Roster Speculation Part XI...$teven $tamko$?? Pony up for PK?

[SabresBillsBuffalo]

Stamkos, a top 5 pick, and 1 other decent free agent, especially a defenseman makes us a playoff team.

If Moulson and Gio hang them up, and we find a suitor for Gorges. We free up so much room that can make us an amazing team fast.

Murray knows this, and if for whatever reason PK becomes available, anything could happen.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Scoring is just a big a need as defense. Considering we have a whopping five guys with double digit goals I'd say adding a premier goal scorer is just as important as adding a top 4 LHD. Especially since we supposedly have 4/6ths of a long term defense in place with RR, Bogo. pysyk and McCabe.

Oh and congrats Stamkos on your 300th career goal two weeks after your 26th birthday. Who needs a 40 goal scorer we have goal prevention forwards like Larsson and high energy guys like D-Lo.The narrative that we don't need another high end forward is laughable.

 

[Yatzhee]

This is confusing. ROR can play wing and take FOs at the same time, lots of wingers do that. They take the FO and then shift over to W on the fly, so how is that going to hurt the team's FO %?? How is he not going to take a FO when he's on the ice, just because he's going to play wing after the FO??

As for Girgs, he's often down low forechecking in the OZ when the puck comes back out, while Eichel is positioned higher. Whether Girgs is first back into the DZ or not, he's good in the DZ and is better at getting the puck back up ice. Not all good board workers are good in the DZ, but Girgs combines a few skills that are a very good fit for Eichel, and that's not common.

Now tho I can relate to some extent. But then again, the staff is using ROR at center, so I think Reinhart stays at wing for the foreseeable future.

As for the Girgs/Eichel fit sentiment. I can't correlate how that translates in to maximizing Eichels offensive output. I realize and stated at the start of bringing this up that it's early on yet. But I just don't see it. I am however, a firm believer that Stamkos could.

 

[joshjull]

I don5 see how Girgs has done anything special to elevate Eichels potential. There have been some connections, but the reality is, Girgs is not a playmaker and he's certainly no finisher.

When Eichel plays with Girgs he produces more offense than he does with anyone else. He also is on the ice for far less goals against. Thats because Girgs does the heavy lifting defensively for that line. It allows Eichel to do the types of things he can't when not with Girgs. Things like lingering in the O-zone longer instead of worrying about being the first one getting back. Things like leaving our zone early. Or getting break from the center's defensive responsibilities in our end. Many times in our end Eichel is up high in the wingers spot with Girgs down low. Obviously that gives Eichel a head start on the attack.

We can get a half dozen bodies to play the half wall and down low for a possession game. And yes, a more dynamic offensive player would help I would imagine.

Possession is about your play in all areas of the ice not just the offensive zone as you reference. That you think its the above helps explain why you don't get Girgs contributions.

As I've said before, I watch the same games you all do. Girgs hasn't impressed me at all this season. The fit just doesn't appear right.

Eichel with Girgs -------> 3.49 GF/60 and 1.74 GA/60 GF% ->66.7%
Eichel away from Girgs -> 1.77 GF/60 and 2.84 GA/60 GF% -> 38.5%


I think the reason Girgs' impact is lost on you is because he isn't making flashy offensive plays that lead to offense for Eichel. What Girgs' defensive game does is basically get the puck back in Eichel's hands better than anyone else on this team. It then allows Jack to be more aggressive and creative offensively. The positive results of that are obvious.

I think you have this completely false idea that Eichel needs to play with a dynamic offensive player to create offense. He IS the dynamic offensive player thats suppose to create offense. He just needs to be freed up to do so. Girgs does that for him.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Scoring is just a big a need as defense. Considering we have a whopping five guys with double digit goals I'd say adding a premier goal scorer is just as important as adding a top 4 LHD. Especially since we supposedly have 4/6ths of a long term defense in place with RR, Bogo. pysyk and McCabe.

