Roster Talk: Nearing the 20 game mark

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I don't think it will necessarily spread out the defense the way you suggest, I just disagree there, but I can see where you're coming from--I just think it will lead to people fronting shots even harder in an effort to force shots from bad angles/below the circles so the goalies can still cover as much net as possible; and then the big goalies like Bishop and Rinne become even more valuable. But more shots from random spots = more goals is, like I said, arbitrary/artificial. If the only thing that really changes is the actual box score, is it really more exciting hockey? If our game vs. TB was 6-5 instead of lower, but it looked exactly the same, is the 'problem' solved? I'm not convinced.

To me, it's a combination of systems play, goalie equipment, and loose calling of interference. Changing the nets peripherally fixes #2, but I just think it's a no-no, like changing the rink dimensions; I'd much rather see advances in technology let the goalie gear be a bit more form-fitting so the percentage goaltenders have to work a little harder too. I don't have an answer as to how to truly work with the systems play; but you'll notice the highest scoring teams are those who aren't scared to take some offensive risks with things like centering passes and pinches, things that become turnovers, which gives coaches of less talented teams headaches because they don't have the talent to keep up with pond hockey. I WOULD like to see interference and obstruction called liberally like it was after the lockout. Promote flow, not just scoring.

Don't get me wrong, I"m not convinced the Kings roster is built for such a game, we're built for lockout era smash hockey, but you start promoting a game where the emphasis is on speed, skill, and exploiting open ice, and the rosters and player development will follow.

You are probably the most pleasant person to disagree with on these entire boards, I respect that. :handclap:

Truth is none of use know exactly how it would play out, which is why the NHL typically tests major rule changes in lower leagues first. I just think the reality is the systems are not going to change, defense wins championships in just about every major US sport I can think of. Goalies are going to continue to get bigger and bigger, and even with goalie pad changes (which I support) the available net to shoot at is going to get smaller. Coaches are going to do whatever they can to prevent goals no matter what the rules are, and I don't see a way to change that.

I also think interference and holding is called a TON, which is part of the reason teams just collapse now and block shots, because you can't be physical with defending the player themself. Players have adapted to the new style interference rules and in my opinion it has not gone back to what it used to be pre-lockout. I also am not a fan of hockey where the majority of goals are scored on the power play, I would prefer to see more even strength scoring. The best way I see to do this is the nets.

As far as history, yes it changes things somewhat, but we already discount player stats from the 80's because of the era, ect ect. Goalie stats are all inflated to an all time high, which also doesn't compare to previous eras. Changing the size of the nets to me is very similar to when they changed the height of the mound in MLB in 1969, was a big deal then but today that's just how the game is played.
 
Speaking of roster strengths, though, I thought this was a funny aside from Friedman's 30 Thoughts last week. This is Hakstol re: Philly's breakouts and zone entries:

"The other end is a problem, though, and Hakstol didn’t hide from it.

“We have to improve our ratio (of carry-ins to dump-ins). It’s not good enough.â€

What is the perfect ratio?

“Changes on a game-to-game basis. Some teams let you go outside with speed. L.A. doesn’t let you do anything.â€"

Gave me a good chuckle. We're such a pain in the ass.

We do tend to not allow teams to do that. Maybe its why teams are always trying to use the stretch pass through the middle so much on their breakouts.
 
To me, it's not the nets, it's the equipment. Equipment in the 1960s was HEAVY. It was so heavy, that some goalies wouldn't even wear chest protectors. The arm padding was skimpy, but for what was there, it was heavy also. The goalie pads were leather, get wet, and then weigh a ton. The pants goalies wore was heavy. Blocker pads were small. Catching gloves were small. You get the general picture. You take the actual size dimensions of today's equipment, and put all of it in the materials and fabric of the 1960s, and you won't see one goalie hardly ever making saves. They go to push off, and just tip over!!! To me, the lighter newer materials are all just fine, but as all this changed, goalies started realizing they could wear larger equipment at near or less than the same weight. When you watch a classic game on TV and it looks like the goalies hardly have any gear on, I can tell you that they are wearing more pounds of gear than today's goalies. They just need to go back to the dimensions of the equipment that existed 50 years ago.

