Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Chainshot]

Flames fan here coming in peace. Over the past few weeks I kept wondering why the Sabres aren’t building on last year’s momentum and taking that next step, but after watching the past few games I really think a lot of it is a lack of quality defensemen.

Reading this thread I’m seeing a lot of criticism about Dahlin and Power, but I think these guys are just in over their heads without any quality support. Samuelsson is fine, but playing Power with a revolving door of bottom-pairing dmen is just setting him up for failure. Guys like Clifton and EJ won’t help him develop and make your second pair a massive weakness. Obviously goaltending is an issue too, but there are really not many (if any) good goalie options at all on the market. So you NEED to address the D in my opinion.

And I don’t mean add a #4 dman, I mean add a legit #2/3D to anchor that second pair and turn that pairing into a strength. Otherwise the lack of good goaltending and lack of great dmen beyond Dahlin just leads to defensive breakdown after breakdown and loss after loss.

I don’t mean for this to come off as a sales pitch, but imo you guys are so desperate for a quality #2/3 d like Noah Hanifin. Someone who can eat 20+ 5v5 minutes, can help take tough assignments from Power and Dahlin, and can provide tons of stability to that top-4. Someone who can skate and defend well but also move the puck and contribute in transition.

I get ideally you want an RD to play with Power or Dahlin, but realistically those #2/3 RD don’t come available. Unless you guys are satisfied with a guy like DeMelo, but i don’t think he moves the needle.

You have the cap space, you have the assets, and you have a glaring need. I think Adams NEEDS to pay up for that quality #2 dman. If it’s not Hanifin, it’s gotta be someone like him that can really take the pressure off Power and Dahlin, not some stop-gap solution that will make a marginal difference.

What are your thoughts?

It seems like the fluidity of Dahlin and Samuelsson as a tandem, each left shots covering for one another on either side as a pair, has taken a serious hit this season. Dahlin was at his best playing his offhand side last year but this season's play has not been adequate for him nor for Power. Either could use some sort of defensive safety valve - think of Lindgren for the Rangers when he plays with Fox - and I don't know if that's someone like Hanifin at this point. Hanifin seems better suited to a left side deployment and not necessarily as a shutdown guy.

If Weegar didn't have that weighty contract, he seems like the ideal guy, right shot who always seems capable of killing plays. But that deal...

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Lots to unpack here, but I'm going to try:

1.) Do we NEED a long-term top 4 RHD? It'd be nice.....but I don't think it's strictly necessary. We do have Strbak in the pipeline, but he's likely 2 years away at minimum. We brought Clifton and EJ in to help calm Power down. And you can see the influence sometimes. Power doesn't panic as much when pressured this year, but he's still prone to positional lapses. But in an ideal world in the future, Dahlin and Power will play ~24 min each with Samuelsson right behind.

2.) Our biggest goals-against issue right now isn't goaltending and it isn't talent on defense. It's a lack of:
a.) Any real sort of structure. Granato says/said he intended to teach one this past offseason and into this season, but f*** if we know what that system actually is. But that goes into the bigger problem:
b.) A complete and utter lack of defensive buy in defensively from anyone not named Greenway, Benson, Mittlestadt, Krebs, Okposo and Girgensons. MAYBE you can include Quinn in there. But 5 of your top forwards in 5v5 ice time aren't committed defensively, that's a HUGE problem. Yes, we know Skinner doesn't play defense well.......but having ONE guy in your top 6 being defensively inept can be overcome. Not FIVE. And the thing is: Tage/Tuch/Cozens are are solid PKers.......but they get very, very, very lost when defending 5v5. And to most here, that's an issue with coaching.

3.) Our goaltending has largely been fine this year. Yeah, each goalie has had a crap night here and there.....but by and large, it hasn't been an issue other than the whole "Developing Levi in the NHL and not the AHL thing"......but that's not the point of this post/response.

4.) Another HUGE issue is that Dahlin and Samuelsson in particular have not played nearly as well this year as they did last year. Dahlin isn't skating nearly as well, which leads to the thought that maybe he's hurt. Samuelsson is just flat-out making 2-3 brain dead decisions every game....and many of them are ending up in the back of the net. But again, that could be overcome if our top forwards would play anything resembling defense.


Bottom line: Do we NEED another top-4 RHD? It couldn't hurt.....but that guy needs to be defensively responsible before anything else. Looking at Calgary, the main guy that looks like he'd fill our need would be Weegar. But....NMC and I doubt you guys actually move him unless he asks out.

