliber d you can start upgrading the bottom-6. And I don’t think you need the Coleman’s that cost a 1st. I think a Jake Evans from MTL for example would be a fantastic fit. Maybe Parker Kelly from Ottawa.

Then, if you’re still not having success, you consider flipping one of the higher-paid forwards and a blue-chip prospect or two for an upgrade.
 
I hear what you’re saying, but honestly, is Greenway-Girgensons-Okposo really that bad? To me that’s a pretty solid 4th line. And the top-9 is filled out too. Replace Olofsson with Kulich next year and I like the forward lines.

I swear looking at your roster on paper the biggest hole is #3D. Maybe the coaching/ system is a bigger issue, but adding a puck moving d would do wonders at both ends of the ice imo. If Poser could find his groove and the second pair becomes a strength it will have a big impact. Then, once you address that and have playoff caliber d you can start upgrading the bottom-6. And I don’t think you need the Coleman’s that cost a 1st. I think a Jake Evans from MTL for example would be a fantastic fit. Maybe Parker Kelly from Ottawa.

Then, if you’re still not having success, you consider flipping one of the higher-paid forwards and a blue-chip prospect or two for an upgrade.
Greenway has been excellent, but he has mostly been playing with Benson and Mittelstadt, and that line has been solid (I believe he was skating with Okposo tonight as Mitts moved up with Skinner out) and the line was much less effective

Girgensons has been dinged up and missed some time. He is tough and takes a beating, but he is too nice. He doesn't put any fear into anyone if they decide to take liberties with the young players. Okposo is the same, but physically he has lost several steps now.

Opposing teams are throwing third and fourth lines out against Cozens Quinn and Peterka and just hitting them at every point on the ice. If the refs ever called the obstruction and interference, the Sabres would be on the PP the entire gane, but they always swallow their whistles and you can't win games when you players are being out muscles and knocked to the ice 4-5 times a shift.

Skinner and Krebs are smaller players, but they mix it up a bit and agitate, but skinner wants nothing to do with the real rough stuff. Benson is an undersized teenager, and Mitts is getting tougher as he ages, but he is still pretty soft. Thompson and Tuch will stand up for their teammates - Tuch hits a lot, Thompson is not all that physical. Neither are intimidating. On D, Power and Johnson are soft as butter. Jokiharhu was also up until this season, and he is pushing back finally, but still not a tough player.

They are very talented, but they honestly may be the softest roster I can remember in all my years of watching this league. (lots of years).

This team just has zero snarl. They have no true energy line to throw out there when the ice is tilted. They have no response when opposing teams start gooning it up and taking liberties.

They really have a top 9 and a bottom 3 (and the bottom 3 could use a lot of upgrading).
 
It is funny to me that Ottawa did everything that some on here said to do. C on defence, Tarenseko, Claude and Fosberg and they are behind the dabres

Red wings “killed it” and they are 5 points above Sabres.
 
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It is funny to me that Ottawa did everything that some on here said to do. C on defence, Tarenseko, Claude and Fosberg and they are behind the dabres

Red wings “killed it” and they are 5 points above Sabres.
And the Sabres did nothing, expecting to improve internally on increased experience alone, and they are worse than last year’s team and behind more teams. What‘s your point?
 
I am sure they could go get a couple of Hathaway's now for late picks, but would a 32 year old Hathaway be better than Okposo on the PK? Would a team be a better team having him in their bottom 6 at 2.4M?

I know Calgary feels the pain too, as they went out and spent big on Coleman, which is actually working out well at the moment, but good bottom 6 penalty killers are not cheap to acquire. Chain mentioned Coleman and Goodrow, and those guys were 1st RD pick trade bait.

When you are drafting with lottery picks in the first round, you can't be trading them on bottom six players with just a year or two on their deals. Unfortuantely, 2nd round picks just aren't enough to win the bidding for the quality guys with term unless they come with hefty cap hits. Picking up expiring contracts at the deadline is only worth it if you can re-sign them, which Buffalo has never been able to do, so I understand the hesitancy there, because to get them to re-sign, Buffalo has to grossly overpay - so there is a propensity to save the picks and just go overspend in free agency (but they still lose the bidding wars for the difference makers).

Like @Chainshot said, this team does not scout or develop size or jam. They don't even draft it usually, which is frustrating. When there are 10 sub 6' wingers with promise in the system and the team has two extra 2nd round picks and they go out and draft two more sub 6' wingers, one can only shake their head.
Meanwhile we're paying Okposo 2.5m, Girgs 2.5m, Jost 2.0m, Clifton 3.3m and EJ 3.5m. Under those circumstances 2.4m for Hathaway sounds like an improvement.

Hathway brings about as much offense as Girgs, and he's about the same at 5v5 defense, and better on the PK. (yes he'd be better on the pk than 35 year old Okposo)

But more importantly he's the kind of player who extracts a physical price from the opposition. Which this team entirely lacks.
 