Oh and congrats Stamkos on your 300th career goal two weeks after your 26th birthday. Who needs a 40 goal scorer we have goal prevention forwards like Larsson and high energy guys like D-Lo.The narrative that we don't need another high end forward is laughable.

You're severely underrating how much impact good D has on offense. If our D were better at 1) getting puck possession back from the other team and 2) transitioning the puck up the ice, our forwards would be spending a lot more of their time creating scoring chances and would get more goals as a result.

 

[Sabre Dance]

You obviously don't get the connection between Girgs' defensive play and Eichel being freed up offensively.

When Eichel plays with Girgs he produces more offense than he does with anyone else. He also is on the ice for far less goals against. Thats because Girgs does the heavy lifting defensively for that line. It allows Eichel to do the types of things he can't when not with Girgs. Things like lingering in the O-zone longer instead of worrying about being the first one getting back. Things like leaving our zone early. Or getting break from the center's defensive responsibilities in our end. Many times in our end Eichel is up high in the wingers spot with Girgs down low. Obviously that gives Eichel a head start on the attack.




Possession is about your play in all areas of the ice not just the offensive zone as you reference. That you think its the above helps explain why you don't get Girgs contributions.



Eichel with Girgs -------> 3.49 GF/60 and 1.74 GA/60 GF% ->66.7%
Eichel away from Girgs -> 1.77 GF/60 and 2.84 GA/60 GF% -> 38.5%


I think the reason Girgs' impact is lost on you is because he isn't making flashy offensive plays that lead to offense for Eichel. What Girgs' defensive game does is basically get the puck back in Eichel's hands better than anyone else on this team. It then allows Jack to be more aggressive and creative offensively. The positive results of that are obvious.

I think you have this completely false idea that Eichel needs to play with a dynamic offensive player to create offense. He IS the dynamic offensive player thats suppose to create offense. He just needs to be freed up to do so. Girgs does that for him.

Eichel with and away from McGinn?

 

[Beerz]

You're severely underrating how much impact good D has on offense. If our D were better at 1) getting puck possession back from the other team and 2) transitioning the puck up the ice, our forwards would be spending a lot more of their time creating scoring chances and would get more goals as a result.

Don't disagree about impact of good D on offense..but it goes both ways. A Good offense will have a positive impact on your D as well.

 

[sabresfan129103]

I'd do 2 years for McGinn. Maybe even give him a little more per year to keep the term down. 2 years 9 million. It's over payment, but you keep the player and aren't married to them long term.

 

[joshjull]

Putting ROR on the wing is not what's best for the team though.

You do recall the discussion started with talk of the future. We don't know if ROR at center or wing is whats best for the team down the road.

Why willingly decrease your face off win percentage. These silly statements that get made about wingers not being able to take face offs are just that, silly. Common sense dictates you'd want ROR taking them when he's on the ice.

This makes absolutely no sense. He can take face-offs as a winger. So his contributions don't go away.

As for Eichel, Girgs while many love him, has not in point of fact covered Eichel defensively. I'll use yesterday's game as a prime example. Go back and watch that game, Eichel was 1st back checker in play in an overwhelming number. You'll have to show me more than the "Girgs is a defensive safety net" to convince me he's a good fit for Eichel. And mind you, I'm not saying a player of Girgs skill sets couldn't fit, I'm out right saying Girgs himself isn't it. Sorry, but the eyes don't lie when watching these games.

The numbers speak for themselves and they are far more revealing than your eyes.

Eichel with and away from McGinn?

Eichel with McGinn

3.35 GF/60
2.14 GA/60
GF% 61.1%

Away from McGinn

1.75 GF/60
2.76 GA/60
GF% 38.8%


Here is the website with those numbers http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1292&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5

Scoring is just a big a need as defense. Considering we have a whopping five guys with double digit goals I'd say adding a premier goal scorer is just as important as adding a top 4 LHD. Especially since we supposedly have 4/6ths of a long term defense in place with RR, Bogo. pysyk and McCabe.

Oh and congrats Stamkos on your 300th career goal two weeks after your 26th birthday. Who needs a 40 goal scorer we have goal prevention forwards like Larsson and high energy guys like D-Lo.The narrative that we don't need another high end forward is laughable.