Appreciate the feedback. So you think it mostly boils down to a coaching issue and defensive buy-in from offensive guys?

I can definitely see that. What do you propose as a solution though? Obviously a new coach/coaching staff, but I honestly don’t think that would be enough to prevent the frequent defensive lapses.

I definitely agree Samuelsson and Dahlin seem to have regressed a bit from last year, but I feel like it’s because they play ALL the hard minutes. Ideally yes Power and Dahlin play 24 minutes, but I think they’ve both proven they just can’t do that yet. In two years hopefully, and Dahlin probably could get away with it now, but not if he has to do all the heavy lifting.

If not Hanifin, who else would you target? Assuming Weegar isn’t available (because I highly doubt he’s getting moved, especially to a non-contender). Or would you look for a defensively responsible top-6 forward first? Or are you content waiting it out? To me, waiting any longer when you have the assets and cap space would just hurt the development of Power and your young goalies.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

It seems like the fluidity of Dahlin and Samuelsson as a tandem, each left shots covering for one another on either side as a pair, has taken a serious hit this season. Dahlin was at his best playing his offhand side last year but this season's play has not been adequate for him nor for Power. Either could use some sort of defensive safety valve - think of Lindgren for the Rangers when he plays with Fox - and I don't know if that's someone like Hanifin at this point. Hanifin seems better suited to a left side deployment and not necessarily as a shutdown guy.

If Weegar didn't have that weighty contract, he seems like the ideal guy, right shot who always seems capable of killing plays. But that deal...

Fair, I just don’t see many RHD options like Lindgren available. Weegar probably isn’t, and other than him there’s like a handful of available RD that could fill the role. DeMelo? Maybe aging Tanev? I just don’t see many good RHD solutions. And for what it’s worth, Hanifin is a great shutdown guy. Arguably steadier than Weegar. Plus his age would fit nicely with your core and you wouldn’t regret a longer-term deal with him cause he’s just 26.

 

[Chainshot]

Fair, I just don’t see many RHD options like Lindgren available. Weegar probably isn’t, and other than him there’s like a handful of available RD that could fill the role. DeMelo? Maybe aging Tanev? I just don’t see many good RHD solutions. And for what it’s worth, Hanifin is a great shutdown guy. Arguably steadier than Weegar. Plus his age would fit nicely with your core and you wouldn’t regret a longer-term deal with him cause he’s just 26.

One definite advantage for Hanifin is his ability to transition the puck which is something Power is also good at. And that Hanifin is a more engaged player in his own zone, better positioned as one could expect out of a capable young veteran of his stature. It's can Hanifin do that on RD (or can he do that on LD while one of the other LD shifts to the right and actually succeeds)? My doubts are about that.

Trying to fix the mix in Buffalo, DeMelo was very high on my list for a couple of years but now that the Jets seem to have gotten some of their guys *cough*Scheifele*cough* to play on both sides of the ice and they have the goaltending performing at a high level, they're no longer a team that looks like they're on the verge of a rebuild.

With Calgary only 2 points off the wildcard spot, are they willing to go for a futures-based deal if they aren't able to extend Hanifin?

 

[RasmusAndersson]

One definite advantage for Hanifin is his ability to transition the puck which is something Power is also good at. And that Hanifin is a more engaged player in his own zone, better positioned as one could expect out of a capable young veteran of his stature. It's can Hanifin do that on RD (or can he do that on LD while one of the other LD shifts to the right and actually succeeds)? My doubts are about that.

Trying to fix the mix in Buffalo, DeMelo was very high on my list for a couple of years but now that the Jets seem to have gotten some of their guys *cough*Scheifele*cough* to play on both sides of the ice and they have the goaltending performing at a high level, they're no longer a team that looks like they're on the verge of a rebuild.

With Calgary only 2 points off the wildcard spot, are they willing to go for a futures-based deal if they aren't able to extend Hanifin?

Totally fair concern, Hanifin has never really been asked to play the right side in Calgary. I just think at a certain point it’s worth the risk because there’s just so few RHD on or close to his level. Maybe Brodie in the off-season? Pesce? I just think those guys will have offers from contenders so it’ll be hard to rely on UFA.

If I were Calgary’s GM I would absolutely accept a futures-based deal for Hanifin. I can’t speak for our often idiotic management, but I’m praying that we send him with an extension to maximize value, and then target either a first or A level prospect. He wouldn’t be that cheap though, but you guys definitely have the talent. Something like your first (top-5 protected) or Savoie/Ostlund + Clifton to balance the cap over the next few years? Assuming Kulich is untouchable.

