Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Ehran]

I smile to think what this team will be like once they can suit up Girgensons, Greenway, and Robinson at the same time.

 

[Irie]

No. What’s dumb is thinking I was implying something that I wasn’t. Skinner is the one in his 14th NHL season without a playoff appearance, not the Sabres.

He’s not THE reason the Sabres haven’t made the playoffs in 12 going on 13 years. But he’s certainly A reason.

Context.

You said:

He's the player embodiment of "losing culture"

and then

They did not miss Skinner at all in his first absence last night.

The fact that you are talking about Skinner and not the Sabres in the playoff drought (12 going on 13 vs 14) is incredibly unclear, but it really isn't even an afterthought of my point, but I do apologize for misunderstanding you.

My points do remain, a buyout is bad business if Skinner continues to produce. Granato just has to use him properly and he can be a positive asset (total cap hit aside).

If deployed correctly, Skinner likely is worth more than the opportunity cost of what the buyout returns the team, and that does not even take into account the added years of dead cap for each year bought out.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Think Comrie could be headed to Carolina possibly ?

 

[Ehran]

Think Comrie could be headed to Carolina possibly ?

Huh.... I mean, that's not a bad idea.

 

[BFLO]

Context.

You said:


and then


The fact that you are talking about Skinner and not the Sabres in the playoff drought (12 going on 13 vs 14) is incredibly unclear, but it really isn't even an afterthought of my point, but I do apologize for misunderstanding you.

My points do remain, a buyout is bad business if Skinner continues to produce. Granato just has to use him properly and he can be a positive asset (total cap hit aside).

If deployed correctly, Skinner likely is worth more than the opportunity cost of what the buyout returns the team, and that does not even take into account the added years of dead cap for each year bought out.

I think the reason to buyout Skinner would be to change the culture. Can’t have a player like that getting top line minutes and PP1 time while ignoring the coaching, killing the accountability and buy in from the rest of the team.

But I don't see this regime making that kind of move. They're more than happy not to rock the boat and to play out the string while continuing to preach patience.

 

[sabremike]

I think the reason to buyout Skinner would be to change the culture. Can’t have a player like that getting top line minutes and PP1 time while ignoring the coaching, killing the accountability and buy in from the rest of the team.

But I don't see this regime making that kind of move. They're more than happy not to rock the boat and to play out the string while continuing to preach patience.

Buy out Granato and his staff > Buy out Skinner.

 

[SundherDome]

Think Comrie could be headed to Carolina possibly ?

Ranta is their Comrie

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I think the reason to buyout Skinner would be to change the culture. Can’t have a player like that getting top line minutes and PP1 time while ignoring the coaching, killing the accountability and buy in from the rest of the team.

But I don't see this regime making that kind of move. They're more than happy not to rock the boat and to play out the string while continuing to preach patience.

Just don't put him on the top line and PP1 lol? Why do you have to buy him out? He's still effective 5v5 offensively. Take advantage of his strengths and try to limit his weak points.

Krueger buried him & Granato lets him do what he wants. Should be a middle ground somewhere. A good coach should be able to do that.

 

[Dex]

With all the preceding talk about Skinner in this thread and others, and taking all of the pros and cons into consideration, is it possible that when all is said and done - that his greatest contribution to Buffalo hockey occurred off-ice and may just might be the Between Two Stalls series? I mean *that* was pure gold.

 

[nickdawg95]

skinner has been our most consistent player all year. Tage and cozens have been lackluster so far

 

[Chainshot]

Ranta is their Comrie

Worse.

 

[SundherDome]

Worse.

At that point they are all the same category

 

[StrompTroller]

With all the preceding talk about Skinner in this thread and others, and taking all of the pros and cons into consideration, is it possible that when all is said and done - that his greatest contribution to Buffalo hockey occurred off-ice and may just might be the Between Two Stalls series? I mean *that* was pure gold.

if Rod the bod couldn't figure out how to do that then Granato definitely can't...

 

[debaser66]

Buy out Granato and his staff > Buy out Skinner.

I am sure Granato is the best thing for Skinner to keep some kind of value, he would be very quickly in the dog house with a coach that enforces any kind of discipline.

 

[Djp]

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Roster construction is poor, not just in similar archetypes but also intellect. There's only 2 cerebral forwards in Benson and Mitts the others use their athleticism to get by. Peterka is a perfect example of all speed down the wing followed half the time by a poor angle shot which rims out of the zone. Adams will have tough decisions in how to best just rig the roster going forward

 

[Irie]

I think the reason to buyout Skinner would be to change the culture. Can’t have a player like that getting top line minutes and PP1 time while ignoring the coaching, killing the accountability and buy in from the rest of the team.

But I don't see this regime making that kind of move. They're more than happy not to rock the boat and to play out the string while continuing to preach patience.

Feels like you are now just making false statements to bag on a player.

"Ignores the coach". "Killing accountability"... You have heard the coaching staff or people in the organization claim this?

 

[Mattilaus]

Feels like you are now just making false statements to bag on a player.

"Ignores the coach". "Killing accountability"... You have heard the coaching staff or people in the organization claim this?

I am not saying they are correlated but a certain podcast has been taking their turn ragging on Skinner for weeks now. I honestly can't say which way I fall. I still don't feel like we are a playoff team by removing him so it's a moot point to me until we fix the rest of the issues.

 

[Irie]

I am not saying they are correlated but a certain podcast has been taking their turn ragging on Skinner for weeks now. I honestly can't say which way I fall. I still don't feel like we are a playoff team by removing him so it's a moot point to me until we fix the rest of the issues.

I have a feeling there is a strong correlation.

