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Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

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BFLO said:
Do short handed goals against not count towards who wins the game?

Do you think it's a coincidence that Jeff Skinner is tied for most in the league in on-ice PP goals against while he leads our forwards in PP Toi?
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Yes I do. How many Short Handed goals were scored while he was on the ice, vs how many goals were scored directly because of his actions on said PP? One is more important to the narrative of what you are attempting to say than the other.
 
OkimLom said:
Yes I do. How many Short Handed goals were scored while he was on the ice, vs how many goals were scored directly because of his actions on said PP? One is more important to the narrative of what you are attempting to say than the other.
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Skinner has been on the ice for 13 goals for, 6 against on the PP.

That's a 68.42 GF%.

The Sabres are 32nd in the league in GF% on the PP with a 69.57%. 16 goals for, 7 against

Skinner is known for his 5v5 goal scoring prowess. Throughout his career he's never had to lean on the PP to boost his production, in part because he's not very good on the PP, so coaches haven't played him there.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Sabres have the worst PP in the league now that Skinner is the leading pp toi forward for the team?

edit: Skinner only has 7 power play points
 
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Irie said:
Kessel's top icetime linemate on the Pens was Malkin for both cup years and all of his PPG years

Kessel has always been able to create offense on his own, but he never "drove" offense in a sense that he made lesser linemates more productive.

As for Skinner, you were watching different games than I was if you saw him not trying under Kreuger on the 4th line. He was crashing the net, whacking at goalies, getting his teeth kicked in trying to create offense by himself every game. Problem was he was playing with Sobotka (who actually had completely given up caring or trying), or other non-driving players like Sheary, Lazar and Johansson.

Skinner is a goal scorer and a pest. To say that a quote about a player like him not scoring goals being a problem.... is that supposed to be some kind of miraculous epiphany?

He is a flawed player, but he is a useful player *if* used correctly. Most cup teams have a player like Skinner potting goals that are weak on D. Chicago had Kane. Washington has Kusnetzov. The Pens had Kessel in their last two cups, and a 75 year old Sykora in their cup 15 years ago. St. Louis had Tarasenko. Kings had Penner. The list goes on and on.

Is Skinner a great player? no, but if used correctly, he can be a positive value. Buying him out would be 6 years of cap penalty. I think you wait at least one more season before contemplating that (2025) when the team will be desperate for cap and Skinner will likely be trending downward more than he currently is.
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The issue here is you don't really gain much by waiting a year to buy him out.

A buyout this summer is a 1M/4M/6M/2.4M/2.4M/2.4M

Next summer is 4M/6M/2M/2M

The big savings there is one less trailing year.

By the time the last year of his buyout is there, the cap will be 100M+.

It's been 13 years since a playoff appearance. It's time to stop punting and worry about a little dead cap that is easily mitigatable and start worrying about how to not waste all these years of top draft picks on their ELCs
 
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Team Cozens said:
Started thinking about what players would be good adds to the team now.... Tanev, Savard, Pescue..... maybe a goalie and ship down Levi... need some heavy forwards......

Then I realized that I just don't care anymore.
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You've already put more effort and thought into improving the roster with this single post than Adams will for the remainder of this season and upcoming offseason.
 
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MOGlLNY said:
Im just so checked out on this group. Cant even imagine what the casuals are like.

What a disappointment.
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I haven't been this disappointed in a season since the first season with ROR. Such an unlikeable group full of cringe moments. Ill never forget Dahlin's letter to the fans telling them to come back because this team is different. I believe they followed it up with a big lossat home. Regardless, the team is completely ass at home, so that letter is cringey as hell in hindsight.
 
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Among many roster problems, I feel like picking on the choice to have Krebs lead the 4th line. It was such a risky, now damaging, move to attempt to break in a 21-22yo at a grinder spot while also attempting to break in a half dozen other kids.

He honestly should have been in Roch this entire time, he's never shown consistent NHL aptitude imo. Adams should have splashed the cash and cap on a vet C like Dickinson for two years (along with another new 4th liner). Then we'd at least have a reliable 4th line when the kids on scoring lines have growing pains.