 

[Chainshot]

Totally fair concern, Hanifin has never really been asked to play the right side in Calgary. I just think at a certain point it’s worth the risk because there’s just so few RHD on or close to his level. Maybe Brodie in the off-season? Pesce? I just think those guys will have offers from contenders so it’ll be hard to rely on UFA.

If I were Calgary’s GM I would absolutely accept a futures-based deal for Hanifin. I can’t speak for our often idiotic management, but I’m praying that we send him with an extension to maximize value, and then target either a first or A level prospect. He wouldn’t be that cheap though, but you guys definitely have the talent. Something like your first (top-5 protected) or Savoie/Ostlund + Clifton to balance the cap over the next few years? Assuming Kulich is untouchable.

Buffalo pressed for Pesce this summer from some observers comments but that Pesce was unwilling to make the move.

I think a Savoie centered deal would be something to work around. I love the kid but they just have too much of the same sort of smaller, offensively minded guys and so he seems like the candidate to be dealt. Kulich is probably not to be had at least until they figure out a way to f*** him up at the NHL level. Ostlund is their only mid-line level true center prospect at this point with Savoie playing wing in Wenatchee (waiting to see how and where he fits in Moose Jaw).

I would be interested in moving Jokiharju in the deal instead of Clifton. Again, it's weird - he's one of their few RD and has had a better year this season after last year's concussion and injury-fest - but I don't feel he is actually a top-4 defender. That would probably lead to a need to negotiate some sort of balance for it - a recent top-10 and a reasonably signed RD for a pending UFA LD seems as though it would require Hanifin to be signed to an extension and then figure out the bits and bobs needed to fully flatten the deal to even.

 

[thewookie1]

Totally fair concern, Hanifin has never really been asked to play the right side in Calgary. I just think at a certain point it’s worth the risk because there’s just so few RHD on or close to his level. Maybe Brodie in the off-season? Pesce? I just think those guys will have offers from contenders so it’ll be hard to rely on UFA.

If I were Calgary’s GM I would absolutely accept a futures-based deal for Hanifin. I can’t speak for our often idiotic management, but I’m praying that we send him with an extension to maximize value, and then target either a first or A level prospect. He wouldn’t be that cheap though, but you guys definitely have the talent. Something like your first (top-5 protected) or Savoie/Ostlund + Clifton to balance the cap over the next few years? Assuming Kulich is untouchable.

Frankly if Hanifin resigns with CGY as per the rumor, I'd target your name sake or Weegar even with his somewhat painful contract.

 

[StrompTroller]

Or Dalton Smith.

hey! those 20 seconds he played versus...Tampa?? Were meaningful!

 

[MeenOlViks]

Frankly if Hanifin resigns with CGY as per the rumor, I'd target your name sake or Weegar even with his somewhat painful contract.

Who else is realistically out there at this point? Not much comes to mind unfortunately

 

[thewookie1]

Who else is realistically out there at this point? Not much comes to mind unfortunately

Maybe Minnesota with Brodin if they plan to refit

 

[MeenOlViks]

Maybe Minnesota with Brodin if they plan to refit

I wonder if he'd waive to come here?

 

[Djp]

Totally fair concern, Hanifin has never really been asked to play the right side in Calgary. I just think at a certain point it’s worth the risk because there’s just so few RHD on or close to his level. Maybe Brodie in the off-season? Pesce? I just think those guys will have offers from contenders so it’ll be hard to rely on UFA.

If I were Calgary’s GM I would absolutely accept a futures-based deal for Hanifin. I can’t speak for our often idiotic management, but I’m praying that we send him with an extension to maximize value, and then target either a first or A level prospect. He wouldn’t be that cheap though, but you guys definitely have the talent. Something like your first (top-5 protected) or Savoie/Ostlund + Clifton to balance the cap over the next few years? Assuming Kulich is untouchable.

I have no interest in Hanifin. he is a LD and has not played on right side.

Buffalo has 3 LD with Samuelson, Power, and ryan Johnson and Dahlin can play on RD and did this pre draft and has done in the NHL

buffalo has jokiharju in RD. hes an RFA at the end of this season.
they signed Johnson and Clifton.
they have some prospect RD in the system.

I would trade one of the young forward prospects for a similar age RD prospect at the same level of potential. Im not trading them for rentals or near 30+ players on the downside of their careers.