The narrative is we need to shore up our defense before worrying about a luxury like Stamkos.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

The narrative is we need to shore up our defense before worrying about a luxury like Stamkos.

How is Stamkos a LUXURY?!?

Are we so well off in goal scoring forwards that Stamkos is considered a luxury, a unneeded piece? Is this a serious train of thought? This franchise finished dead last back to back years (scoring UNDER two gpg both years) and this year have the 3rd worst offense. This team needs goal scorers just as bad as they need defenseman. Having a need at one area doesn't preclude filling your other major need at an other. If Stamkos is a luxury then so is a franchise dman since we already have one of those. Last I checked you need more then one elite forward. And currently we have one sure fire future elite forward, one in the tier below that and another who projects as a 65-70 point scorer in Reinhart but not projected to be an elite franchise forward. How many more 0 or 1 goal games do you want to endure? Especially with our 5th leading goal scorer likely dealt at the deadline and no one in the pipeline to replace him. Or will guys like Larsson (2 goals), Girgs (6 goals) or Ennis (3 goals in 23 games prorated to less then 12 in a full season) able to easily replace not only McGinns goals but improve on our offense this season? The improvement our offense will get from Eichel and Reinhart aren't going to magically take us from bottom 3 to top 3 in gpg. Adding the second best goal scorer in the world does that.

Yes this team needs LHD but they also NEED goal scorers. Simple as that. If the most respected insider in the sport says on national TV that possibly the best UFA in the last decade if not longer is considering Buffalo as a destination then you do whatever it takes. It's funny that people want to bypass Stamkos and then rattle off these dmen names like they would consider Buffalo for sure. Well we are almost positive that Stamkos himself would sign here, we sure as hell don't know if a Goligoski or Campbell or whoever want to sign here.

 

[joshjull]

Don't disagree about impact of good D on offense..but it goes both ways. A Good offense will have a positive impact on your D as well.

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the impact of good defensemen on a teams offense. As in having better dmen will help us produce more offense.

 

[Yatzhee]

When Eichel plays with Girgs he produces more offense than he does with anyone else. He also is on the ice for far less goals against. Thats because Girgs does the heavy lifting defensively for that line. It allows Eichel to do the types of things he can't when not with Girgs. Things like lingering in the O-zone longer instead of worrying about being the first one getting back. Things like leaving our zone early. Or getting break from the center's defensive responsibilities in our end. Many times in our end Eichel is up high in the wingers spot with Girgs down low. Obviously that gives Eichel a head start on the attack.


Possession is about your play in all areas of the ice not just the offensive zone as you reference. That you think its the above helps explain why you don't get Girgs contributions.



Eichel with Girgs -------> 3.49 GF/60 and 1.74 GA/60 GF% ->66.7%
Eichel away from Girgs -> 1.77 GF/60 and 2.84 GA/60 GF% -> 38.5%


I think the reason Girgs' impact is lost on you is because he isn't making flashy offensive plays that lead to offense for Eichel. What Girgs' defensive game does is basically get the puck back in Eichel's hands better than anyone else on this team. It then allows Jack to be more aggressive and creative offensively. The positive results of that are obvious.

I think you have this completely false idea that Eichel needs to play with a dynamic offensive player to create offense. He IS the dynamic offensive player thats suppose to create offense. He just needs to be freed up to do so. Girgs does that for him.

This puts it it in better perspective. I'd still like another offensive player on that line and that's what my eyes see. I believe with better players around him, Eichel will produce more. I don't see that with Girgs. And I happen to agree with many, more O zone time means less D zone time. Those numbers you posted, they don't speak to Eichels maximum offensive potential. It's nice to point out, but it's negligible in the larger picture, yes, that my eyes see game in, game out.

 

[joshjull]

This puts it it in better perspective. I'd still like another offensive player on that line.

I agree. Thats why I was talking about the other winger. There are possible options coming in house with Bailey and Fasching. But obviously they are not guarantees.