I think several posters in here are heavily influenced by what some of these internet personalities say. They hear a position on a show that these talking heads present well, and even if it is totally flawed, some casual fans think, "that sorta makes sense", and then they adopt the position and get out their pitchforks and join the mob mentality of finding a scapegoat.

There are a couple of posters who's only purpose on these forums seems to be to try to manipulate facts and turn public opinion against certain players or front office personnel. Their targets change each year, but their tactics are always the same, and year after year, they have a target and try to manipulate others into believing that target is the reason for all the teams problems.

 

[Tatanka]

Roster construction is poor, not just in similar archetypes but also intellect. There's only 2 cerebral forwards in Benson and Mitts the others use their athleticism to get by. Peterka is a perfect example of all speed down the wing followed half the time by a poor angle shot which rims out of the zone. Adams will have tough decisions in how to best just rig the roster going forward

Peterka’s the problem? Ok.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Peterka’s the problem? Ok.

You missed the point, I was using that as an example. I could of used any of the maligned children like Cozens, Tuch etc that do the same thing. Far too often they do the low chance stupid play

 

[Tatanka]

You missed the point, I was using that as an example. I could of used any of the maligned children like Cozens, Tuch etc that do the same thing. Far too often they do the low chance stupid play

I agree on the low IQ play, I take exception to lumping Peterka in. He also has been more aggressively attacking the middle. But the dumb flu is rampant and it is most noticeable from the guys tabbed as oir top players. To me that is both frightening and depressing.

 

[Beerz]

 

[Der Jaeger]

Agreed. They have a lot of prospects. Most of them are very, very similar in style however.



They have? In terms of prospects, sure. In actual talent on their team, they have 2 regular skaters. who they drafted outside of the first round on the roster - and that's Peterka who went at 34 and Olofsson who was a Regier pick. I would say they have traditionally not done well in this under the various Pegula (and even pre-Pegula) management of the team.



Yep. They need to figure out who they want to keep and who they can trade. Are they still trying to trend set by having three scoring lines and no defensive responsibility in this league? Because that's what it looks like.



They do. They do not have many extra picks however.



Are they great though?



I'll give that a maybe. Thompson remains an interesting bundle of one-on-one skills and I still don't see him providing f*** all in the defensive zone.


Mostly agree. Though they don't all seem to be able to perform at a high level simultaneously at the moment.



Sure. The haven't shown they can leverage that cap space though. When they do, that'll be new.


Maybe.



The high-end prospects are almost all cut from the same cloth - offensive guys who haven't been shaped into mid-line NHLers. There is a notable lack of physical players in their pipeline and while there is a lot of size already in the NHL lineup, there is also a need for applied size coming from within. And that's some of what is missing at the NHL level that they don't really have the time to break in if they're not simply going to write off yet more seasons.

GM's by their nature seem to be conservative to a fault, so I wonder at one coming in to try to use prospects to fix what is wrong in a prompt fashion. We've seen how Murray wheeled-and-dealed without regard for character, sobriety, and attitude. Perhaps a new person would be better at it. That would then be if someone is willing to work with the career eater that is the Pegula-led Sabres.

Clearly the vibes are gone and that was to be expected. The staff has not shown they can mold these guys into effective NHLers or have an adaptive, adequate powerplay. The comments that teaching defense is easy... well let's see it. I had fears that the unwinding would be complacency of their staff and roster and that has been borne out with how they have struggled. As was pointed out, they didn't sandbag the Avs, they tried to out run and out gun them with stupid stretch passing and massive gaps between their forwards and D. And that's been regular - the staff, Don and his cohort of Cincy buddies - don't have their charges ready to play AND they aren't improving in the areas that they need to improve to be competitive in the NHL right now. They didn't try to improve the staff over the summer - afraid to upset the vibes, rather than striving to improve - and here we are.


As a personal take: I would also question the impact of some of the deals they have signed with how players have responded. There were a lot of vacation photos this summer. There didn't seem to be the sense of professional development and striving to come to camp ready. And that comes from some of their best. That's Dahlin and Cozens in particular to me.

A new GM is probably going to want his own guy behind the bench. We know Terry has been dogshit at hiring both. It feels like they were on the cusp of something and right at the moment, with decision on staff and prospects and finding key external personnel, they've flopped.

I thought about what you wrote this weekend during the drives to and from our tournament this weekend.

Overall: I don't disagree with anything you wrote.

To sum up my thoughts: If I were a veteran GM who wanted to get another job or a different job, the Sabres are the team I'd try to get into. Teardown GMs tend not to make it to the end of the teardown or far into the rebuild. Adams is falling into the rebuild GM problem, which is that he's made very good trades to tear down and the patience not to piss away draft picks or prospects. But the results aren't there, and they aren't going to come fast.

An accomplished, veteran GM that's has the sense to listen to his scouts and not piss away assets could make 1-2 good trades and fix the team. The assets are definitely available.

 

[SundherDome]

I thought about what you wrote this weekend during the drives to and from our tournament this weekend.

Overall: I don't disagree with anything you wrote.

To sum up my thoughts: If I were a veteran GM who wanted to get another job or a different job, the Sabres are the team I'd try to get into. Teardown GMs tend not to make it to the end of the teardown or far into the rebuild. Adams is falling into the rebuild GM problem, which is that he's made very good trades to tear down and the patience not to piss away draft picks or prospects. But the results aren't there, and they aren't going to come fast.

An accomplished, veteran GM that's has the sense to listen to his scouts and not piss away assets could make 1-2 good trades and fix the team. The assets are definitely available.

I agree with the above, sans the 1-2 good trades to fix the team. I don't think those trades are out there and if they are, it will be very painful