It's like this now!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KFiN9C4t3rc
 
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Dustin Brown is getting more PP ice time than last year by 9 seconds, has one assist to show for it (that's one more assist than me) I want to know why. We saw this ice time loyalty to Mike Richards and Stoll last season and it helped sink the Kings. Stoll's ice time with the Rangers has dropped by a full minute from 1:03 last season to :03 this year and his ES ice time has dropped from 15:29 to 13:44 so it didn't take long for the Rangers coach to see something Sutter could not. Richards is out of the NHL, the question is what is the deal with this loyalty to veterans when it is crystal clear Dustin Brown is DONE as a useful NHL player. He no longer hits, his shooting percentage is at a career low 2.8%a and he refuses to go to the middle of the ice because he has become soft.
 
Dustin Brown is getting more PP ice time than last year by 9 seconds, has one assist to show for it (that's one more assist than me) I want to know why. We saw this ice time loyalty to Mike Richards and Stoll last season and it helped sink the Kings. Stoll's ice time with the Rangers has dropped by a full minute from 1:03 last season to :03 this year and his ES ice time has dropped from 15:29 to 13:44 so it didn't take long for the Rangers coach to see something Sutter could not. Richards is out of the NHL, the question is what is the deal with this loyalty to veterans when it is crystal clear Dustin Brown is DONE as a useful NHL player. He no longer hits, his shooting percentage is at a career low 2.8%a and he refuses to go to the middle of the ice because he has become soft.

The Kings will have to retain quite a bit of Brown's cap hit to move him in a trade. Not sure where they are going to find that money.
 
Dustin Brown is getting more PP ice time than last year by 9 seconds, has one assist to show for it (that's one more assist than me) I want to know why. We saw this ice time loyalty to Mike Richards and Stoll last season and it helped sink the Kings. Stoll's ice time with the Rangers has dropped by a full minute from 1:03 last season to :03 this year and his ES ice time has dropped from 15:29 to 13:44 so it didn't take long for the Rangers coach to see something Sutter could not. Richards is out of the NHL, the question is what is the deal with this loyalty to veterans when it is crystal clear Dustin Brown is DONE as a useful NHL player. He no longer hits, his shooting percentage is at a career low 2.8%a and he refuses to go to the middle of the ice because he has become soft.

That's a reason to keep playing him. Things like shooting percentage tend to correct themselves back towards a career average over the course of a season.
 
That's a reason to keep playing him. Things like shooting percentage tend to correct themselves back towards a career average over the course of a season.

I would like to see where the shots are coming from with Brown. He has been robbed a couple of times this season, but I don't remember that happening with great frequency.
 
I would like to see where the shots are coming from with Brown. He has been robbed a couple of times this season, but I don't remember that happening with great frequency.

I think Jason Lewis looked at it. If not, maybe JftC. I'll try to dig it up later but someone reviewed.

He is certainly peppering goalies from anywhere and everywhere but I'd much rather see that than a turnover at the top of the zone. At least get a possession-positive play like a faceoff from it. The Trevor Lewis school of Sutter hockey.
 
I think Jason Lewis looked at it. If not, maybe JftC. I'll try to dig it up later but someone reviewed.

He is certainly peppering goalies from anywhere and everywhere but I'd much rather see that than a turnover at the top of the zone. At least get a possession-positive play like a faceoff from it. The Trevor Lewis school of Sutter hockey.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Brown's shots are coming with no net traffic either.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Brown's shots are coming with no net traffic either.

Kind of depends on who he is playing with, but I get what you are saying. I think he has more opportunities for traffic when he is shooting when he is playing with Lewis and Shore.