 

[Beerz]

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the impact of good defensemen on a teams offense. As in having better dmen will help us produce more offense.

I know. I agreed with him.

 

[Zman5778]

Yes this team needs LHD but they also NEED goal scorers.

Absolutely

Thing is, you can get proven 20 goal scorers on the cheap every offseason. We've got (in theory) our elite scorer in Eichel. We've got some higher-end scoring "depth" in ROR, Sam and EK. We don't need another ELITE level scorer to plug in next to Eichel/ROR/Sam/EK. McGinn-types would do fine.

We NEED quality NHL-level LHDs far more than we need an elite scorer. Right now, the only young NHL-level D in the organization is McCabe. Gorges isn't going to be part of this team when we're ready. Neither is Weber. Guhle likely won't be ready.

We can become a SC contender without Stamkos. We can't become a SC contender without quality LHD.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[joshjull]

I know. I agreed with him.

You did and then made a point that didn't make much sense to me. He was talking about how improving your D (d-corp) helps your offense because dmen play a big role in your teams ability to produce offense. So when you said playing good offense helps your defense. I didn't think you understood what he was talking about.

 

[B U F F A L O]

• Matt Moulson and Cody McCormick to Minnesota for Torrey Mitchell and second-round picks in 2014 and 2016.

The 2014 second-round pick was traded to Los Angeles. Buffalo sent the 2016 second-rounder to Montreal for Josh Gorges.

• Brayden McNabb, Jonathan Parker and second-round picks in 2014 and 2015 to Los Angeles for Nicolas Deslauriers and Hudson Fasching.

McNabb is a top-four defenseman with the Kings. Fasching leads the University of Minnesota in goals as a junior.

With all the available resources to get the facts straight, you'd think hed get it right.

That 2nd round pick was traded to Washington to move back in the draft which netted us Brycen Martin and Eric Cornel.

Very condescending piece though. Makes it seem like everything Murray got back was garbage.

 

[Beerz]

You did and then made a point that didn't make much sense to me. He was talking about how improving your D (d-corp) helps your offense because dmen play a big role in your teams ability to produce offense. So when you said playing good offense helps your defense. I didn't think you understood what he was talking about.

It's not mutually exclusive. I agreed with his statement and added that there is a flip side as well. I understood completely what he was saying.

 

[BananaSquad]

With all the available resources to get the facts straight, you'd think hed get it right.

That 2nd round pick was traded to Washington to move back in the draft which netted us Brycen Martin and Eric Cornel.

Very condescending piece though. Makes it seem like everything Murray got back was garbage.

To be fair, everything hes been shipping out is Garbage as well. Will be the same this trade deadline.

 

[Zip15]

How is Stamkos a LUXURY?!?

Are we so well off in goal scoring forwards that Stamkos is considered a luxury, a unneeded piece? Is this a serious train of thought? This franchise finished dead last back to back years (scoring UNDER two gpg both years) and this year have the 3rd worst offense. This team needs goal scorers just as bad as they need defenseman. Having a need at one area doesn't preclude filling your other major need at an other. If Stamkos is a luxury then so is a franchise dman since we already have one of those. Last I checked you need more then one elite forward. And currently we have one sure fire future elite forward, one in the tier below that and another who projects as a 65-70 point scorer in Reinhart but not projected to be an elite franchise forward. How many more 0 or 1 goal games do you want to endure? Especially with our 5th leading goal scorer likely dealt at the deadline and no one in the pipeline to replace him. Or will guys like Larsson (2 goals), Girgs (6 goals) or Ennis (3 goals in 23 games prorated to less then 12 in a full season) able to easily replace not only McGinns goals but improve on our offense this season? The improvement our offense will get from Eichel and Reinhart aren't going to magically take us from bottom 3 to top 3 in gpg. Adding the second best goal scorer in the world does that.