Meanwhile we're paying Okposo 2.5m, Girgs 2.5m, Jost 2.0m, Clifton 3.3m and EJ 3.5m. Under those circumstances 2.4m for Hathaway sounds like an improvement.

Hathway brings about as much offense as Girgs, and he's about the same at 5v5 defense, and better on the PK. (yes he'd be better on the pk than 35 year old Okposo)

But more importantly he's the kind of player who extracts a physical price from the opposition. Which this team entirely lacks.
Hathaway may not have felt he was as good a fit for Buffalo as he was in Philly.
 
It is funny to me that Ottawa did everything that some on here said to do. C on defence, Tarenseko, Claude and Fosberg and they are behind the dabres

Red wings “killed it” and they are 5 points above Sabres.
I've said this before, but I think Detroit and Ottawa pulled out of their tanks too early. Reminiscent of the Bylsma/Murray era Sabres. They only got 1 or 2 high end pieces from the draft, and then they "accelerated the rebuild" with UFAs and trades.

Meanwhile, the Sabres are the opposite extreme, refusing to fill in holes with UFAs and trades.

Neither extreme has led any of these teams to success, as they are likely to all finish outside of the playoffs and all bunched up in the standings again.

I think a balanced approach is what is needed. Step 1 is you need to be bad for long enough to pick up 3-4 corner stone pieces from the draft and have a good stable of cheap elc talent coming up for years and years as depth and trade fodder. Step 2 is then fill in any major holes via trade/ufa

The Sabres completed step 1 almost 2 years ago and have refused to take step 2. Ottawa and Detroit only got halfway through step 1 and have gone full hog on step 2.
 
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Hathaway may not have felt he was as good a fit for Buffalo as he was in Philly.
Or Adams re-signed Okposo/Girgs/Jost on or before day 1 of UFA and decided he was done with forwards for the offseason and never even talked to a guy like Hathaway.

If Adams had any intention of improving the make up of the bottom 6 over the offseason he wouldn't have re-signed those 3, let alone re-sign 2 of them before UFA even opened.
 
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Or Adams re-signed Okposo/Girgs/Jost on or before day 1 of UFA and decided he was done with forwards for the offseason and never even talked to a guy like Hathaway.

If Adams had any intention of improving the make up of the bottom 6 over the offseason he wouldn't have re-signed those 3, let alone re-sign 2 of them before UFA even opened.
Both could be true.

Adams had no interest in Hathaway and Hathaway wouldn't have wanted to come to Buffalo unless Buffalo came over the top of Philly's offer to the extent that it was an offer that was too good to turn down.
 
It's always seemed like the lack of UFA interest for the Sabres has been a hush-hush issue over the years regardless of ownership or management. Instead, I would rather the organization be out in the open about it, say how many times they've tried to lure UFAs and failed. They would send a message admitting how poorly other players view them, take a hit to their pride, but also advertise how much they actually want to get better players and a better roster. It would at least be a good message to the fan base, if not maybe a message to the rest of the league and players that they aren't just a 2nd rate hockey town that chooses/accepts a lesser status of scraping by with whoever "wants" to be there.
 
Both could be true.

Adams had no interest in Hathaway and Hathaway wouldn't have wanted to come to Buffalo unless Buffalo came over the top of Philly's offer to the extent that it was an offer that was too good to turn down.
He overpaid Okposo/Girgs/Jost by about $4mil combined. I think we could have more than afforded to upgrade the bottom 6 if it was something that Adams was even remotely interested in doing, rather than running it back.

If Adams had re-sgined Okposo/Girgs/Jost on like July 8th, after the UFA dust had settled, I'd believe that he had tried to make upgrades and had been turned down by everyone he went after and then had to settle on bringing back those 3. But Okposo and Girgs were already signed in May/June and then Jost was day 1 of UFA. And he signed no other UFA forwards this offseason.

All signs point towards he wanted to run it back while making 0 outside additions to the forwards. And that's exactly what he did.
 
He overpaid Okposo/Girgs/Jost by about $4mil combined. I think we could have more than afforded to upgrade the bottom 6 if it was something that Adams was even remotely interested in doing, rather than running it back.

If Adams had re-sgined Okposo/Girgs/Jost on like July 8th, after the UFA dust had settled, I'd believe that he had tried to make upgrades and had been turned down by everyone he went after and then had to settle on bringing back those 3. But Okposo and Girgs were already signed in May/June and then Jost was day 1 of UFA. And he signed no other UFA forwards this offseason.

All signs point towards he wanted to run it back while making 0 outside additions to the forwards. And that's exactly what he did.
Okposo and Girgensons were brought back mainly for their leadership.

They felt the rest of the roster was not ready yet to lead the team. And how things have gone this season, that seemed to be a correct call...
 
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