Buffalo has cap issues coming up in 2025 and 2026. cap space needs to be watched with upcoming RFAs.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Buffalo pressed for Pesce this summer from some observers comments but that Pesce was unwilling to make the move.

I think a Savoie centered deal would be something to work around. I love the kid but they just have too much of the same sort of smaller, offensively minded guys and so he seems like the candidate to be dealt. Kulich is probably not to be had at least until they figure out a way to f*** him up at the NHL level. Ostlund is their only mid-line level true center prospect at this point with Savoie playing wing in Wenatchee (waiting to see how and where he fits in Moose Jaw).

I would be interested in moving Jokiharju in the deal instead of Clifton. Again, it's weird - he's one of their few RD and has had a better year this season after last year's concussion and injury-fest - but I don't feel he is actually a top-4 defender. That would probably lead to a need to negotiate some sort of balance for it - a recent top-10 and a reasonably signed RD for a pending UFA LD seems as though it would require Hanifin to be signed to an extension and then figure out the bits and bobs needed to fully flatten the deal to even.

That's exactly what I was thinking as well with Savoie. And agreed that Hanifin would need to have already agreed to an extension. And if Jokiharju were added I would be happy to add from our side.

Something like Hanifin (with an extension agreed)+ Dube or Ruzicka for Savoie and Jokiharju? If that doesn't move the needle I'd be willing to throw in Mangiapane with some retention and then maybe a mid-round pick from your side? Mang is very solid defensively and could be a great fit along some of your younger, offensively-focused top-6 guys.

Obviously this is all contingent on if Hanifin would sign an extension there, but I think it would actually be a good opportunity for him to move closer to home in the Eastern conference and alongside some young elite potential dmen.

Frankly if Hanifin resigns with CGY as per the rumor, I'd target your name sake or Weegar even with his somewhat painful contract.

Those guys aren't really available though short of a massive overpayment. Rasmus Andersson especially, he's a borderline #1RD in his prime.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I have no interest in Hanifin. he is a LD and has not played on right side.

Buffalo has 3 LD with Samuelson, Power, and ryan Johnson and Dahlin can play on RD and did this pre draft and has done in the NHL

buffalo has jokiharju in RD. hes an RFA at the end of this season.
they signed Johnson and Clifton.
they have some prospect RD in the system.

I would trade one of the young forward prospects for a similar age RD prospect at the same level of potential. Im not trading them for rentals or near 30+ players on the downside of their careers.

Buffalo has cap issues coming up in 2025 and 2026. cap space needs to be watched with upcoming RFAs.

I agree in theory you should target a young RHD, but there is at most a handful of them actually available. Do you have targets in mind? Drysdale would've been a good one but that ship sailed.

I just think if you keep waiting for the RHD equivalent of Hanifin to become available you could easily be waiting for years. And I'm not even saying this to push Hanifin on you guys, I just think it's stupid to prioritize handedness so much that you get stuck with a below average d core until your young core isn't even young anymore.

 

[Irie]

Flames fan here coming in peace. Over the past few weeks I kept wondering why the Sabres aren’t building on last year’s momentum and taking that next step, but after watching the past few games I really think a lot of it is a lack of quality defensemen.

Reading this thread I’m seeing a lot of criticism about Dahlin and Power, but I think these guys are just in over their heads without any quality support. Samuelsson is fine, but playing Power with a revolving door of bottom-pairing dmen is just setting him up for failure. Guys like Clifton and EJ won’t help him develop and make your second pair a massive weakness. Obviously goaltending is an issue too, but there are really not many (if any) good goalie options at all on the market. So you NEED to address the D in my opinion.

And I don’t mean add a #4 dman, I mean add a legit #2/3D to anchor that second pair and turn that pairing into a strength. Otherwise the lack of good goaltending and lack of great dmen beyond Dahlin just leads to defensive breakdown after breakdown and loss after loss.

I don’t mean for this to come off as a sales pitch, but imo you guys are so desperate for a quality #2/3 d like Noah Hanifin. Someone who can eat 20+ 5v5 minutes, can help take tough assignments from Power and Dahlin, and can provide tons of stability to that top-4. Someone who can skate and defend well but also move the puck and contribute in transition.

I get ideally you want an RD to play with Power or Dahlin, but realistically those #2/3 RD don’t come available. Unless you guys are satisfied with a guy like DeMelo, but i don’t think he moves the needle.