Yes this team needs LHD but they also NEED goal scorers. Simple as that. If the most respected insider in the sport says on national TV that possibly the best UFA in the last decade if not longer is considering Buffalo as a destination then you do whatever it takes. It's funny that people want to bypass Stamkos and then rattle off these dmen names like they would consider Buffalo for sure. Well we are almost positive that Stamkos himself would sign here, we sure as hell don't know if a Goligoski or Campbell or whoever want to sign here.

You're spending a lot of time on something that is never going to happen. We are "almost positive Stamkos would sign here?" We are? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Who is almost positive of this?

 

[sabrebuild]

I don5 see how Girgs has done anything special to elevate Eichels potential. There have been some connections, but the reality is, Girgs is not a playmaker and he's certainly no finisher. We can get a half dozen bodies to play the half wall and down low for a possession game. And yes, a more dynamic offensive player would help I would imagine.

As I've said before, I watch the same games you all do. Girgs hasn't impressed me at all this season. The fit just doesn't appear right.

Mmmkay.

 

[flashsabre]

How is Stamkos a LUXURY?!?

Are we so well off in goal scoring forwards that Stamkos is considered a luxury, a unneeded piece? Is this a serious train of thought? This franchise finished dead last back to back years (scoring UNDER two gpg both years) and this year have the 3rd worst offense. This team needs goal scorers just as bad as they need defenseman. Having a need at one area doesn't preclude filling your other major need at an other. If Stamkos is a luxury then so is a franchise dman since we already have one of those. Last I checked you need more then one elite forward. And currently we have one sure fire future elite forward, one in the tier below that and another who projects as a 65-70 point scorer in Reinhart but not projected to be an elite franchise forward. How many more 0 or 1 goal games do you want to endure? Especially with our 5th leading goal scorer likely dealt at the deadline and no one in the pipeline to replace him. Or will guys like Larsson (2 goals), Girgs (6 goals) or Ennis (3 goals in 23 games prorated to less then 12 in a full season) able to easily replace not only McGinns goals but improve on our offense this season? The improvement our offense will get from Eichel and Reinhart aren't going to magically take us from bottom 3 to top 3 in gpg. Adding the second best goal scorer in the world does that.

Yes this team needs LHD but they also NEED goal scorers. Simple as that. If the most respected insider in the sport says on national TV that possibly the best UFA in the last decade if not longer is considering Buffalo as a destination then you do whatever it takes. It's funny that people want to bypass Stamkos and then rattle off these dmen names like they would consider Buffalo for sure. Well we are almost positive that Stamkos himself would sign here, we sure as hell don't know if a Goligoski or Campbell or whoever want to sign here.

Not this again. Mckenzie addressed this a couple days later. The panel gave 3 geographic locations close to Markham as possible signing places and McKenzie picked Buffalo. He stated he has no info stating that Stamkos is interested in Buffalo and that Buffalo fans are taking it as insider info. BMack says he has no idea where Stamkos will sign and he has heard nothing to indicate Stamkos is interested in Buffalo.

 

[Dreakon13]

This team hasn't had even an average defense in almost a decade. I won't argue which is more important, bolstering forward or defense, at this point because frankly we need both... but I'd like to see this team with even decent defense night in and night out for once.

I'm almost hoping we somehow manage to win the lottery this year, so we can get a desperate GM to overpay for that coveted 1st overall and get some real young NHL-ready defensive talent coming in. And maybe draft D-heavy this year with any picks coming back/that we still have. I don't think we really have any D worth mentioning after McCabe prospect-wise other than longer term projects like Guhle and Borgen that could easily not pan out. Hell, even McCabe isn't a 100% lock at this point. That's not good if we plan on actually contending in a few years.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I just don't think there's a return comparable to 7 years of team control and cost-efficiency on a top three pick. While the defense is the overall greater need, we're also short one forward given Kane's uselessness in the top 6 (unless Jack and Sam are really, really good) and I like all the dudes at the topmost end of the draft.

Also, I don't want Stamkos as more than a tertiary contingency plan, but I also see a very real scenario of him being by far the best player to change hands between the deadline and the offseason. If that's the case, what do you do?