I don't want to believe that it's been about pride and perception of the Eichel trade, but it can't be ruled out unfortunately.
 
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Irie said:
I agree, but I think 2025 could be an option if his play falls off considerably and that extra 5M is needed to not lose an important player to the cap.
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Sure if he falls off a cliff. I’m assuming he doesnt
BFLO said:
Skinner has been on the ice for 13 goals for, 6 against on the PP.

That's a 68.42 GF%.

The Sabres are 32nd in the league in GF% on the PP with a 69.57%. 16 goals for, 7 against

Skinner is known for his 5v5 goal scoring prowess. Throughout his career he's never had to lean on the PP to boost his production, in part because he's not very good on the PP, so coaches haven't played him there.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Sabres have the worst PP in the league now that Skinner is the leading toi forward for the team?
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grabbing at straws I see.
HOOats said:
Among many roster problems, I feel like picking on the choice to have Krebs lead the 4th line. It was such a risky, now damaging, move to attempt to break in a 21-22yo at a grinder spot while also attempting to break in a half dozen other kids.

He honestly should have been in Roch this entire time, he's never shown consistent NHL aptitude imo. Adams should have splashed the cash and cap on a vet C like Dickinson for two years (along with another new 4th liner). Then we'd at least have a reliable 4th line when the kids on scoring lines have growing pains.

I don't want to believe that it's been about pride and perception of the Eichel trade, but it can't be ruled out unfortunately.
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sure, I preferred sending Krebs down before he hit 160 games and waiver e emotion expires. Therr coukd be things in the locker room I don’t know about.

him being up in buffalo isn’t the reason for the teams problem. Most could play 4C
 
BFLO said:
Skinner has been on the ice for 13 goals for, 6 against on the PP.

That's a 68.42 GF%.

The Sabres are 32nd in the league in GF% on the PP with a 69.57%. 16 goals for, 7 against

Skinner is known for his 5v5 goal scoring prowess. Throughout his career he's never had to lean on the PP to boost his production, in part because he's not very good on the PP, so coaches haven't played him there.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Sabres have the worst PP in the league now that Skinner is the leading pp toi forward for the team?

edit: Skinner only has 7 power play points
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Again, yes, think it's a coincidence that they have the worst PP while Skinner is the leading PP TOI Forward on the team. It's a 10 second gap between Skinner and Thompson (in PP TOI/GP). Both men getting less PP than last year. But again, I ask what is happening for those 7 goals against when on the PP. and how much of an impact does Skinner have? If he has a direct hand in those turnovers leading to those moments, then you might have a case.

Personally I think there's more reasoning of the in-effectiveness of the PP shooting from others that has a bigger impact on why our PP is ranked low, looking at Tuch and Thompson's Shooting%. Last year, Thompson (24.8%) is down quite a bit (8.3%), Tuch (22.8%) is now down (6.2%). Skinner is up from 13.5% last year to 18.1%. Having two of your 3 top forward PP guys having ridiculously low shooting seasons will have a much larger impact on the PP.
 
I think individual roster players are not the problem. We have 6 first round picks on defence with 3 of them first overall. It’s the system. I don’t think you can evaluate individual talent

The poor pp is the system goals usually come by individual talent. Same with the breakouts. He’ll last nights second goal was the only sequence where I could see a planned play.

The assistant coaches just are not cutting it. And whoever selected them should be on hot seat.

ValJamesDuex said:
Skinner UBI, scan today per Granato. Kulich call up ?
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Oh good now that skinner is gone now all problems are solved and Sabres go on a tear. NOT. This will hurt
 
Jimmybarndoor2 said:
I think individual roster players are not the problem. We have 6 first round picks on defence with 3 of them first overall. It’s the system. I don’t think you can evaluate individual talent

The poor pp is the system goals usually come by individual talent. Same with the breakouts. He’ll last nights second goal was the only sequence where I could see a planned play.

The assistant coaches just are not cutting it. And whoever selected them should be on hot seat.