You have the cap space, you have the assets, and you have a glaring need. I think Adams NEEDS to pay up for that quality #2 dman. If it’s not Hanifin, it’s gotta be someone like him that can really take the pressure off Power and Dahlin, not some stop-gap solution that will make a marginal difference.

What are your thoughts?

While I really like your enthusiasm and well thought out reasoning, I see two major issues that you missed.

1. If Hanifin re-signs with Calgary, he won't waive for Buffalo, and likewise, if Calgary trades him before extending him, I can almost guarantee he won't re-sign in Buffalo, so the premise is moot.

2. Assuming Adams somehow convinced Hanifin to sign, Buffalo's top six D would be making 35.5M against the cap(Assuming Jokiharju or Clifton went the other way in the deal to help with the cap). That is not manageable when they also have 5 forwards making over 35 million. It would leave them 17 million for the other 12 players on the roster, with Greenway taking up 3M of that.

UPL will get a nice chunk of change as well, so you end up with something like 11M for 10 players. You really can't compete in this league if your team has 10 guys making a combined 11M. That scenario only gets worse next offseason when Quinn and Peterka are due hefty raises, so I think it is safe to say the cap situation would keep Buffalo out of the Hanifin sweepstakes should Calgary decide to move him.

 

[dortt]

Benson really needs to start producing

He has the heart and determination, but has not been getting the job done as of late.

Time we stop keeping the fan favs and start playing those who produce. If he's hitting the wall and cannot produce any more at this level, send him back (he really belongs in the AHL, the NHL needs to fix that idiotic CHL rule)

 

[RasmusAndersson]

While I really like your enthusiasm and well thought out reasoning, I see two major issues that you missed.

1. If Hanifin re-signs with Calgary, he won't waive for Buffalo, and likewise, if Calgary trades him before extending him, I can almost guarantee he won't re-sign in Buffalo, so the premise is moot.

2. Assuming Adams somehow convinced Hanifin to sign, Buffalo's top six D would be making 35.5M against the cap(Assuming Jokiharju or Clifton went the other way in the deal to help with the cap). That is not manageable when they also have 5 forwards making over 35 million. It would leave them 17 million for the other 12 players on the roster, with Greenway taking up 3M of that.

UPL will get a nice chunk of change as well, so you end up with something like 11M for 10 players. You really can't compete in this league if your team has 10 guys making a combined 11M. That scenario only gets worse next offseason when Quinn and Peterka are due hefty raises, so I think it is safe to say the cap situation would keep Buffalo out of the Hanifin sweepstakes should Calgary decide to move him.

Completely fair points. I don't think Hanifin will re-sign in Calgary, and I honestly think he could maybe re-sign in Buffalo. I don't see many other Eastern Conference teams with the cap space and an enticing opportunity, although I agree Boston is probably more likely.

As for cap space, that's a fair concern too. However, I do think it's doable. Assuming Jokiharju is included in the trade, Mittelstadt gets around 7 mil and UPL gets 2.5, that leaves around 15 mil with 16 guys. If Hanifin gets 7.5 and you call up Kulich and Rosen/anothe ELC prospect, that would leave you with around 5.9 mil with 19 roster spots filled. You'd then a 4C, a 13th F, and a 7th D, and then either a 14th F or 8D. All those guys should make around 1 mil, leaving you guys with about 2 mil.

And then the next year when Peterka, Quinn are up, Greenway is off the books, leaving you guys with around 7 mil for those three (assuming the cap won't rise, which it likely will). Definitely a bit tight, but imo that's a necessary consequence of building a playoff-calibre D. And that's what you have your ELC guys like Kulich Ostlund and Rosen for. However I see that Hanifin might be too expensive, I just don'tknow what cheaper alternatives are available that would take your D to the next level. Maybe Tanev or Brodie as a cheaper stop-gap? Idk if that's enough

 

[Irie]

Completely fair points. I don't think Hanifin will re-sign in Calgary, and I honestly think he could maybe re-sign in Buffalo. I don't see many other Eastern Conference teams with the cap space and an enticing opportunity, although I agree Boston is probably more likely.

As for cap space, that's a fair concern too. However, I do think it's doable. Assuming Jokiharju is included in the trade, Mittelstadt gets around 7 mil and UPL gets 2.5, that leaves around 15 mil with 16 guys. If Hanifin gets 7.5 and you call up Kulich and Rosen/anothe ELC prospect, that would leave you with around 5.9 mil with 19 roster spots filled. You'd then a 4C, a 13th F, and a 7th D, and then either a 14th F or 8D. All those guys should make around 1 mil, leaving you guys with about 2 mil.