When Brown is playing with Kopitar and Gaborik, he needs to provide the traffic.
 
No one really does a good job of going to the net on the Kings. It continues to be one issue that plagues the Kings offensively.

It's why the Kings brass is really high on Mersch.
 
No one really does a good job of going to the net on the Kings. It continues to be one issue that plagues the Kings offensively.

It's why the Kings brass is really high on Mersch.

It's pretty much Lucic and no one else. Brown with Lucic would be effective for sure, but it would be crazy to separate him from Carter.
 
I really wonder what Lucic's next contract will look like. If only there was a way to keep him...

Probably 6 years at 6.5-6.8 million, around there.

Numbers the Kings can't afford, and should not give a 28 year old, that plays Lucic's, style. I don't see Lucic taking a pay-cut to stay in LA.
 
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Probably 6 years at 6.5-6.8 million, around there.

Numbers the Kings can't afford, and should not give a 28 year old, that plays Lucic's, style. I don't see Lucic taking a pay-cut to stay in LA.

only way he get s a lower cap hit to stat in LA is via a Gaborik type deal where he gets 8 years....so not likely a good idea either
 
how would you fit in the $2.75M increase given kopitar will be given a raise

Isn't the Richards hit about $1.6M less next year? I think that will give a little more wiggle room. Maybe make it possible to at least entertain making an offer to Lucic.
 
I have been a big advocate for trading Brown for all of the reasons discussed on this board, but I can see why Lombardi wouldn't trade him at the deadline or in the offseason based on the terms of such a trade. For example, because Brown is a cap dump despite his intangibles (leader of cup winning teams), the Kings may have to retain between 2.5 to 3 million in cap hit for any team to take him. Doing such a deal wouldn't be worth it for the Kings. Sadly, I feel that the only way we can get rid of Brown without retaining salary is to package him with the likes of Pearson or Muzzin, which I wouldn't want to do.
 
I have been a big advocate for trading Brown for all of the reasons discussed on this board, but I can see why Lombardi wouldn't trade him at the deadline or in the offseason based on the terms of such a trade. For example, because Brown is a cap dump despite his intangibles (leader of cup winning teams), the Kings may have to retain between 2.5 to 3 million in cap hit for any team to take him. Doing such a deal wouldn't be worth it for the Kings. Sadly, I feel that the only way we can get rid of Brown without retaining salary is to package him with the likes of Pearson or Muzzin, which I wouldn't want to do.

pretty much...although LA could not retain $3M even id they wanted to as the max retention is 50%.
Retaining anything more than $1.5M would make it not worth it IMO
 
pretty much...although LA could not retain $3M even id they wanted to as the max retention is 50%.
Retaining anything more than $1.5M would make it not worth it IMO

I did not know that. Thanks. I agree with you. I think Brown is worth a $3 million cap hit for the role he currently plays on the Kings. He can still check, gets a lot of shots through, plays with energy, and has been the captain of the two cup winning teams. But a $6 million cap hit is a different story. That requires at least some production (e.g., 20 or more goals a season) to be worth that cap.
 
Brown is pretty much not trade able due to being owed 21 million the next three years. Also Brown holds a NMC(limited). The Kings can only retain 50% max; also the Kings are not going to trade someone like Muzzin, to rid themselves of Brown's contract.

Brown is pretty much stuck being a King for at least this season, and the next.
 
how would you fit in the $2.75M increase given kopitar will be given a raise

Lucic and Kopitar aside, the Kings will have $4.875 in expiring UFA contracts with Lewis, Ehrhoff, McBain and Enroth.

The Kings could also entertain the thought of moving a couple either one of Clifford (owed $1.6M) or Nolan (owed $950K).

Of course, the biggest piece of dead weight on this roster is Dustin Brown and his $5.875M cap hit. I don't know what type of miracle Lombardi will have to work out to move him, but he has to seriously consider doing so at some point if he wishes to retain Lucic.
 
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