Oh good now that skinner is gone now all problems are solved and Sabres go on a tear. NOT. This will hurt
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1. IF he's out for at least a few games
2. and IF the Sabres recall Kulich (or Rosen)
3. and IF Granato gives the call up a chance at a reasonable facsimile of the TOI and usage that Skinner gets
4. OR if Quinn / Peterka is used in that usage

Then we can have a better feel for how viable "replacing Skinner" can be.

I just don't trust Granato to give a call up a reasonable chance. Kulich will be called up and given 4th line minutes, then sent back down as "not ready".
 
Ehran said:
1. IF he's out for at least a few games
2. and IF the Sabres recall Kulich (or Rosen)
3. and IF Granato gives the call up a chance at a reasonable facsimile of the TOI and usage that Skinner gets
4. OR if Quinn / Peterka is used in that usage

Then we can have a better feel for how viable "replacing Skinner" can be.

I just don't trust Granato to give a call up a reasonable chance. Kulich will be called up and given 4th line minutes, then sent back down as "not ready".
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That list reminds me of this scene -

 
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BFLO said:
Jeff Skinner is a -1 this season. He's not outscoring his defensive deficiencies. He's had a positive +/- exactly twice in his career. His rookie season, and last season.

The idea of getting rid of Skinner is more about the culture change of getting rid of the ring-leader of the "forwards who refuse to play a 200ft game", which would allow a coach to establish some accountability.

You can't bench other guys for refusing to play a 200ft game and then give Skinner 1st line and 1st unit PP minutes and expect anyone to take you seriously. It's impossible to establish a winning system and culture with a guy like Skinner getting 20 minutes a night who refuses to play the system.

And we've already seen how he responds to being demoted.

It's sunk cost fallacy to continue on with Skinner. We can flush the next 3 seasons and this entire rebuild down the drain by keeping him around, or we can move on.

edit: Kessel drove offense on the 3rd line for the penguins. Skinner is a passenger, not a driver and he's 1st line or bust.
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Complete nonsense. It’s like you created a fictional version of Skinner to attack.

For starters, a player’s 200ft game is talking about their play 5v5.

Skinner at 5v5 among the 13 forwards with at least 200mins

Goals -> 10 (tied 1st)
Points -> 24 (2nd)
ATOI —-> 13:32 (4th)
Goal differential-> +6 (3rd)
Takeaway/Giveaway differential-> +8 (tied for 2nd)

On what planet would a coach need to justify a player getting that ice time putting up those numbers ? It’s certainly not this one.

I can recognize Skinner’s flaws while also understanding he’s mostly been the player we need him to be. He’s certainly not the player you’re describing above.

Where did the 20mins come from? Did you just make it up? His overall atoi this season is 17:25. Thats 4th overall among forwards Behind Mitts, Tage and Tuch. Its also roughly what he’s played for Granato the last several years. He‘s never at any point in his career had an overall atoi of 20mins.
 
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@BFLO

The guy who actually has played 20mins 5v5 (19:49) and getting caved in is Dahlin.

20 skaters have played 200mins

Dahlin’s GF% is 19th (41.4%) and his goal differential is 20th (-12)

Should we plan to move on from him with the same zeal?
 
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joshjull said:
@BFLO

The guy who actually has played 20mins 5v5 (19:49) and getting caved in is Dahlin.

20 skaters have played 200mins

Dahlin’s GF% is 19th (41.4%) and his goal differential is 20th (-12)

Should we plan to move on from him with the same zeal?
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Is he playing injured? If so, that seems to be his MO every season. Incredibly frustrating how bad all of our core players have been this year. The most frustrating part is, a lot of it seems due to either a lack of focus, a lack of effort, or a lack of both.

Ok. I did my weekly rant in this thread. I'll go back to hiding in the Bills thread again, haha.
 
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Dubi Doo said:
Is he playing injured? If so, that seems to be his MO every season. Incredibly frustrating how bad all of our core players have been this year. The most frustrating part is, a lot of it seems due to either a lack of focus, a lack of effort, or a lack of both.

Ok. I did my weekly rant in this thread. I'll go back to hiding in the Bills thread again, haha.
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I don’t know if he‘s injured or not. He certainly looks flustered and keeps trying to make things happen with very low percentage/risky plays.
 
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