And then the next year when Peterka, Quinn are up, Greenway is off the books, leaving you guys with around 7 mil for those three (assuming the cap won't rise, which it likely will). Definitely a bit tight, but imo that's a necessary consequence of building a playoff-calibre D. And that's what you have your ELC guys like Kulich Ostlund and Rosen for. However I see that Hanifin might be too expensive, I just don'tknow what cheaper alternatives are available that would take your D to the next level. Maybe Tanev or Brodie as a cheaper stop-gap? Idk if that's enough

In theory, yes, they could squeeze Hanifin in, but the holes that would create would be so much larger than Hanifin would give them as a current upgrade on D.

With the 6 D, and 9 currently signed forwards(with Mitts) from your hypothetical, and UPL as their starting goalie, by your numbers they would be at 78.5M. That leaves them 9 million for 7 players, (a 7th D, a back up goalie, an entire 4th line and 2 extras). Assuming Levi is the back up goalie, (which may or may not be a season killer right there), filling their bottom six with more 19-22 year olds when they are already overflowing with under 23 players makes them completely uncompetitive.

We are seeing it now. The young guys get steamrolled regularly by teams that goon it up on them. This teams biggest problem is that it lacks physicality and compete of older players that will battle. Hanifin does not really add much combativeness, despite his size.

What the Sabres really need (besides a new coaching system), is to replace a few of their young guys with warriors that make life miserable for the opposing teams. Adding Hanifin and three more rookies almost guarantees this team a top 5 pick in the 2025 draft, imo.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

In theory, yes, they could squeeze Hanifin in, but the holes that would create would be so much larger than Hanifin would give them as a current upgrade on D.

With the 6 D, and 9 currently signed forwards(with Mitts) from your hypothetical, and UPL as their starting goalie, by your numbers they would be at 78.5M. That leaves them 9 million for 7 players, (a 7th D, a back up goalie, an entire 4th line and 2 extras). Assuming Levi is the back up goalie, (which may or may not be a season killer right there), filling their bottom six with more 19-22 year olds when they are already overflowing with under 23 players makes them completely uncompetitive.

We are seeing it now. The young guys get steamrolled regularly by teams that goon it up on them. This teams biggest problem is that it lacks physicality and compete of older players that will battle. Hanifin does not really add much combativeness, despite his size.

What the Sabres really need (besides a new coaching system), is to replace a few of their young guys with warriors that make life miserable for the opposing teams. Adding Hanifin and three more rookies almost guarantees this team a top 5 pick in the 2025 draft, imo.

Fair argument. I think the lack of stability on D is an even bigger issue than that, because 4th line guys can be found for cheap whereas #3 dmen can't. But maybe you go for a guy like Tanev or Brodie as a short-term, lower-end alternative and then spend more on the bottom-6. I just don't think that makes your team a playoff team either.

 

[Irie]

Fair argument. I think the lack of stability on D is an even bigger issue than that, because 4th line guys can be found for cheap whereas #3 dmen can't. But maybe you go for a guy like Tanev or Brodie as a short-term, lower-end alternative and then spend more on the bottom-6. I just don't think that makes your team a playoff team either.

The problem is that they would be replacing all their forwards with jam that PK and take the tough minutes and difficult assignments with rookies.(Grigensons, Okposo, Krebs). This team is already the softest team in the league. You can't win in the NHL without compete.

Honestly, if Samuelsson and Dahlin play anywhere close to how they played the last season and a half, the D shouldn't really be a major concern. I believe there are injuries at play here that are creating a problem that is only temporary.

Tanev would be great if they could move clifton out in the process, I am just not sure the cost would be worth the effort for the short term gains.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

The problem is that they would be replacing all their forwards with jam that PK and take the tough minutes and difficult assignments with rookies.(Grigensons, Okposo, Krebs). This team is already the softest team in the league. You can't win in the NHL without compete.

Honestly, if Samuelsson and Dahlin play anywhere close to how they played the last season and a half, the D shouldn't really be a major concern. I believe there are injuries at play here that are creating a problem that is only temporary.

Tanev would be great if they could move clifton out in the process, I am just not sure the cost would be worth the effort for the short term gains.

Understandable. Can I interest you in a lightly used Dillon Dube? Making 2.3 right now but likely won’t get qualified and could be re-signed around $1.5 mil. He’s got the motor, spoed, toughness, and pk-ability you’re describing. Just can’t create offense for his life lol.

I obviously defer to your judgment here with specific line combos, but imo your ideal lineup next yr looks something like:

Skinner-TT-Tuch
Kulich/Benson-Mittelstadt-Quinn
Kulich/Benson-Cozens-Peterka
Greenway-_____-Okposo/UFA

Samuelson/upgrade-Dahlin
Upgrade/Samuelsson-Power
Johnson-Clifton

UPL
UFA vet

If you need to move Tuch down to a checking line to balance the toughness, try a young guy on the top-line and move him into the middle-6. Imo there are plenty of UFA’s that could fill out the fourth line C for cheap. A guy like Dube would fit will there for 1.5 max. No reason to pay Okposo more than 2–there are plenty of 4th line RW that on the UFA market. flames got Grier for nothing and he’s been great.

My bottom line is, good pro scouting should be able to fill out that bottom-6 with good forecheckers with size that can PK for cheap. No reason to have the Kulich’s/Rosen’s in that checking role. But imo finding that D upgrade is where you’ll have to pay more (both value and dollar wise) than you’d want to provide that stability and allows Power to turn into the top-pairing, play-driving guy he can be. If the upgrade is an RD and allows Power to stay on the left side that’s great, but if prioritize BPQ over handedness for sure.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Understandable. Can I interest you in a lightly used Dillon Dube? Making 2.3 right now but likely won’t get qualified and could be re-signed around $1.5 mil. He’s got the motor, spoed, toughness, and pk-ability you’re describing. Just can’t create offense for his life lol.

I obviously defer to your judgment here with specific line combos, but imo your ideal lineup next yr looks something like:

Skinner-TT-Tuch
Kulich/Benson-Mittelstadt-Quinn
Kulich/Benson-Cozens-Peterka
Greenway-_____-Okposo/UFA

Samuelson/upgrade-Dahlin
Upgrade/Samuelsson-Power
Johnson-Clifton

UPL
UFA vet

If you need to move Tuch down to a checking line to balance the toughness, try a young guy on the top-line and move him into the middle-6. Imo there are plenty of UFA’s that could fill out the fourth line C for cheap. A guy like Dube would fit will there for 1.5 max. No reason to pay Okposo more than 2–there are plenty of 4th line RW that on the UFA market. flames got Grier for nothing and he’s been great.

My bottom line is, good pro scouting should be able to fill out that bottom-6 with good forecheckers with size that can PK for cheap. No reason to have the Kulich’s/Rosen’s in that checking role. But imo finding that D upgrade is where you’ll have to pay more (both value and dollar wise) than you’d want to provide that stability and allows Power to turn into the top-pairing, play-driving guy he can be. If the upgrade is an RD and allows Power to stay on the left side that’s great, but if prioritize BPQ over handedness for sure.

About that pro scouting thing…

 

[Irie]

Understandable. Can I interest you in a lightly used Dillon Dube? Making 2.3 right now but likely won’t get qualified and could be re-signed around $1.5 mil. He’s got the motor, spoed, toughness, and pk-ability you’re describing. Just can’t create offense for his life lol.

I obviously defer to your judgment here with specific line combos, but imo your ideal lineup next yr looks something like:

Skinner-TT-Tuch
Kulich/Benson-Mittelstadt-Quinn
Kulich/Benson-Cozens-Peterka
Greenway-_____-Okposo/UFA

Samuelson/upgrade-Dahlin
Upgrade/Samuelsson-Power
Johnson-Clifton

UPL
UFA vet

If you need to move Tuch down to a checking line to balance the toughness, try a young guy on the top-line and move him into the middle-6. Imo there are plenty of UFA’s that could fill out the fourth line C for cheap. A guy like Dube would fit will there for 1.5 max. No reason to pay Okposo more than 2–there are plenty of 4th line RW that on the UFA market. flames got Grier for nothing and he’s been great.

My bottom line is, good pro scouting should be able to fill out that bottom-6 with good forecheckers with size that can PK for cheap. No reason to have the Kulich’s/Rosen’s in that checking role. But imo finding that D upgrade is where you’ll have to pay more (both value and dollar wise) than you’d want to provide that stability and allows Power to turn into the top-pairing, play-driving guy he can be. If the upgrade is an RD and allows Power to stay on the left side that’s great, but if prioritize BPQ over handedness for sure.

I think a guy like Dube could be a nice depth filler, but I personally would rather have Girgensons back in that role. I don't watch a lot of Flames, but I think Dube is a player that might be better equipped to play up the lineup as a depth option and give you more offense than Zemgus, but from what I have seen, I think "Gus" is the better bottom six player right now, which is really what the Sabres need. (They could do better than both players though if I am being completely honest).

One would think that filling out the bottom six would be an easy task, but the Sabres have a very tough sell for even bottom six players to come and sign in Buffalo. People around here like to call that an excuse for the GMs not doing much, but it is pretty well documented that good hockey players in their 20s with options usually choose other markets to play in.

I imagine as a Flames fan you see some of that, but I think Buffalo is an even tougher sell.

As for Tuch, he's been a revelation since he came to Buffalo. Nearly a PPG 30G power forward with size and speed that opponents can't contain. He's been fighting something this season, but looks to be getting healthy finally. Every linemate he's played with has had a bump in production, so I don't think they drop him out of the top 6.(at least I hope they aren't that dumb to do so).

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I think a guy like Dube could be a nice depth filler, but I personally would rather have Girgensons back in that role. I don't watch a lot of Flames, but I think Dube is a player that might be better equipped to play up the lineup as a depth option and give you more offense than Zemgus, but from what I have seen, I think "Gus" is the better bottom six player right now, which is really what the Sabres need. (They could do better than both players though if I am being completely honest).

One would think that filling out the bottom six would be an easy task, but the Sabres have a very tough sell for even bottom six players to come and sign in Buffalo. People around here like to call that an excuse for the GMs not doing much, but it is pretty well documented that good hockey players in their 20s with options usually choose other markets to play in.

I imagine as a Flames fan you see some of that, but I think Buffalo is an even tougher sell.

As for Tuch, he's been a revelation since he came to Buffalo. Nearly a PPG 30G power forward with size and speed that opponents can't contain. He's been fighting something this season, but looks to be getting healthy finally. Every linemate he's played with has had a bump in production, so I don't think they drop him out of the top 6.(at least I hope they aren't that dumb to do so).

Ya fair, I actually love Tuch and thought he was destined for a top-6 role since his early days in Vegas. I just meant move him around to balance size on every line.

And agreed about Buffalo not being an attractive destination. That’s exactly why I think any potential top-4 D upgrade would likely have to come through trade. And that that’s a much harder piece to find compared to bottom-6 guys. Honestly it seems like the forward group is pretty filled out already with plenty of good prospects in the pipeline. So unless you plan to keep cap open to overpay for bottom-6 upgrades, I think it makes more sense to pay up to get that legit #2/3 D to help Power develop and stabilize the top-4 and spend late picks on cheap 4th line additions as needed. You can always send a late pick for a good 4th liner, but those legit D are rarely available through trade.

 

[Irie]

Ya fair, I actually love Tuch and thought he was destined for a top-6 role since his early days in Vegas. I just meant move him around to balance size on every line.

And agreed about Buffalo not being an attractive destination. That’s exactly why I think any potential top-4 D upgrade would likely have to come through trade. And that that’s a much harder piece to find compared to bottom-6 guys. Honestly it seems like the forward group is pretty filled out already with plenty of good prospects in the pipeline. So unless you plan to keep cap open to overpay for bottom-6 upgrades, I think it makes more sense to pay up to get that legit #2/3 D to help Power develop and stabilize the top-4 and spend late picks on cheap 4th line additions as needed. You can always send a late pick for a good 4th liner, but those legit D are rarely available through trade.

The forward group really is loaded with good players on this team and the forward depth on the farm is amazing..... Problem is that it is very homogenized with small, soft, skilled players.

Having Tuch, Thompson and Cozens be the muscle and do the on-ice policing is a problem. Great group of talent, but terribly unbalanced if you want to compete in the NHL.

I totally agree, that good bottom six players should be easy to procure, but the reality seems to be that many teams have trouble acquiring quality bottom six guys without absolutely paying ridiculous prices to acquire or huge overpays -supply and demand I suppose.

With the Sabres D being super young but consisting of Dahlin, Power, Samuelson, Jokiharju and R. Johnson, the chances of them coming up with two quality pairings that can find chemistry to fill their top 4 is much more likely than Buffalo icing a strong bottom six anytime soon from within, so while I agree that a D upgrade would be beneficial, I feel it is far from the biggest organizational hole. And then there are the cap constraints - I am just not sure you can be competitive with a D core making 35+ Million